Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom FROM Religion Foundation Complaint

[Auld Phart]

If you have that much problem with a prayer starting a meeting...

stay in the hall til after the prayer is over.

Why should people attending a meeting "stay in the hall til after the prayer is over"? Why don't the people who want to pray gather in the hall before the meeting starts? The meeting should be secular and anyone who wants some sort of "divine guidance" has ample opportunity to seek it outside the meeting. It should not be included in the agenda of the meeting.

If they find prayer so offensive, they have every right to stay as far away from it as they can.

No one is forcing them to attend the meeting.

 

[Lysistrata]

If you have that much problem with a prayer starting a meeting...

stay in the hall til after the prayer is over.

Why should people attending a meeting "stay in the hall til after the prayer is over"? Why don't the people who want to pray gather in the hall before the meeting starts? The meeting should be secular and anyone who wants some sort of "divine guidance" has ample opportunity to seek it outside the meeting. It should not be included in the agenda of the meeting.

If they find prayer so offensive, they have every right to stay as far away from it as they can.

No one is forcing them to attend the meeting.

These meeting are held to attend to PUBLIC business that affects all regardless of religion. Why can't these people who want to pray so hard do their praying before or after? You seem not to understand the concept.

Who's the guy in the picture? Some guy from your religion? What relevance does your picture have to the public's business? If you like him, go to whatever house of worship he's in and go listen to him. Nobody is stopping you.

 

[Auld Phart]

If you have that much problem with a prayer starting a meeting...

stay in the hall til after the prayer is over.

Why should people attending a meeting "stay in the hall til after the prayer is over"? Why don't the people who want to pray gather in the hall before the meeting starts? The meeting should be secular and anyone who wants some sort of "divine guidance" has ample opportunity to seek it outside the meeting. It should not be included in the agenda of the meeting.

If they find prayer so offensive, they have every right to stay as far away from it as they can.

No one is forcing them to attend the meeting.

These meeting are held to attend to PUBLIC business that affects all regardless of religion. Why can't these people who want to pray so hard do their praying before or after? You seem not to understand the concept.

Who's the guy in the picture? Some guy from your religion? What relevance does your picture have to the public's business? If you like him, go to whatever house of worship he's in and go listen to him. Nobody is stopping you.

Why can't you understand the First Amendment?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; …"

 

[pinqy]

If you have that much problem with a prayer starting a meeting...

stay in the hall til after the prayer is over.

Why should people attending a meeting "stay in the hall til after the prayer is over"? Why don't the people who want to pray gather in the hall before the meeting starts? The meeting should be secular and anyone who wants some sort of "divine guidance" has ample opportunity to seek it outside the meeting. It should not be included in the agenda of the meeting.

If they find prayer so offensive, they have every right to stay as far away from it as they can.

No one is forcing them to attend the meeting.

These meeting are held to attend to PUBLIC business that affects all regardless of religion. Why can't these people who want to pray so hard do their praying before or after? You seem not to understand the concept.

Who's the guy in the picture? Some guy from your religion? What relevance does your picture have to the public's business? If you like him, go to whatever house of worship he's in and go listen to him. Nobody is stopping you.

Why can't you understand the First Amendment?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; …"

And requiring attendance st a prayer as s condition for government business is not “free” exercise.

 

[Auld Phart]

If you have that much problem with a prayer starting a meeting...

stay in the hall til after the prayer is over.

Why should people attending a meeting "stay in the hall til after the prayer is over"? Why don't the people who want to pray gather in the hall before the meeting starts? The meeting should be secular and anyone who wants some sort of "divine guidance" has ample opportunity to seek it outside the meeting. It should not be included in the agenda of the meeting.

If they find prayer so offensive, they have every right to stay as far away from it as they can.

No one is forcing them to attend the meeting.

These meeting are held to attend to PUBLIC business that affects all regardless of religion. Why can't these people who want to pray so hard do their praying before or after? You seem not to understand the concept.

Who's the guy in the picture? Some guy from your religion? What relevance does your picture have to the public's business? If you like him, go to whatever house of worship he's in and go listen to him. Nobody is stopping you.

Why can't you understand the First Amendment?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; …"

And requiring attendance st a prayer as s condition for government business is not “free” exercise.

requiring attendance?


No one is requiring you to be there when the prayer is said.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“Shreveport Police Department will no longer host or promote prayer vigils”

And appropriately so – the Department should be commended for its compliance with the First Amendment.

It’s also encouraging that such issues can be resolved without involving the courts:

“The primary focus of the letter was to address concerns of the prayer vigils rather than ending the chaplain program itself, said Sam Grover, an attorney with the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

The issue was resolved following reports of the city's changes, he said.”

https://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/news/2018/10/18/shreveport-police-no-longer-host-promote-prayer-vigils/1658378002/

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

This is good news IMO.
The SPD is a public funded law enforcement entity, just like 99.999999% of all LE departments are public funded.
'Freedom of religion' is also freedom from religion, IMO.
Freedom of religion is a choice. That choice can be freely acted upon in settings that do NOT require public tax payer dollar$.
It is not the place of government period to support ANY religious activities with public dollars, when participants are utilizing public facilities or property, or when on the clock.
Shreveport Police Department made the right call IMO.

It's good to see my home town make progress; any progress. The city is nothing but a YUGE ghetto but progress, even if small, is still progress.
At least the police department is no longer full of KKK, and not run by a murderer that used to hang out with Mafia types.

The Department made the right call in the opinion of the Framers of the Constitution, so you’re in good company.

 

[Auld Phart]

the Department should be commended for its compliance with the First Amendment.

Compliance?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

This is good news IMO.
The SPD is a public funded law enforcement entity, just like 99.999999% of all LE departments are public funded.
'Freedom of religion' is also freedom from religion, IMO.
Freedom of religion is a choice. That choice can be freely acted upon in settings that do NOT require public tax payer dollar$.
It is not the place of government period to support ANY religious activities with public dollars, when participants are utilizing public facilities or property, or when on the clock.
Shreveport Police Department made the right call IMO.

It's good to see my home town make progress; any progress. The city is nothing but a YUGE ghetto but progress, even if small, is still progress.
At least the police department is no longer full of KKK, and not run by a murderer that used to hang out with Mafia types.

Oh let's take that to the Supreme Court now....shall we?

No need to.

The Department has agreed that its policy is un-Constitutional.

 

[Auld Phart]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

This is good news IMO.
The SPD is a public funded law enforcement entity, just like 99.999999% of all LE departments are public funded.
'Freedom of religion' is also freedom from religion, IMO.
Freedom of religion is a choice. That choice can be freely acted upon in settings that do NOT require public tax payer dollar$.
It is not the place of government period to support ANY religious activities with public dollars, when participants are utilizing public facilities or property, or when on the clock.
Shreveport Police Department made the right call IMO.

It's good to see my home town make progress; any progress. The city is nothing but a YUGE ghetto but progress, even if small, is still progress.
At least the police department is no longer full of KKK, and not run by a murderer that used to hang out with Mafia types.

The Department made the right call in the opinion of the Framers of the Constitution, so you’re in good company.

Did they?

" Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;;"

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

They even want the PD to stop having Chaplains.

What a bunch of assholes.

The city attorney was quoted in the linked article as saying that "doing away with the chaplaincy program would alienate those within the police department who are Christian." Why would this be so? Does the department provide chaplains to everyone, or just Christians of a certain denomination?

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway. The are plenty of community and religious organizations to organize such things as prayer vigils.

Remember that one cannot use the term "religion" with any accuracy because it is an extremely generic term. When people talk about "religion" they must specify which religion and which denomination or group within that religion to which they are referring.

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway.

Why not?

Senate and House both open the session with a prayer.

Have, for the most part, since about 1789

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

You have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’re clearly ignorant of Establishment Clause case law.

 

[Auld Phart]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

They even want the PD to stop having Chaplains.

What a bunch of assholes.

The city attorney was quoted in the linked article as saying that "doing away with the chaplaincy program would alienate those within the police department who are Christian." Why would this be so? Does the department provide chaplains to everyone, or just Christians of a certain denomination?

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway. The are plenty of community and religious organizations to organize such things as prayer vigils.

Remember that one cannot use the term "religion" with any accuracy because it is an extremely generic term. When people talk about "religion" they must specify which religion and which denomination or group within that religion to which they are referring.

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway.

Why not?

Senate and House both open the session with a prayer.

Have, for the most part, since about 1789

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

You have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’re clearly ignorant of Establishment Clause case law.

Sorry bud...

we're talking about the Constitution , not case law.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

They even want the PD to stop having Chaplains.

What a bunch of assholes.

The city attorney was quoted in the linked article as saying that "doing away with the chaplaincy program would alienate those within the police department who are Christian." Why would this be so? Does the department provide chaplains to everyone, or just Christians of a certain denomination?

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway. The are plenty of community and religious organizations to organize such things as prayer vigils.

Remember that one cannot use the term "religion" with any accuracy because it is an extremely generic term. When people talk about "religion" they must specify which religion and which denomination or group within that religion to which they are referring.

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway.

Why not?

Senate and House both open the session with a prayer.

Have, for the most part, since about 1789

Why not? First, the separation of church and state must be observed strictly.

Secondly, these prayers are sectarian, preferring one religion and one denomination over another. Sectarianism is a deep problem within just about every one of the world's religions. Government should have no part in this. Even within the faith of Christianity, there are deep divisions. There always have been. Look how splintered people who are Christians are.

There are people right here on USMB who say that people who do not agree with their sect don't believe in a Supreme Being, are "atheist," (which there is nothing wrong with being in the U.S.), or who say that they don't believe in another person's idea of a Supreme Being are terrible, evil people. There was one guy just this morning who said that people who support Democratic candidates have abandoned "God." This is total horseshit; sectarian slop.

Quote where the Constitution says "separation of Church and State".

The separation of church and state is here in the Constitution:

‘…[the Establishment Clause] was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State."’

Everson v. Board of Education of the Township of Ewing

 

[Auld Phart]

They even want the PD to stop having Chaplains.

What a bunch of assholes.

The city attorney was quoted in the linked article as saying that "doing away with the chaplaincy program would alienate those within the police department who are Christian." Why would this be so? Does the department provide chaplains to everyone, or just Christians of a certain denomination?

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway. The are plenty of community and religious organizations to organize such things as prayer vigils.

Remember that one cannot use the term "religion" with any accuracy because it is an extremely generic term. When people talk about "religion" they must specify which religion and which denomination or group within that religion to which they are referring.

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway.

Why not?

Senate and House both open the session with a prayer.

Have, for the most part, since about 1789

Why not? First, the separation of church and state must be observed strictly.

Secondly, these prayers are sectarian, preferring one religion and one denomination over another. Sectarianism is a deep problem within just about every one of the world's religions. Government should have no part in this. Even within the faith of Christianity, there are deep divisions. There always have been. Look how splintered people who are Christians are.

There are people right here on USMB who say that people who do not agree with their sect don't believe in a Supreme Being, are "atheist," (which there is nothing wrong with being in the U.S.), or who say that they don't believe in another person's idea of a Supreme Being are terrible, evil people. There was one guy just this morning who said that people who support Democratic candidates have abandoned "God." This is total horseshit; sectarian slop.

Quote where the Constitution says "separation of Church and State".

The separation of church and state is here in the Constitution:

‘…[the Establishment Clause] was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State."’

Everson v. Board of Education of the Township of Ewing

The separation of church and state is here in the Constitution:

What section of the Constitution is Separation of Church and State in?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

you feel alienated by a prayer being said at a meeting?

Get up, stomp out noisily, and return when the prayer is over.

Or put your earbuds in, and play your music loud enough to drown it out.

Let them KNOW how you feel.

Shit! Are you seriously. I should have to risk arrest as a disorderly person?

 

[Auld Phart]

you feel alienated by a prayer being said at a meeting?

Get up, stomp out noisily, and return when the prayer is over.

Or put your earbuds in, and play your music loud enough to drown it out.

Let them KNOW how you feel.

Shit! Are you seriously. I should have to risk arrest as a disorderly person?

Know a better way to make your voice heard?

Whining on a message board ain't going to get shit done

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

School prayer?

they allow Christians to pray in school now?

I thought only Muslims were allowed that privilege.

No, and I think that you know that prayer organized and let by the school is not allowed. I mentioned that as an example of how religion sanctioned by government can and does alienate others

As for your little Muslim dig -any group can have their own private pray session on campus and no one is given favoritism

 

[Auld Phart]

As for your little Muslim dig -any group can have their own private pray session on campus and no one is given favoritism

Muslims are allowed to gather and pray several times a day.

Christians, Jews, etc are not given that option.

Bible study, etc, has been removed from campus, for the most part.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion...."

Hey deceitful snowflake, why us it that you do not want to post the ENTIRE thing?


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Bwuhahaha

That's right. And it includes my free exercise as well as yours. Your religion cannot prohibit me from my right to free exercise, including my right to NOT BE SUBJECTED to the tenants of your religion that conflicts with my beliefs or lack there of, as per the real life examples that I gave above, that you people can't actually deal with.

You have no right "not to be subjected". The Constitution only guarantees there will be no State religion. It does not promise to strip religion from all public life.

Wow, the utter ignorance is astounding.

Given your ignorance, you’re in no position to comment.

The Establishment Clause prohibits more than just the establishment of a state religion.

It also prohibits government promotion of religion absent a secular legislative purpose, it prohibits government from promoting religious doctrine and dogma as its primary intent, and it prohibits excessive government entanglement with religion. (Lemon v. Kurtzman)

The Establishment Clause in fact recognizes the right of citizens to be free from religion, where citizens cannot be compelled to follow religious doctrine and dogma through force of law.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Blue laws?

Haven't seen them enacted for years, (actually decades)

If I remember correctly, Congress got rid of them.


Still, the only thing I'm seeing from you, is a major case of butthurt, because you can't get your way because you fear an invisible entity

Just because you're unaware of blue laws, it does not mean that they don't still exist. There is a shore town in New Jersey where you are not allowed on the beach before noon on Sunday because you're supposed to be in church. In any case, I offered that as yet another way that Religion can be imposed on people through government.

I noticed that you chose not to deal with the examples of contraception and same sex marriage that I gave.