Looking for reasonable explanations for the Paluxy River footprints.

[Weatherman2020]

I can sure tell if something is as old as everything around it.

Like all the other evidence shown in this thread, you toss it out without justification simply because it threatens what they tell you to parrot.

LOL, so I should ignore all those respected and credentialed scientists in favor of a guy who can touch something and tell how old it is. 'K.

I'm saying take no ones word for anything. Use an open mind. Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions. Don't start with dinosaurs were 70 million years ago, that's a bias.

There is no threat to my faith with a billion year old earth. But my interest in geology and archeology has me outside the box of what they teach in schools.

Claiming dinosaurs were 70 million years ago is not a bias. It is supported by substantial scientific evidence
There is no evidence of man being around even one million years ago

How old that fossil?
70 million years
How do you know that?
The rocks there are that old.
How do you know the rocks are that old?
It has a 70 million year old fossil in it.

You can also carbon date, you can look at the formation of rock strata to determine the era the fossil was formed in

Regardless, it is not even close
Man was not around when the dinosaurs were. There were some simple mammals but it would be millions of years after the last of the dinosaurs before the earliest humans evolved

You can't carbon date rocks. And as I've shown earlier, the laying of rocks exhibit traits of rapid formation.

 

[PredFan]

LOL, I don't think you got out too far from that box if you're thinking mankind co-existed with dinos. Here are the facts. FACTS. There is something called the K-T Boundary, it is a thin layer of sediment that exists all around the world that is dated by scientists to be about 65 million years old. Below that layer you find dino fossils, above that layer you don't. NOT ONE. The conclusion drawn by that fact is that dinosaurs went extinct about 65 million years ago. That is not a bias, that is as close to a fact as you're ever going to get. Dispute it all you want, but I got facts and fossils on my side and the scientific community too; let me know when you find a dinosaur fossil that dates to a time when humans walked the planet. A debunked footprint or carving doesn't stack up to any real scientific evidence that shows otherwise.

And the OP, Cambodia nor Estonia are debunked by anyone.

Sure they are, you just don't want to accept reality. Which is actually fine by me, BTW. I gave you links that point out the issues with the footprint and the carvings. So - do you believe mankind co-existed with dinos?

Your links offered no evidence, only wild speculation. And I only believe what evidence points to.

Was my question too difficult to understand? Do you believe mankind co-existed with dinos?

I don't know.

But I do know no one has evidence that invalidates the OP, Cambodia or Estonia.

Yes they do and it has already been presented to you. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[Weatherman2020]

LOL, so I should ignore all those respected and credentialed scientists in favor of a guy who can touch something and tell how old it is. 'K.

I'm saying take no ones word for anything. Use an open mind. Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions. Don't start with dinosaurs were 70 million years ago, that's a bias.

There is no threat to my faith with a billion year old earth. But my interest in geology and archeology has me outside the box of what they teach in schools.

LOL, I don't think you got out too far from that box if you're thinking mankind co-existed with dinos. Here are the facts. FACTS. There is something called the K-T Boundary, it is a thin layer of sediment that exists all around the world that is dated by scientists to be about 65 million years old. Below that layer you find dino fossils, above that layer you don't. NOT ONE. The conclusion drawn by that fact is that dinosaurs went extinct about 65 million years ago. That is not a bias, that is as close to a fact as you're ever going to get. Dispute it all you want, but I got facts and fossils on my side and the scientific community too; let me know when you find a dinosaur fossil that dates to a time when humans walked the planet. A debunked footprint or carving doesn't stack up to any real scientific evidence that shows otherwise.

The footprints are proven fake and the drawings, if not fake, are drawings of the animals that early humans found. Likely they found fossils all the time. Probably where the stories of dragons and sea monsters came from.

Cavemen found fossils of dinosaurs?

I thought you said no land creature had intact fossils.

Dude please. A single bone is a fossil, and give me one reason why primitive man couldn't find an intact dinosaur skeleton.

Because all large fossils are found scattered? Duh.

 

[Weatherman2020]

3 guesses at what the O in H2O stands for.

You actually think that the the bound oxygen in water causes rust?

Do you understand how rust forms? An unbound oxygen molecule binds to the iron molecule. It cannot do that if it is already bound to hydrogen.

The reason iron will rust in water is because there is unbound oxygen in water. That's how fish live.

No unbound oxygen in a T. rex? This keeps getting better.

Actually, I just edited that because I mixed things up. The whole water molecule binds to iron, causing rust. You threw me off with the erroneous statement that it was the O in H2O that caused it.

Here's the deal. If the dinosaur lived in a vety arid environment, it's corpse would have been dessicated in no time at all. No water, no rust. You also do realize that an iron molecule isn't destroyed when it rusts right?

T. rex in deserts? Keep spinning.

To say iron lets tissue exist for 70 million years is laughable.

First answer; yes.

Second answer; something preserved it.

What were reptiles the sizes of busses eating in your desert?

 

[PredFan]

I'm saying take no ones word for anything. Use an open mind. Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions. Don't start with dinosaurs were 70 million years ago, that's a bias.

There is no threat to my faith with a billion year old earth. But my interest in geology and archeology has me outside the box of what they teach in schools.

LOL, I don't think you got out too far from that box if you're thinking mankind co-existed with dinos. Here are the facts. FACTS. There is something called the K-T Boundary, it is a thin layer of sediment that exists all around the world that is dated by scientists to be about 65 million years old. Below that layer you find dino fossils, above that layer you don't. NOT ONE. The conclusion drawn by that fact is that dinosaurs went extinct about 65 million years ago. That is not a bias, that is as close to a fact as you're ever going to get. Dispute it all you want, but I got facts and fossils on my side and the scientific community too; let me know when you find a dinosaur fossil that dates to a time when humans walked the planet. A debunked footprint or carving doesn't stack up to any real scientific evidence that shows otherwise.

The footprints are proven fake and the drawings, if not fake, are drawings of the animals that early humans found. Likely they found fossils all the time. Probably where the stories of dragons and sea monsters came from.

Cavemen found fossils of dinosaurs?

I thought you said no land creature had intact fossils.

Dude please. A single bone is a fossil, and give me one reason why primitive man couldn't find an intact dinosaur skeleton.

Because all large fossils are found scattered? Duh.

Again, entirely untrue. Even the ones that are scattered, they are scattered merely feet away.

 

[PredFan]

You actually think that the the bound oxygen in water causes rust?

Do you understand how rust forms? An unbound oxygen molecule binds to the iron molecule. It cannot do that if it is already bound to hydrogen.

The reason iron will rust in water is because there is unbound oxygen in water. That's how fish live.

No unbound oxygen in a T. rex? This keeps getting better.

Actually, I just edited that because I mixed things up. The whole water molecule binds to iron, causing rust. You threw me off with the erroneous statement that it was the O in H2O that caused it.

Here's the deal. If the dinosaur lived in a vety arid environment, it's corpse would have been dessicated in no time at all. No water, no rust. You also do realize that an iron molecule isn't destroyed when it rusts right?

T. rex in deserts? Keep spinning.

To say iron lets tissue exist for 70 million years is laughable.

First answer; yes.

Second answer; something preserved it.

What were reptiles the sizes of busses eating in your desert?

In the case of T-Rex, other dinosaurs.

 

[Weatherman2020]

LOL, I don't think you got out too far from that box if you're thinking mankind co-existed with dinos. Here are the facts. FACTS. There is something called the K-T Boundary, it is a thin layer of sediment that exists all around the world that is dated by scientists to be about 65 million years old. Below that layer you find dino fossils, above that layer you don't. NOT ONE. The conclusion drawn by that fact is that dinosaurs went extinct about 65 million years ago. That is not a bias, that is as close to a fact as you're ever going to get. Dispute it all you want, but I got facts and fossils on my side and the scientific community too; let me know when you find a dinosaur fossil that dates to a time when humans walked the planet. A debunked footprint or carving doesn't stack up to any real scientific evidence that shows otherwise.

The footprints are proven fake and the drawings, if not fake, are drawings of the animals that early humans found. Likely they found fossils all the time. Probably where the stories of dragons and sea monsters came from.

Cavemen found fossils of dinosaurs?

I thought you said no land creature had intact fossils.

Dude please. A single bone is a fossil, and give me one reason why primitive man couldn't find an intact dinosaur skeleton.

Because all large fossils are found scattered? Duh.

Again, entirely untrue. Even the ones that are scattered, they are scattered merely feet away.

Go draw me what this is.

 

[Weatherman2020]

No unbound oxygen in a T. rex? This keeps getting better.

Actually, I just edited that because I mixed things up. The whole water molecule binds to iron, causing rust. You threw me off with the erroneous statement that it was the O in H2O that caused it.

Here's the deal. If the dinosaur lived in a vety arid environment, it's corpse would have been dessicated in no time at all. No water, no rust. You also do realize that an iron molecule isn't destroyed when it rusts right?

T. rex in deserts? Keep spinning.

To say iron lets tissue exist for 70 million years is laughable.

First answer; yes.

Second answer; something preserved it.

What were reptiles the sizes of busses eating in your desert?

In the case of T-Rex, other dinosaurs.

And what were they eating in your desert?

Keep digging

 

[Darkwind]

Or how soft tissue was found in dinosaur bones.

Yeah, I have seen that. A person at my club is really a fundamentalist. I mean he is a good guy. We see eye to eye about a lot of stuff, but I am sorry. The earth is more than 6,000 or 10,000 years old. To believe that it is only that old, imo is a bit childish.

For years I have asked this of many preachers. From Rabbis to evangelical ministers. That is this. I have to say this before the question. There are two stories of creation. First chapter and second chapter of Genesis. The first chapter it is pretty basic. 7 days the earth was created. Of course the night and day was not separated till the 5th day....but that is another issue. The second chapter refers to the SIXTH DAY. It really does not stop referring to the SIXTH DAY.

The question:

At what point does the bible stop referring to the SIXTH DAY? It describes man and the fall of man. It describes "the tree." Of course that was a tree of KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL. Not an apple tree, like we like to see in countless paintings. I wonder what a tree knowledge of good and evil would look like.

Anyway, the bible does NOT STOP referring to the SIXTH DAY. Oh, the first chapter goes into the 7th day being the day of rest. Rather quick and then it really goes into the SIXTH DAY and it never stops referring to the 6th day. From the story of Adam and Eve, to Abraham, to Moses, to Jesus, and all the way through to revelation.

It does say something in some places where WE SHALL enter into the Spirits rest.

Leads me to the next questions.

Are we still within the 6th day? Has the day of rest come yet? Is that judgement day?

I know I am trying to be all logical with my human pea brain here. I do know many religious notions have been proven absurdly wrong over the years. We can do the easy thing and blame the "Catholic Church" which is rather easy. Of course that is more of a temptation than anything else. Rather a cop out.

The point is fundamentalist thinking has been quite damaging, no matter what religion. Actually, no matter what system of beliefs, which includes atheism.

I guess these questions have perplexed me over the years.

This poses some interesting thoughts.

I've always been of the belief that when God created the universe that God understood that in order for this place to exist (place being the universe, not just Earth), that there would have to be structure, and rules, and a way for it to perpetuate itself. Thus we have the hard sciences (which is just a study of the structure of the Universe), and how that structure worked (theories on matter, energy, and a host of other mathematical theories), and a means by which the life in this Universe can adapt to change, because it is evident to anyone with a brain that the universe is dynamic and changing.

The creation theory in the Bible then suggests that each of the days of creation would be divided up based upon how long we can measure it happening. The big bang and its expansion outward would be part of the first day, the second day would be the formations of stars and the creation of specific elements necessary for life to begin. The third day, etc..

We measure the term 'day' to mean a 24-hour cycle, but really, would that be how a deity would measure a day? Or is the entire concept of a day in the bible just a way for our limited understanding of the universe to cope with the magnitude of these scales?

As for the footprint next to the Dinosaur....everyone knows it is a footprint of Jean Luc Picard when he was stranded in the past hunting Borg.....

 

[PredFan]

The footprints are proven fake and the drawings, if not fake, are drawings of the animals that early humans found. Likely they found fossils all the time. Probably where the stories of dragons and sea monsters came from.

Cavemen found fossils of dinosaurs?

I thought you said no land creature had intact fossils.

Dude please. A single bone is a fossil, and give me one reason why primitive man couldn't find an intact dinosaur skeleton.

Because all large fossils are found scattered? Duh.

Again, entirely untrue. Even the ones that are scattered, they are scattered merely feet away.

Go draw me what this is.
View attachment 142978

Why? What does that have to do with anything? Do you think that all dinosaur bones have to be excavated from rock? Do you think that primitive man could create the carving you point to in that church but not dig something out of the rock?

You can walk in a place called Dinosaur Natuonal Monument and look for fossils. There's a good chance that if you have a sharp eye, you will see one just lying there, perhaps partially buried. It is illegal to take it but you can report its location. The thing is, they are right there.

Cope and Marsh in the late 1800s found bones all over the place in Montana and many of them required no serious digging.

 

[Theowl32]

Sure they are, you just don't want to accept reality. Which is actually fine by me, BTW. I gave you links that point out the issues with the footprint and the carvings. So - do you believe mankind co-existed with dinos?

Your links offered no evidence, only wild speculation. And I only believe what evidence points to.

Was my question too difficult to understand? Do you believe mankind co-existed with dinos?

I don't know.

But I do know no one has evidence that invalidates the OP, Cambodia or Estonia.

Just seems rather absurd that we would not have more absolute conclusive evidence other than fossilized footprints, one carving in Cambodia and a painting in Estonia.

Wouldn't there be all sorts of stuff from people everywhere?

It seems absurd.

Why does every culture have stories about dragons?

Doesn't have to be a fire breathing Hollywood version.

And you forgot Job.

I think there is always some truth within stories of folklore. Meaning, Greek Mythology has a cyclops in the Odyssey. Now, looking at the skull of a woolly mammoth...

You can see how stories of a cyclops may be told here or there. If, they came across the skull of one, which was entirely PROBABLE.

As far as fire breathing flying dragons in every culture, I am thinking that every single person in every culture witnessed shooting stars. In a world where most people believed the world was flat, it is not hard to imagine them thinking that is what they are seeing.

The story in Job about a Leviathan.....most believe it is referring to a crocodile. Not a "dragon." Certainly not T Rex. I mean lets be grown up about this. Please.

 

[PredFan]

Actually, I just edited that because I mixed things up. The whole water molecule binds to iron, causing rust. You threw me off with the erroneous statement that it was the O in H2O that caused it.

Here's the deal. If the dinosaur lived in a vety arid environment, it's corpse would have been dessicated in no time at all. No water, no rust. You also do realize that an iron molecule isn't destroyed when it rusts right?

T. rex in deserts? Keep spinning.

To say iron lets tissue exist for 70 million years is laughable.

First answer; yes.

Second answer; something preserved it.

What were reptiles the sizes of busses eating in your desert?

In the case of T-Rex, other dinosaurs.

And what were they eating in your desert?

Keep digging

You think that all deserts look like the Sahara? They don't. But many had to migrate long distances to find food. It is theorized that, like birds, they migrated long distances instinctively.

The fact that they did so is proven.

Trying to get back to the soft tissue that was found in the T-Rex, there could have been many other reasons as well. Ever heard of peat bogs?

Just like the conditions that are required to preserve bones and turn them into fossils, the conditions needed to preserve soft tissue are rarely achieved. That doesn't mean it can't happen.

 

[Weatherman2020]

T. rex in deserts? Keep spinning.

To say iron lets tissue exist for 70 million years is laughable.

First answer; yes.

Second answer; something preserved it.

What were reptiles the sizes of busses eating in your desert?

In the case of T-Rex, other dinosaurs.

And what were they eating in your desert?

Keep digging

You think that all deserts look like the Sahara? They don't. But many had to migrate long distances to find food. It is theorized that, like birds, they migrated long distances instinctively.

The fact that they did so is proven.

Trying to get back to the soft tissue that was found in the T-Rex, there could have been many other reasons as well. Ever heard of peat bogs?

Just like the conditions that are required to preserve bones and turn them into fossils, the conditions needed to preserve soft tissue are rarely achieved. That doesn't mean it can't happen.

You made up that the T Rex was in a desert so dry the tissue survived 70 million years. Stop giving lame excuses that requires you to flip flop.

 

[Darkwind]

One other aspect they always conveniently overlook: All of the intact fossil finds. Put a carcass out in a field. A year later you will not find anything there. Bones will be scattered all over from the animals devouring it. An intact fossil requires immediate burial in mud. You know, something like a big flood would do.

Tar pits.

 

[PredFan]

First answer; yes.

Second answer; something preserved it.

What were reptiles the sizes of busses eating in your desert?

In the case of T-Rex, other dinosaurs.

And what were they eating in your desert?

Keep digging

You think that all deserts look like the Sahara? They don't. But many had to migrate long distances to find food. It is theorized that, like birds, they migrated long distances instinctively.

The fact that they did so is proven.

Trying to get back to the soft tissue that was found in the T-Rex, there could have been many other reasons as well. Ever heard of peat bogs?

Just like the conditions that are required to preserve bones and turn them into fossils, the conditions needed to preserve soft tissue are rarely achieved. That doesn't mean it can't happen.

You made up that the T Rex was in a desert so dry the tissue survived 70 million years. Stop giving lame excuses that requires you to flip flop.

Please. You are arguing like a liberal. I gave you ONE way it could have happened and I was right. Now the discussion is drifting too far from the point and is getting annoying. So I gave you another example. If I had time to research it I could likely come up with more. The point is that your statement that it can't happen, is easily debunked.

 

[PredFan]

One other aspect they always conveniently overlook: All of the intact fossil finds. Put a carcass out in a field. A year later you will not find anything there. Bones will be scattered all over from the animals devouring it. An intact fossil requires immediate burial in mud. You know, something like a big flood would do.

Tar pits.

And there are many other ways as well.

 

[Theowl32]

T. rex in deserts? Keep spinning.

To say iron lets tissue exist for 70 million years is laughable.

First answer; yes.

Second answer; something preserved it.

What were reptiles the sizes of busses eating in your desert?

In the case of T-Rex, other dinosaurs.

And what were they eating in your desert?

Keep digging

You think that all deserts look like the Sahara? They don't. But many had to migrate long distances to find food. It is theorized that, like birds, they migrated long distances instinctively.

The fact that they did so is proven.

Trying to get back to the soft tissue that was found in the T-Rex, there could have been many other reasons as well. Ever heard of peat bogs?

Just like the conditions that are required to preserve bones and turn them into fossils, the conditions needed to preserve soft tissue are rarely achieved. That doesn't mean it can't happen.

Technically the largest desert in the world is....Antarctica. Just one of those little interesting facts.

If we had an honest look at this too. If we went back in time to any period and tried to tell people about the future, you would more than likely be burned at the stake as a heretic.

Imagine for instance trying to tell devout people that one day we would be able to see people on the other side of the planet in the palm of your hand. Imagine if you told people we would be able to fly around the world. Around the world? The world is not round, right?

Imagine all of that and we know how people would stone you to death. Granted, not saying "Christians."

What I am saying is for me there is not a reason to be mutually exclusive about the issue of evolution. Does it sound like I am playing both sides? Maybe. Then again I cannot really speak to things I am not an expert in.

Oh, I have heard experts talk about these footprints issue. I listen to them and they had compelling things to say. It is just a little too much for me to stomach that humans shared the planet with dinosaurs and we have very little documented evidence that they lived with side by side with us.

As I said, I need more than ancient footprints and ONE carving in Cambodia and stories of folklore that can be explained.

To me the notion of evolution is actual proof of intelligent design. We all have this paradigm of how that intelligence reveals itself. I believe life (just to reiterate) is far more than things we can all just measure.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Your links offered no evidence, only wild speculation. And I only believe what evidence points to.

Was my question too difficult to understand? Do you believe mankind co-existed with dinos?

I don't know.

But I do know no one has evidence that invalidates the OP, Cambodia or Estonia.

Just seems rather absurd that we would not have more absolute conclusive evidence other than fossilized footprints, one carving in Cambodia and a painting in Estonia.

Wouldn't there be all sorts of stuff from people everywhere?

It seems absurd.

Why does every culture have stories about dragons?

Doesn't have to be a fire breathing Hollywood version.

And you forgot Job.

I think there is always some truth within stories of folklore. Meaning, Greek Mythology has a cyclops in the Odyssey. Now, looking at the skull of a woolly mammoth...

You can see how stories of a cyclops may be told here or there. If, they came across the skull of one, which was entirely PROBABLE.

As far as fire breathing flying dragons in every culture, I am thinking that every single person in every culture witnessed shooting stars. In a world where most people believed the world was flat, it is not hard to imagine them thinking that is what they are seeing.

The story in Job about a Leviathan.....most believe it is referring to a crocodile. Not a "dragon." Certainly not T Rex. I mean lets be grown up about this. Please.

Says it eats grass. I know of no croc that eats grass.

But my Estonia pic does show them eating grass.

 

[rightwinger]

LOL, so I should ignore all those respected and credentialed scientists in favor of a guy who can touch something and tell how old it is. 'K.

I'm saying take no ones word for anything. Use an open mind. Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions. Don't start with dinosaurs were 70 million years ago, that's a bias.

There is no threat to my faith with a billion year old earth. But my interest in geology and archeology has me outside the box of what they teach in schools.

Claiming dinosaurs were 70 million years ago is not a bias. It is supported by substantial scientific evidence
There is no evidence of man being around even one million years ago

How old that fossil?
70 million years
How do you know that?
The rocks there are that old.
How do you know the rocks are that old?
It has a 70 million year old fossil in it.

You can also carbon date, you can look at the formation of rock strata to determine the era the fossil was formed in

Regardless, it is not even close
Man was not around when the dinosaurs were. There were some simple mammals but it would be millions of years after the last of the dinosaurs before the earliest humans evolved

You can't carbon date rocks. And as I've shown earlier, the laying of rocks exhibit traits of rapid formation.

Look

If we were talking about a million years here or there, I'd indulge your silly fantasies. But when we are talking about over 50 million years between dinosaurs and humans......I'm not playing your games

 

[Darkwind]

You also have to understand that any particular species, T-Rex say, roamed the earth for tens of thousands of years. That's a lot of dead T-Rexes. Yet what do we have, like six complete skeletons?

How is that hard to believe?

I didnt think we had any. We have "sue" which is like 80 or 85% complete. The others are like 50 and 60%. Maybe i am wrong?

I'm going fossil hunting next week. I will likely find dozens of intact fossils.

I have read about marine fossils found on MT Everest.

Not sure if that is an actual example from Everest, but I believe there are ones like that.

If it is true that fossils of MARINE ANIMALS are on Everest, which is around 30K feet high, how long did the Himalayas take to rise so high out of sea level?

Just curious.

There are two possibilities.
It took hundreds of billions of years for the continents to press it up.
Or during the flood the earth was reformed.

Well, the hundreds of billions comment is you being sarcastic. I get that.

The flood came after Moses, right? Obviously after Abraham. Were the continents one continent during the time of Pharoah and Moses?

Did the bible refer to how long the actual flood lasted? There were no mountain ranges before the flood? How long does it take for the mountain ranges to be formed?

I guess a blink of an eye or something. I don't know. I am confused.

During the biblical era, the continents were pretty close to what they are now. Pangea is 100's of millions of years in the past.

http://www.iris.edu/hq/files/programs/education_and_outreach/aotm/14/1.GPS_Background.pdf