Loading The Nagasaki Bomb

[Ringel05]

Bottomline = the bomb saved aprox 50,000 american lives!!!and $$$$$$$$$$$

Bottom line...The Bomb incinerated tens of thousand Japanese civilians. Harry Truman went on to kill about 50,000 Americans in a futile war in Korea.

Thankfully those of use who are conversant with all the historical events surrounding the cause and prosecution of the Korean Conflict know it's much more complicated than you portray not to mention all the historical facts surrounding the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan.

 

[martybegan]

Gee, only 50,000 killed in the initial blast. How many died from radioactive poisoning? The dirty little secret is that Japan was a defeated enemy by the time the Bombs were dropped. Truman was a clueless bean counter former senator and crazy elements of the military and the so-called scientific community were dying to test their invention on real people. The winners get to write the history books and propaganda for a half century has convinced Americans that incinerating civilians was a legitimate military strategy.

The Japansese Army did not want to surrender. They wanted an armistice and a peace treaty.

That wasn't going to happen.

Why are we so clueless about history? Because the mainstream media writes the history books and they have a political agenda? The Japanese were desperate for surrender terms but timid Harry Truman went along with the FDR mandate of unconditional surrender even though the former Missouri clothing store owner had no clue about what "unconditional surrender" entailed. The Japanese were so desperate that they tried to negotiate with the monster Stalin for reasonable terms of surrender while Truman refused to negotiate. The ironic hangup was whether the US would execute the Japanese Emperor and after the Bombs were dropped the MacArthur government preserved the emperor anyway.

Why would we give the Japanese something we didn't give to the Germans? The terms the Japanese army wanted were not reasonable.

and don't pull that "clueless" crap with me. I'm as well read on WWII history than most people, save actual historians.

And preserving the emperor was the ONLY condition we let them have, and he was turned into a figurehead.

 

[martybegan]

Bottomline = the bomb saved aprox 50,000 american lives!!!and $$$$$$$$$$$

Bottom line...The Bomb incinerated tens of thousand Japanese civilians. Harry Truman went on to kill about 50,000 Americans in a futile war in Korea.

We had already incinerated tens of thousands of Japanese AND German Citizens using plain old explosives and incindiaries.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

By the time we used the atomic bombs, Japan was already in the process of trying to surrender. But we made a big deal about "unconditional surrender" so the bombs were like hitting a boxer who's already fallen, but then tries to get back up and dropping a cement mixer on him. Wasn't necessary, but was expediant. It only forced the Japanese to give up on 'conditional surrender.'

As we only learned in teh decades that followed with atmosphereic testing, the altitude you detonate a nuclear weapon determines how effective it is. Too low, or on the ground much of the shockwave is absorbed/lost right into the earth. Too high and the shockwave doesn't inflict maximum damage. The sweet spot depends on the yield.

Aiming points and even low-yield atomic class weapons is kinda laughable. Doesn't matter where it goes off, especially nowadays when so much bad info has everyone wetting themselves at the idea of another being used in anger. Mushroom cloud rising over open ocean with just fish being killed will have the exact same result vaporizing a city will insofar as the panic that'd ensue. Actually hitting any part of the city had the same result an on-target blast woulda. The point wasn't so much to inflict more damage but to bluff them into thinking we had more we could use. The bluff worked, but we'd been making many many more now that we knew we could and how. If the war had dragged on, we'd have had more to use.

Japan NEVER offered to surrender. What they offered was to return to November 1941 borders. I have source documents that prove this and prove that japan ONLY surrendered because of the 2nd atomic attack when the Emperor intervened against the ruling Government run by the Army. Further those documents prove the Army tried to run a Coup against their living God Emperor to continue the war.

The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II: A Collection of Primary Sources

Claiming that an offer to return to the November 1941 Borders is an offer to surrender is ridiculous. Further Japan INSISTED that no foreign troops would be allowed in Japan and that they would not disarm.

Didn't say they'd offered to surrender, said they were trying to. The military didn't want to, but the civilian leaders did.

 

[Ringel05]

By the time we used the atomic bombs, Japan was already in the process of trying to surrender. But we made a big deal about "unconditional surrender" so the bombs were like hitting a boxer who's already fallen, but then tries to get back up and dropping a cement mixer on him. Wasn't necessary, but was expediant. It only forced the Japanese to give up on 'conditional surrender.'

As we only learned in teh decades that followed with atmosphereic testing, the altitude you detonate a nuclear weapon determines how effective it is. Too low, or on the ground much of the shockwave is absorbed/lost right into the earth. Too high and the shockwave doesn't inflict maximum damage. The sweet spot depends on the yield.

Aiming points and even low-yield atomic class weapons is kinda laughable. Doesn't matter where it goes off, especially nowadays when so much bad info has everyone wetting themselves at the idea of another being used in anger. Mushroom cloud rising over open ocean with just fish being killed will have the exact same result vaporizing a city will insofar as the panic that'd ensue. Actually hitting any part of the city had the same result an on-target blast woulda. The point wasn't so much to inflict more damage but to bluff them into thinking we had more we could use. The bluff worked, but we'd been making many many more now that we knew we could and how. If the war had dragged on, we'd have had more to use.

Japan NEVER offered to surrender. What they offered was to return to November 1941 borders. I have source documents that prove this and prove that japan ONLY surrendered because of the 2nd atomic attack when the Emperor intervened against the ruling Government run by the Army. Further those documents prove the Army tried to run a Coup against their living God Emperor to continue the war.

The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II: A Collection of Primary Sources

Claiming that an offer to return to the November 1941 Borders is an offer to surrender is ridiculous. Further Japan INSISTED that no foreign troops would be allowed in Japan and that they would not disarm.

Didn't say they'd offered to surrender, said they were trying to. The military didn't want to, but the civilian leaders did.

And again it was the military hardliners who were in control not the civilian leaders.

 

[martybegan]

By the time we used the atomic bombs, Japan was already in the process of trying to surrender. But we made a big deal about "unconditional surrender" so the bombs were like hitting a boxer who's already fallen, but then tries to get back up and dropping a cement mixer on him. Wasn't necessary, but was expediant. It only forced the Japanese to give up on 'conditional surrender.'

As we only learned in teh decades that followed with atmosphereic testing, the altitude you detonate a nuclear weapon determines how effective it is. Too low, or on the ground much of the shockwave is absorbed/lost right into the earth. Too high and the shockwave doesn't inflict maximum damage. The sweet spot depends on the yield.

Aiming points and even low-yield atomic class weapons is kinda laughable. Doesn't matter where it goes off, especially nowadays when so much bad info has everyone wetting themselves at the idea of another being used in anger. Mushroom cloud rising over open ocean with just fish being killed will have the exact same result vaporizing a city will insofar as the panic that'd ensue. Actually hitting any part of the city had the same result an on-target blast woulda. The point wasn't so much to inflict more damage but to bluff them into thinking we had more we could use. The bluff worked, but we'd been making many many more now that we knew we could and how. If the war had dragged on, we'd have had more to use.

Japan NEVER offered to surrender. What they offered was to return to November 1941 borders. I have source documents that prove this and prove that japan ONLY surrendered because of the 2nd atomic attack when the Emperor intervened against the ruling Government run by the Army. Further those documents prove the Army tried to run a Coup against their living God Emperor to continue the war.

The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II: A Collection of Primary Sources

Claiming that an offer to return to the November 1941 Borders is an offer to surrender is ridiculous. Further Japan INSISTED that no foreign troops would be allowed in Japan and that they would not disarm.

Didn't say they'd offered to surrender, said they were trying to. The military didn't want to, but the civilian leaders did.

The Navy realized they had no chance of winning, it was mostly the Army that refused to surrender.

 

[gipper]

Japan offered to end the war several times and did so as early as 1943. But the fool, FDR put in the unconditional surrender requirement that resulted in lots of dead Japanese and Americans. Nice job...

The only condition they asked for in July '45 was for the emperor to be allowed to stay on the throne. The war criminal Truman ignored this just so he could incinerate lots of children, women, and old people....all in an effort to pressure our great ally Uncle Joe...the world's greatest mass murderer.

Funny...after Truman murdered all those civilians in cold blood, he allowed the emperor to stay on the throne....sad....very sad.

 

[martybegan]

Japan offered to end the war several times and did so as early as 1943. But the fool, FDR put in the unconditional surrender requirement that resulted in lots of dead Japanese and Americans. Nice job...

The only condition they asked for in July '45 was for the emperor to be allowed to stay on the throne. The war criminal Truman ignored this just so he could incinerate lots of children, women, and old people....all in an effort to pressure our great ally Uncle Joe...the world's greatest mass murderer.

Funny...after Truman murdered all those civilians in cold blood, he allowed the emperor to stay on the throne....sad....very sad.

Revisionist history. There were 4 demands. 1. No Occupation. 2. No disarmament. 3. All war crime trials to be done in Japan by the Japanese. 4. Nothing happening to the Emperor.

And if we gave into that we would have probably had to fight them 20-30 years later all over again. Unconditional surrender was how we treated Germany, and Japan had to be treated the same way.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

By the time we used the atomic bombs, Japan was already in the process of trying to surrender. But we made a big deal about "unconditional surrender" so the bombs were like hitting a boxer who's already fallen, but then tries to get back up and dropping a cement mixer on him. Wasn't necessary, but was expediant. It only forced the Japanese to give up on 'conditional surrender.'

As we only learned in teh decades that followed with atmosphereic testing, the altitude you detonate a nuclear weapon determines how effective it is. Too low, or on the ground much of the shockwave is absorbed/lost right into the earth. Too high and the shockwave doesn't inflict maximum damage. The sweet spot depends on the yield.

Aiming points and even low-yield atomic class weapons is kinda laughable. Doesn't matter where it goes off, especially nowadays when so much bad info has everyone wetting themselves at the idea of another being used in anger. Mushroom cloud rising over open ocean with just fish being killed will have the exact same result vaporizing a city will insofar as the panic that'd ensue. Actually hitting any part of the city had the same result an on-target blast woulda. The point wasn't so much to inflict more damage but to bluff them into thinking we had more we could use. The bluff worked, but we'd been making many many more now that we knew we could and how. If the war had dragged on, we'd have had more to use.

Resonance, superimposing the shock waves on each other.

 

[gipper]

Japan offered to end the war several times and did so as early as 1943. But the fool, FDR put in the unconditional surrender requirement that resulted in lots of dead Japanese and Americans. Nice job...

The only condition they asked for in July '45 was for the emperor to be allowed to stay on the throne. The war criminal Truman ignored this just so he could incinerate lots of children, women, and old people....all in an effort to pressure our great ally Uncle Joe...the world's greatest mass murderer.

Funny...after Truman murdered all those civilians in cold blood, he allowed the emperor to stay on the throne....sad....very sad.

Revisionist history. There were 4 demands. 1. No Occupation. 2. No disarmament. 3. All war crime trials to be done in Japan by the Japanese. 4. Nothing happening to the Emperor.

And if we gave into that we would have probably had to fight them 20-30 years later all over again. Unconditional surrender was how we treated Germany, and Japan had to be treated the same way.

Wrong. The only demand was leaving the Emperor alone. It is all laid out in John Denson's article. Are you man enough to read it?

The Hiroshima Lie

by John V. Denson

 

[regent]

The Japanese leaders were as at odds on what to do as today's Republican party. Fortunately they had a supreme power to decide, the emperor, and his decision pretty much ended the internal conflict. Would the emperor have spoken and decided to end the war without the use of the bombs? If Hirohito had said Japan will fight on, Japan would have fought on and the cost would have obscene. Add to that Americans were tired of the war, the GI's wanted to come home, and believe it or not, there are Americans today that believe we should have gone on and fought the USSR for control of Europe. Had we done so, would the war still be going on?

 

[namvet]

it was closer to 66,000 killed. but the bombs ended the war. for me case closed

 

[martybegan]

Japan offered to end the war several times and did so as early as 1943. But the fool, FDR put in the unconditional surrender requirement that resulted in lots of dead Japanese and Americans. Nice job...

The only condition they asked for in July '45 was for the emperor to be allowed to stay on the throne. The war criminal Truman ignored this just so he could incinerate lots of children, women, and old people....all in an effort to pressure our great ally Uncle Joe...the world's greatest mass murderer.

Funny...after Truman murdered all those civilians in cold blood, he allowed the emperor to stay on the throne....sad....very sad.

Revisionist history. There were 4 demands. 1. No Occupation. 2. No disarmament. 3. All war crime trials to be done in Japan by the Japanese. 4. Nothing happening to the Emperor.

And if we gave into that we would have probably had to fight them 20-30 years later all over again. Unconditional surrender was how we treated Germany, and Japan had to be treated the same way.

Wrong. The only demand was leaving the Emperor alone. It is all laid out in John Denson's article. Are you man enough to read it?

The Hiroshima Lie

by John V. Denson

Oooh an article that flys in the face of all other known facts in the case. The Japanese Army had 4 demands, not one.

Again, revisionist history.

 

[namvet]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7mTqpibZ5Q]Emperor Movie Trailer (2013) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Vandalshandle]

The Japanese military was so committed to the war that the emperor's recorded message to the people of Japan annoucing the end of the war had to be locked in a hidden safe overnight, before it was played on the radio. meantime, many top military leaders tried to take over the government in a coup, but failed. Most of these people then killed themselves.

Total American killed and wounded in the invasion of Japan was estimated to be as high as one million, based on the casualties experienced at Okinawa. Japanese casualties were estimated to be as high as 3 million.

My step father was on Okinawa, and his next stop was Japan proper. Based on what he saw on Okinawa, he assumed that he would not make it back to the States.

I have noticed over the years that those who condemned America for the use of the atomic bombs were born in later generations, and did not even have a hint at what was happening in 1945. The truth is that if it was revealed that Truman had the atomic bomb, and did not use it, he would have been the first president in American history to be sucessfully empeached.

 

[martybegan]

The Japanese military was so committed to the war that the emperor's recorded message to the people of Japan annoucing the end of the war had to be locked in a hidden safe overnight, before it was played on the radio. meantime, many top military leaders tried to take over the government in a coup, but failed. Most of these people then killed themselves.

Total American killed and wounded in the invasion of Japan was estimated to be as high as one million, based on the casualties experienced at Okinawa. Japanese casualties were estimated to be as high as 3 million.

My step father was on Okinawa, and his next stop was Japan proper. Based on what he saw on Okinawa, he assumed that he would not make it back to the States.

My Grandfather was on Mindanao and was in a division slated as a follow up force, probably D+20 or so.

 

[Vandalshandle]

It is also a fact that General LeMay's incenterary b-29 bombing raids, which were intentionally designed to burn entire wooden cities to the ground, killed more Japanese that both atomic bombs combined.

 

[whitehall]

Bottomline = the bomb saved aprox 50,000 american lives!!!and $$$$$$$$$$$

Bottom line...The Bomb incinerated tens of thousand Japanese civilians. Harry Truman went on to kill about 50,000 Americans in a futile war in Korea.

Thankfully those of use who are conversant with all the historical events surrounding the cause and prosecution of the Korean Conflict know it's much more complicated than you portray not to mention all the historical facts surrounding the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan.

How complicated was Korea? Truman bypassed congress and used an (illegal?) executive order to commit Troops to combat. US forces finally pushed the NK back across the 38th parallel and even took the NK capital, PongYang. The war was over except for a possibly senile old WW1 veteran Soldier who decided to "liberate" the entire peninsula with exhausted and ill supplied Troops with winter approaching. MacArthur disregarded threats by Communist China that they would enter the conflict if US Troops approached the Yalu river border and led the US into the biggest ambush in history. He was finally relieved of duty after making crazy threats to nuke China. We lost around 50,000 Troops in three years and snatched an embarrassing truce from the jaws of victory and the freaking nut case general MacArthur came home to a tickertape parade courtesy of the fawning stupid media.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Bottom line...The Bomb incinerated tens of thousand Japanese civilians. Harry Truman went on to kill about 50,000 Americans in a futile war in Korea.

Thankfully those of use who are conversant with all the historical events surrounding the cause and prosecution of the Korean Conflict know it's much more complicated than you portray not to mention all the historical facts surrounding the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan.

How complicated was Korea? Truman bypassed congress and used an (illegal?) executive order to commit Troops to combat. US forces finally pushed the NK back across the 38th parallel and even took the NK capital, PongYang. The war was over except for a possibly senile old WW1 veteran Soldier who decided to "liberate" the entire peninsula with exhausted and ill supplied Troops with winter approaching. MacArthur disregarded threats by Communist China that they would enter the conflict if US Troops approached the Yalu river border and led the US into the biggest ambush in history. He was finally relieved of duty after making crazy threats to nuke China. We lost around 50,000 Troops in three years and snatched an embarrassing truce from the jaws of victory and the freaking nut case general MacArthur came home to a tickertape parade courtesy of the fawning stupid media.

And who started the Korean conflict? Are you aware American troops died in the opening hours of that conflict?

 

[Ringel05]

Bottom line...The Bomb incinerated tens of thousand Japanese civilians. Harry Truman went on to kill about 50,000 Americans in a futile war in Korea.

Thankfully those of use who are conversant with all the historical events surrounding the cause and prosecution of the Korean Conflict know it's much more complicated than you portray not to mention all the historical facts surrounding the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan.

How complicated was Korea? Truman bypassed congress and used an (illegal?) executive order to commit Troops to combat. US forces finally pushed the NK back across the 38th parallel and even took the NK capital, PongYang. The war was over except for a possibly senile old WW1 veteran Soldier who decided to "liberate" the entire peninsula with exhausted and ill supplied Troops with winter approaching. MacArthur disregarded threats by Communist China that they would enter the conflict if US Troops approached the Yalu river border and led the US into the biggest ambush in history. He was finally relieved of duty after making crazy threats to nuke China. We lost around 50,000 Troops in three years and snatched an embarrassing truce from the jaws of victory and the freaking nut case general MacArthur came home to a tickertape parade courtesy of the fawning stupid media.

Maybe if you read the actual historical events, timelines, the cause and effect in total you wouldn't come up with your "interesting" inferences.
US Enters the Korean Conflict