Loading The Nagasaki Bomb

[Vandalshandle]

Truman was correct to fire MacArthur. His only mistake was waiting too long. However, it would have been very difficult to get rid of him after MacArthur polished up his own halo with the incredibly sucessful Inchon campaign. He was a megalomaniac, who had long since discarded all boundaries. Being almost worshiped as a god by the Japanese for 5 years didn't help, either.

 

[regent]

Truman was correct to fire MacArthur. His only mistake was waiting too long. However, it would have been very difficult to get rid of him after MacArthur polished up his own halo with the incredibly sucessful Inchon campaign. He was a megalomaniac, who had long since discarded all boundaries. Being almost worshiped as a god by the Japanese for 5 years didn't help, either.

FDR, my hero, made a terrible error in bringing MacArthur out of Bataan. There was a dearth of heros at the time and MacArthur was used to boost morale. After bloody Buna MacArthur did try and avoid some hot spot in New Guinea with his leap frog approach. Mac, however, may have been the right man for the Japanese occupation.
Finally, we should thank Republicans for not running MacArthur for president in 1952.

 

[whitehall]

Thankfully those of use who are conversant with all the historical events surrounding the cause and prosecution of the Korean Conflict know it's much more complicated than you portray not to mention all the historical facts surrounding the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan.

How complicated was Korea? Truman bypassed congress and used an (illegal?) executive order to commit Troops to combat. US forces finally pushed the NK back across the 38th parallel and even took the NK capital, PongYang. The war was over except for a possibly senile old WW1 veteran Soldier who decided to "liberate" the entire peninsula with exhausted and ill supplied Troops with winter approaching. MacArthur disregarded threats by Communist China that they would enter the conflict if US Troops approached the Yalu river border and led the US into the biggest ambush in history. He was finally relieved of duty after making crazy threats to nuke China. We lost around 50,000 Troops in three years and snatched an embarrassing truce from the jaws of victory and the freaking nut case general MacArthur came home to a tickertape parade courtesy of the fawning stupid media.

And who started the Korean conflict? Are you aware American troops died in the opening hours of that conflict?

The point is that the president doesn't have the authority to commit the US Military to combat on his own. OK, if Truman issued an executive order the entire conflict was his responsibility. US Troops were in pretty bad shape initially and were pushed into a defensive position. MacArthur wasn't much of a front line commander but he was a grand strategist. His Inchon landing cut the NK supply lines and the US Troops were able to mop up the NK invaders and restore the South Korean nation. The war was over and Truman was vindicated for his "illegal" executive order. The problem was that Truman was a timid president. He wasn't able to control the pompous, famous self described hero he appointed and looked away as Mac expanded the mission and led the US into a quagmire. Contrary to popular history the Chinese Communists were not involved in Korea until MacArthur decided to "piss in the Yalu".

 

[regent]

How complicated was Korea? Truman bypassed congress and used an (illegal?) executive order to commit Troops to combat. US forces finally pushed the NK back across the 38th parallel and even took the NK capital, PongYang. The war was over except for a possibly senile old WW1 veteran Soldier who decided to "liberate" the entire peninsula with exhausted and ill supplied Troops with winter approaching. MacArthur disregarded threats by Communist China that they would enter the conflict if US Troops approached the Yalu river border and led the US into the biggest ambush in history. He was finally relieved of duty after making crazy threats to nuke China. We lost around 50,000 Troops in three years and snatched an embarrassing truce from the jaws of victory and the freaking nut case general MacArthur came home to a tickertape parade courtesy of the fawning stupid media.

And who started the Korean conflict? Are you aware American troops died in the opening hours of that conflict?

The point is that the president doesn't have the authority to commit the US Military to combat on his own. OK, if Truman issued an executive order the entire conflict was his responsibility. US Troops were in pretty bad shape initially and were pushed into a defensive position. MacArthur wasn't much of a front line commander but he was a grand strategist. His Inchon landing cut the NK supply lines and the US Troops were able to mop up the NK invaders and restore the South Korean nation. The war was over and Truman was vindicated for his "illegal" executive order. The problem was that Truman was a timid president. He wasn't able to control the pompous, famous self described hero he appointed and looked away as Mac expanded the mission and led the US into a quagmire. Contrary to popular history the Chinese Communists were not involved in Korea until MacArthur decided to "piss in the Yalu".

Presidents have been ordering American troops into combat since Washington ordered troops into combat in 1794 to supress the Whiskey Rebellion.

 

[whitehall]

And who started the Korean conflict? Are you aware American troops died in the opening hours of that conflict?

The point is that the president doesn't have the authority to commit the US Military to combat on his own. OK, if Truman issued an executive order the entire conflict was his responsibility. US Troops were in pretty bad shape initially and were pushed into a defensive position. MacArthur wasn't much of a front line commander but he was a grand strategist. His Inchon landing cut the NK supply lines and the US Troops were able to mop up the NK invaders and restore the South Korean nation. The war was over and Truman was vindicated for his "illegal" executive order. The problem was that Truman was a timid president. He wasn't able to control the pompous, famous self described hero he appointed and looked away as Mac expanded the mission and led the US into a quagmire. Contrary to popular history the Chinese Communists were not involved in Korea until MacArthur decided to "piss in the Yalu".

Presidents have been ordering American troops into combat since Washington ordered troops into combat in 1794 to supress the Whiskey Rebellion.

The 1700's were a long time ago. FDR's famous "day of infamy" speech motivated congress into war. Harry Truman had a high school education and wasn't gifted with oratory skills. He issued an executive order and lost control of the mission which was his responsibility. LBJ was a crook and the media managed to blame Nixon for the Vietnam quagmire.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The point is that the president doesn't have the authority to commit the US Military to combat on his own. OK, if Truman issued an executive order the entire conflict was his responsibility. US Troops were in pretty bad shape initially and were pushed into a defensive position. MacArthur wasn't much of a front line commander but he was a grand strategist. His Inchon landing cut the NK supply lines and the US Troops were able to mop up the NK invaders and restore the South Korean nation. The war was over and Truman was vindicated for his "illegal" executive order. The problem was that Truman was a timid president. He wasn't able to control the pompous, famous self described hero he appointed and looked away as Mac expanded the mission and led the US into a quagmire. Contrary to popular history the Chinese Communists were not involved in Korea until MacArthur decided to "piss in the Yalu".

Presidents have been ordering American troops into combat since Washington ordered troops into combat in 1794 to supress the Whiskey Rebellion.

The 1700's were a long time ago. FDR's famous "day of infamy" speech motivated congress into war. Harry Truman had a high school education and wasn't gifted with oratory skills. He issued an executive order and lost control of the mission which was his responsibility. LBJ was a crook and the media managed to blame Nixon for the Vietnam quagmire.

The Media?

More Americans where killed in Vietnam under the Nixon administration than under LBJ...This is spite of the fact that Nixon ran his campaign for president on his "secret plan to end the war in Vietnam", which he admitted in the David Frost interviews years later that he had no such plan.

As for me, I hate LBJ and Nixon equally. They both tried to get me killed. They succeeded in getting two of my senior high school classmates killed.

 

[gipper]

Truman was correct to fire MacArthur. His only mistake was waiting too long. However, it would have been very difficult to get rid of him after MacArthur polished up his own halo with the incredibly sucessful Inchon campaign. He was a megalomaniac, who had long since discarded all boundaries. Being almost worshiped as a god by the Japanese for 5 years didn't help, either.

FDR, my hero, made a terrible error in bringing MacArthur out of Bataan. There was a dearth of heros at the time and MacArthur was used to boost morale. After bloody Buna MacArthur did try and avoid some hot spot in New Guinea with his leap frog approach. Mac, however, may have been the right man for the Japanese occupation.
Finally, we should thank Republicans for not running MacArthur for president in 1952.

FDR is your hero because statist historians told you to think that way...right?

FDR was a terrible fool. He was primarily responsible for the war crimes committed by American forces during WWII, enslaving half of Europe to communism, empowering the USSR, and so much more.

He is by far the worst president in our history.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Truman was correct to fire MacArthur. His only mistake was waiting too long. However, it would have been very difficult to get rid of him after MacArthur polished up his own halo with the incredibly sucessful Inchon campaign. He was a megalomaniac, who had long since discarded all boundaries. Being almost worshiped as a god by the Japanese for 5 years didn't help, either.

FDR, my hero, made a terrible error in bringing MacArthur out of Bataan. There was a dearth of heros at the time and MacArthur was used to boost morale. After bloody Buna MacArthur did try and avoid some hot spot in New Guinea with his leap frog approach. Mac, however, may have been the right man for the Japanese occupation.
Finally, we should thank Republicans for not running MacArthur for president in 1952.

FDR is your hero because statist historians told you to think that way...right?

FDR was a terrible fool. He was primarily responsible for the war crimes committed by American forces during WWII, enslaving half of Europe to communism, empowering the USSR, and so much more.

He is by far the worst president in our history.

{sigh}

 

[regent]

Truman was correct to fire MacArthur. His only mistake was waiting too long. However, it would have been very difficult to get rid of him after MacArthur polished up his own halo with the incredibly sucessful Inchon campaign. He was a megalomaniac, who had long since discarded all boundaries. Being almost worshiped as a god by the Japanese for 5 years didn't help, either.

FDR, my hero, made a terrible error in bringing MacArthur out of Bataan. There was a dearth of heros at the time and MacArthur was used to boost morale. After bloody Buna MacArthur did try and avoid some hot spot in New Guinea with his leap frog approach. Mac, however, may have been the right man for the Japanese occupation.
Finally, we should thank Republicans for not running MacArthur for president in 1952.

FDR is your hero because statist historians told you to think that way...right?

FDR was a terrible fool. He was primarily responsible for the war crimes committed by American forces during WWII, enslaving half of Europe to communism, empowering the USSR, and so much more.

He is by far the worst president in our history.

Nope, he is my hero because of the history of that period; add to that the historians agree with me FDR was the greatest; add to that the American people believed he was the greatest, and voted for FDR four times. Count em, four, with even Reagan voting for FDR.
I think the USSR sort of empowered themeselves as did America, as did Britain, as did Germany, as did Rome, as did many nations in history.
If half of Europe did not want to be enslaved by communism they should have done something about the condition, as America did not wanting to be enslaved to Britain.
Every nation commits crimes during a war, the very nature of war might be a crime, and I'm sure America committed some during WWII. We should make a rule, no crimes committed during a war.
Four times, a record.

 

[aplcr0331]

It is also a fact that General LeMay's incenterary b-29 bombing raids, which were intentionally designed to burn entire wooden cities to the ground, killed more Japanese that both atomic bombs combined.

Yep, this plus the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, actually spelled the end for the Japanese. Way more than the atomic bombs. Hand wringing panty-waste's like to imagine the "horror" of the bombs. Japan did not surrender because of the bombs.

 

[peach174]

The bomb never lived up to expectations, only some 50,000 killed by intial estimates. The first reason given for the faliure to perform was the topography of the valley Nagasaki was located in, the second later reason was the failure to hit the aiming point, Nagasaki was a secondary choice after the primary target was found obscured by clouds, the third reason may be that the bomb was detonated at the wrong height. If this bomb, the last of only two available, had been the only atomic weapon used on Japan, the Japanese would likely have laughed, then said "You've got a hot bomb! So what!" and kept on fighting. They incorrectly guessed at the cards the US held in its hands and surrendered.

Silent Nagasaki | Restricted Data

The bomb was not about how many people they wanted to kill.
That is why we dropped leaflets warning the people about the bomb. The people choose to believe their leader, who told them that America did not have any such bomb. So they did not leave like the leaflets warned them to do.
It was to stop the War and save lives, which it did.
Japan did not want to surrender. That is why we dropped the bomb's.

 

[Vandalshandle]

While it is true that we dropped the only 2 bombs we had on Japan, we produced new ones very quickly, having learned how to build them. I suspect that if the Japanese had not surrendered, Truman may very well have put the invasion of Japan on hold, and told the Army Air Corp. to drop them as fast as we could build them, until they surrendered. He would have been right to do so.

 

[gipper]

While it is true that we dropped the only 2 bombs we had on Japan, we produced new ones very quickly, having learned how to build them. I suspect that if the Japanese had not surrendored, Truman may very well have put the invasion of Japan on hold, and told the Army Air Corp. to drop them as fast as we could build them, until they surrendered. He would have been right to do so.

Sick and very sad....to think it right to murder women, children, and the elderly in cold blood. Wanton slaughter of civilians, who had no say in their governments actions, is immoral and disgusting...and should never be allowed or commended.

What Truman did was no different than what the Nazis did to the Jews or the Japanese did to Nanking. And he dropped those two bombs over the objections of MacArthur, Leahy, Nimitz, Clarke, and other top military brass.

The Hiroshima Lie by John V. Denson

Truman was one sick bastard...just like you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

While it is true that we dropped the only 2 bombs we had on Japan, we produced new ones very quickly, having learned how to build them. I suspect that if the Japanese had not surrendored, Truman may very well have put the invasion of Japan on hold, and told the Army Air Corp. to drop them as fast as we could build them, until they surrendered. He would have been right to do so.

Sick and very sad....to think it right to murder women, children, and the elderly in cold blood. Wanton slaughter of civilians, who had no say in their governments actions, is immoral and disgusting...and should never be allowed or commended.

What Truman did was no different than what the Nazis did to the Jews or the Japanese did to Nanking. And he dropped those two bombs over the objections of MacArthur, Leahy, Nimitz, Clarke, and other top military brass.

The Hiroshima Lie by John V. Denson

Truman was one sick bastard...just like you.

If we invaded the home Islands MILLIONS of Japanese civilians would have died. The Japanese defense plan called for all able bodied people man woman and child to arm themselves with bamboo spears and human wave rush the invasion beaches.

 

[regent]

While it is true that we dropped the only 2 bombs we had on Japan, we produced new ones very quickly, having learned how to build them. I suspect that if the Japanese had not surrendored, Truman may very well have put the invasion of Japan on hold, and told the Army Air Corp. to drop them as fast as we could build them, until they surrendered. He would have been right to do so.

Sick and very sad....to think it right to murder women, children, and the elderly in cold blood. Wanton slaughter of civilians, who had no say in their governments actions, is immoral and disgusting...and should never be allowed or commended.

What Truman did was no different than what the Nazis did to the Jews or the Japanese did to Nanking. And he dropped those two bombs over the objections of MacArthur, Leahy, Nimitz, Clarke, and other top military brass.

The Hiroshima Lie by John V. Denson

Truman was one sick bastard...just like you.

Might check out how long it took for Japan to surrender after the second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. The Japanese military had a code, Bushido, that did not allow them to surrender. That's why they made suicidal charges into American machine guns and why Japanse soldiers committed suicide rather than surrender. That was the enemy we were dealing with and many Americans did not understand then and still don't.
The military only surrendered after their Godlike emperor told the military to surrender. If Hirohito had told them to keep fighting they would have fought on. The bombs convinced the emperor that Japan would have to endure the unendurable.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Total war was pretty much invented by Sherman, who decided to march across Georgia, burning everything that could possibly help the confederacy survive, and living off the land, instead of maintaining a supply line. It was stepped up a level when Germany invaded the low countries in 1914, lined civilians of nuetral countries up against the wall and shot them, and introduced poisen gas. By 1940, the Germans cranked total war up another notch, with the London Blitz. By the time the air war against Germany was in full swing, in 1942, the Americans and the British were bombing German cities, instead of just military targets, because they wanted to destroy the morale of the German people, and because the bombing of isolated military targets was so inaccurate that it had little affect on the German industrial capacity, while costing the allies unacceptable losses in planes and crews. We went full bore after that, and by 1945 were intentionally creating fire storms that killed as many as 100,000 Germans in Dresden alone. In fact, we would first drop 8,000 pound bombs to create major craters to hamper firefighting equpment, followed by concussion bombs that would blow out all the windows in the city to make the fire draft more effective, and then used incentarary bombs to burn the city. This system was especially used by the allies on older wooden cities.

It worked. By the Spring of 1945, there were virtually no targets left in Germany, and between the collapse of their industry and the soviet advance, they knew they were beat.

As for your comment:"Truman was one sick bastard...just like you.", all I need to say is that you had no dog in that fight. I did. My step-father was on line to invade Japan. It is so easy to moralize when you have nothing to lose. Truman was my hero, and if you think he was a sick bastard, then I am proud that you think I am, too.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCB3fnXDzew]The Good the Bad and the Ugly - Bath of Tuco - YouTube[/ame]

 

[martybegan]

Total war was pretty much invented by Sherman, who decided to march across Georgia, burning everything that could possibly help the confederacy survive, and living off the land, instead of maintaining a supply line. It was stepped up a level when Germany invaded the low countries in 1914, lined civilians of nuetral countries up against the wall and shot them, and introduced poisen gas. By 1940, the Germans cranked total war up another notch, with the London Blitz. By the time the air war against Germany was in full swing, in 1942, the Americans and the British were bombing German cities, instead of just military targets, because they wanted to destroy the morale of the German people, and because the bombing of isolated military targets was so inaccurate that it had little affect on the German industrial capacity, while costing the allies unacceptable losses in planes and crews. We went full bore after that, and by 1945 were intentionally creating fire storms that killed as many as 100,000 Germans in Dresden alone. In fact, we would first drop 8,000 pound bombs to create major craters to hamper firefighting equpment, followed by concussion bombs that would blow out all the windows in the city to make the fire draft more effective, and then used incentarary bombs to burn the city. This system was especially used by the allies on older wooden cities.

It worked. By the Spring of 1945, there were virtually no targets left in Germany, and between the collapse of their industry and the soviet advance, they knew they were beat.

As for your comment:"Truman was one sick bastard...just like you.", all I need to say is that you had no dog in that fight. I did. My step-father was on line to invade Japan. It is so easy to moralize when you have nothing to lose. Truman was my hero, and if you think he was a sick bastard, then I am proud that you think I am, too.

The Good the Bad and the Ugly - Bath of Tuco - YouTube

Modern total war, Some dudes named Attila and Genghis practiced it pretty well.

The concept of limited war is actually a Greek thing.

 

[martybegan]

It is also a fact that General LeMay's incenterary b-29 bombing raids, which were intentionally designed to burn entire wooden cities to the ground, killed more Japanese that both atomic bombs combined.

Yep, this plus the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, actually spelled the end for the Japanese. Way more than the atomic bombs. Hand wringing panty-waste's like to imagine the "horror" of the bombs. Japan did not surrender because of the bombs.

The Bombs were the icing on the cake, and all the revisionist history in the world cannot change that.

 

[gipper]

While it is true that we dropped the only 2 bombs we had on Japan, we produced new ones very quickly, having learned how to build them. I suspect that if the Japanese had not surrendored, Truman may very well have put the invasion of Japan on hold, and told the Army Air Corp. to drop them as fast as we could build them, until they surrendered. He would have been right to do so.

Sick and very sad....to think it right to murder women, children, and the elderly in cold blood. Wanton slaughter of civilians, who had no say in their governments actions, is immoral and disgusting...and should never be allowed or commended.

What Truman did was no different than what the Nazis did to the Jews or the Japanese did to Nanking. And he dropped those two bombs over the objections of MacArthur, Leahy, Nimitz, Clarke, and other top military brass.

The Hiroshima Lie by John V. Denson

Truman was one sick bastard...just like you.

If we invaded the home Islands MILLIONS of Japanese civilians would have died. The Japanese defense plan called for all able bodied people man woman and child to arm themselves with bamboo spears and human wave rush the invasion beaches.

Yet another lie promoted by the State and you believe it. It is entirely made up by Truman and his cabal AFTER the a-bombings, to justify the incineration of innocents and to silence the criticism the act initially received in America.

And why did we need to invade? Japan was done. They had no navy, no army, no air force. There was no need to occupy them. But, that changed after the persistent and terrible bombings we inflicted on Japan. The only reason we had to occupy Japan was to keep the Soviets from over running a defenseless nation and keep the living Japanese from mass starvation. A nation we made defenseless and starving.

Murdering defenseless civilians on a vast scale, as Truman did, is never the answer and should be condemned by all Americans. It was a war crime of the highest order. Truman was no different than the other mass murderers of the 20th century.

It is all here if you care to KNOW the TRUTH..
Was Hiroshima Necessary?

and here...
The Ethics of War: Hiroshima and Nagasaki After 50 Years : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

and here....from the Great Tom Woods....
Left-Liberal Catholics: Yay for the Atomic Bombings! | Tom Woods

and here from the Great Ralph Raico...
Harry Truman and the Atomic Bomb - Ralph Raico - Mises Daily

 

[gipper]

It is also a fact that General LeMay's incenterary b-29 bombing raids, which were intentionally designed to burn entire wooden cities to the ground, killed more Japanese that both atomic bombs combined.

Yep, this plus the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, actually spelled the end for the Japanese. Way more than the atomic bombs. Hand wringing panty-waste's like to imagine the "horror" of the bombs. Japan did not surrender because of the bombs.

The Bombs were the icing on the cake, and all the revisionist history in the world cannot change that.

Murdering innocent civilians is NEVER icing on the cake. It is a war crime of the highest order. To think such a thing, is appalling.

Had Japan won the war, Truman would have been hung for his crimes...and deservedly so.