History Series by jwoodie: Unconditional Surrender to End WW2

[0311]

Hirohito abdicating the thrown was never part of the Instrument of Surrender. MacA knew the Japanese People would never have accepted Hirohito resigning and if he had abdicated the throne, MacA knew going in such an event would have made the American Occupation nearly impossible. The Japanese Royal Family has been on the throne over 1,000 Years. MacA respected that. Hirohito remained on the throne. That was the way it had to be.

 

[Mushroom]

Hirohito became a figure head.

Here is the thing, he was always a figurehead. As had every Emperor from 1192 to the present day, with the exception of one.

The only exception is known as "Emperor Meiji", in what is known as the "Meiji Restoration". For the first time in almost 700 years the Emperor dismissed the Shogun and in essentially a "Self-Coup" assembled an army and fought a war to force the Shogun, the Samurai, and all others to place himself as a true Emperor in the modern sense and took total control of the nation. Whenever somebody watches "The Last Samurai", realize that the "hero" is actually fighting to try and keep the Shogun in power. A dictator who wanted to keep Japan locked in a backwards feudal state that Europe had left centuries before.

However, that the Meiji Restoration was not to last, only from 1868-1912. When Meiji died his son and heir was Emperor Taisho, who was literally mentally impaired (most likely caused by childhood meningitis). And as he was not able to rule himself as his father did, a new cabal arose to rule in his name. But unlike the Shogunate which had become hereditary positions, this time it was high ranking military officers and retired military officers that took control.

And when Emperor Taisho died in 1926 and his son Emperor Showa took the throne, that same cabal of officers remained in command of the country. So just as it had been for 700 years before his Grandfather, Japan was once again a nation that was in reality ruled by an elite group but this time career military officers and not a hereditary nobility. That is where the Imperial Rule Assistance Association (essentially the Japanese Fascist Party) came about to "assist" the Emperor in ruling the nation. And the "Big Six", the actual leaders of the nation during WWII. All both the leaders of the Imperial Rule Assistance Association as well as high ranking military officers except for one.

Prime Minister: Admiral Suzuki
Minister of Foreign Affairs: Shigenori Togo (the only civilian on the council)
Minister of the Army: General Anami
Minister of the Navy: Admiral Yonai
Chief of Army General Staff: General Umezu
Chief of Navy General Staff: Admiral Oikawa (replaced by Admiral Toyoda in May 1945)

Those six were the ones that really ran the nation. Emperor Showa attended the meetings, but he literally was kept out of sight behind a screen. He was allowed to listen out of sight, and prohibited to ever say anything in those meetings. So it was not that he "became a figurehead", he was a figure head from the day he took the Chrysanthemum Throne. Just as his father was before him, and every Emperor going back over 700 years with the single exception of his grandfather.

In essence, after WWII Emperor Showa was essentially placed in the position of the contemporary English monarch. They reigned, but did not rule. However, unlike all the previous Emperors other than his grandfather, he was now allowed to speak to the Japanese people (once he actually learned "real" Japanese - he actually did not speak Japanese but an archaic court version that had not been used in centuries). And as such he spent the rest of his life trying to lead his people, but never ruling them. And it was a role that apparently suited him well.

 

[0311]

As a leader, Hirohito had always been weak. Hideki Tojo, once the Japanese Nationalists assumed power tightly controlled Hirohito. The old films of the Emperor riding his horse and saluting were carefully staged. The people of Japan loved the idea of unbroken rules stretching back over 1.000 years.

When Tojo fell from grace, sometime in 1944 Hirohito wanted peace. The Army Air Corps was terror bombing Japan's Cities. The U.S. Army's steady advance on the Home Islands scared the crap of him. It was Hirohito, after Hiroshima that told the ministers to sue for peace.

 

[Mushroom]

Hirohito abdicating the thrown was never part of the Instrument of Surrender. MacA knew the Japanese People would never have accepted Hirohito resigning and if he had abdicated the throne

Actually, he could have but that opened up another problem. Emperor Showa could have abdicated, but his son and heir Akihito was only 11 years old.

The Japanese people would have accepted Emperor Showa stepping aside, but they absolutely would not have stood for an abolishment of the Chrysanthemum Throne. And as the heir was still a child, that would have meant trying to find a suitable Regent to rule in his place until he came of age.

And one has to remember, the Emperor is in their culture literally descended from heaven. The latest in a single unbroken dynasty that has been Emperors of Japan since Emperor Jimmu took the throne in 660 BCE.

That is something that exists nowhere else on the planet. Never has, and likely never will. To put that in perspective, the current ruling dynasty of Japan (there has only ever been one dynasty) took charge in the same decade that Kush invaded and reconquered Egypt after killing Pharaoh Necho I. That Shamash-shum-ukin became the King of Babylon. Just a few decades after Josiah became the King of Judah in the Old Testament. And during his reign, Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar II sacked Jerusalem, destroying Solomon's Temple and bringing an to an end the Kingdom of Judah. Confucius was born at the end of his reign.

A nation, led by a single dynasty of Emperors that has literally been in power since "Biblical times".

That is such a key part of the "Japanese Identity" that the entire nation likely would have gone up in flames if the Allies even attempted to abolish the throne.

 

[Mushroom]

As a leader, Hirohito had always been weak. Hideki Tojo, once the Japanese Nationalists assumed power tightly controlled Hirohito. The old films of the Emperor riding his horse and saluting were carefully staged. The people of Japan loved the idea of unbroken rules stretching back over 1.000 years.

Every Emperor was "weak" (other than his grandfather). And it is not just "over 1,000 years", at that time it was literally over 2,500 years. And for almost half of that, the Emperor literally was just a puppet for others that actually ruled the nation in his name.

Hell, the Japanese people had literally never even heard him speak until 15 August 1945. The "Jewel Voice Broadcast" where he informed them of the nation's acceptance of Potsdam and the end of the war was the first time any Japanese Emperor's voice had ever been recorded or transmitted. And his dialect of Japanese was so antiquated that it had to be followed immediately by a translator to repeat it in contemporary Japanese.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Get it through your skull, IT WAS NEVER A CONDITION. It is not written down anywhere in any document.

Don't bother. Unk is a shitlord, this is one of his tactics-he parrots the same nonsense until you get tired of responding to it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

As a leader, Hirohito had always been weak. Hideki Tojo, once the Japanese Nationalists assumed power tightly controlled Hirohito. The old films of the Emperor riding his horse and saluting were carefully staged. The people of Japan loved the idea of unbroken rules stretching back over 1.000 years.

When Tojo fell from grace, sometime in 1944 Hirohito wanted peace. The Army Air Corps was terror bombing Japan's Cities. The U.S. Army's steady advance on the Home Islands scared the crap of him. It was Hirohito, after Hiroshima that told the ministers to sue for peace.

And even after 2 atomic bombs, surrender nearly got him assassinated

 

[Mushroom]

And even after 2 atomic bombs, surrender nearly got him assassinated

Yes, the Kyujo Incident. Although their goal was not actually to assassinate the Emperor, but to hold him hostage and replace the Big Six with a new Privy Council full of diehards that would not surrender.

In the entire history of Japan, only two Emperors had been assassinated. Emperor Anko in 456. After he had his younger brother killed he married his wife. Then several years later his nephew-step-son in turn killed him.

The other was Emperor Sushun in 592, who was killed by the leader of another clan that grew fearful of his power.

Actually killing the Emperor would have been almost unheard of in Japan. However, like as happened multiple times during the Shogunate, one potential Shogun fighting the current Shogun for control of the Emperor was a time-honored tradition. This essentially would have been the same thing.

 

[Mushroom]

Don't bother. Unk is a shitlord, this is one of his tactics-he parrots the same nonsense until you get tired of responding to it.

As much as Poophead claims to be very familiar with Japan and their history and culture, it always strikes me as superficial at best. Like some Otaku, who tries to act like some kind of expert but really knows nothing of the nation, history, or culture.

I find this rather funny, as he has a long history of calling my posts "fake news", even though I provide multiple references. Even including the actual text of the telegrams sent between high ranking members of the Government and other internal Japanese communications. Meanwhile, about all he can ever produce is some long disproven newspaper claim from I want to say the 1960s.

In fact, simply the fact that I most times refer to him by the English translation of his name has often been hilarious. As he gets pissed off when I refer to him as "Poophead", even though that is the literal translation of Unkotare. Although to be even more literal, it is the name of a sexual fetish that involves deficating on the head of another.

So to be absolutely accurate, he is not a "shitlord" but a "shithead".

 

[AZrailwhale]

The end result was the same for both situations. The termination of German and Japanese expansionism and militarism.

Japan got off "easier" because they finished 2nd. The US people were tired of the war, and everyone pretty much knew all Japan could hope for was a lopsided draw where they keep the home Islands and maybe parts of China (a long shot but that was their best hope post 1944).

Also the shock of "one bomb, city gone" lessened the American blood lust for the Japanese, which most people don't know paled in comparison to the mutual hatred between Germans and Russians.

The Germans massacred millions of Russian POW's, The Russians kept millions or at least hundreds of thousands of German POWs as virtual slave labor for a decade after WWII was over.

Japan also got off easier because of the Korean War. The USA needed Japanese bases and personnel to support the war. That meant relaxing many of the strictures set up by Doug and a serious economic leg up,

 

[martybegan]

Japan also got off easier because of the Korean War. The USA needed Japanese bases and personnel to support the war. That meant relaxing many of the strictures set up by Doug and a serious economic leg up,

The Germans didn't get too much punishment after the surrender from the American's either. It was the Russians that punished Germany long after the war was over.

Japan was personal for us until we obliterated most of their cities. That sated our bloodlust. Us against the Germans was business from the start.

It was far more personal for the Russians.