Lincoln was a great leader exclusive of the war, darn him

[Baruch Menachem]

The republicans and Lincoln made huge strides, mostly because the democrats were off involved in treasonous activities, and wern't there to stop them. to my mind, the biggest difference they made were the creation of the cow colleges, which have become universities like Oregon State.

They also created the transcontinental railways.

Or course, as great as they were, they did things wrong too, such as funding those railways. Credit Mobilier was a horrible scandal that stinks to high heaven. He also made the US on the Gold standard, as opposed to the silver standard. A huge mistake. The US had tons of Silver, not enough gold

when we look at the politicians of the time, Breakenridge, Bell, Davis, Douglas... he stands even taller. Despite his mistakes, he is great.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One of the top three, in my opinion. And great Presidents like Polk and TR are midgets in his shadow.

 

[jwoodie]

600,000 dead to save his presidency. Absent his assassination, he would be considered a villain.

 

[paperview]

600,000 dead to save his presidency. Absent his assassination, he would be considered a villain.

#wonbothofthem

 

[occupied]

It's kind of tragic that today's republicans have no vision and no courage to do anything great. What's their big pet project? A fucking oil pipeline. Other than that they just do not give a fuck about building the future.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

because the congress regarded the southern members as merely absent rather than being in a different country somewhere, the Republicans were able to do lots of things for good and bad. The southern members insured transformational politics. I don't like, for example, the corruption that went with the railroads. But the republican congresses between 1861 and 1867 did more for the country than any prior to 1933, and more good for the country ever.

 

[JakeStarkey]

600,000 dead to save his presidency. Absent his assassination, he would be considered a villain.

To save the Nation, and if he had not, he would be a villain. Instead, you are one for questioning it.

 

[hipeter924]

600,000 dead to save his presidency. Absent his assassination, he would be considered a villain.

If the South had won, taken all the Northern states - and there was a Confederate President do you think it would be acceptable to assassinate the President after re-election? Most Southerners back then felt assassinating Lincoln was a step too far (if not cowardly).

 

[Baruch Menachem]

there were also the homestead act and the national banking act.

The national banking act repaired the damage caused by andrew jackson and his elimination of the national bank. It didn't go far enough, but it got the banking system on a sensible path.

the homestead act was not enough, but it was a great start

 

[bripat9643]

It's kind of tragic that today's republicans have no vision and no courage to do anything great. What's their big pet project? A fucking oil pipeline. Other than that they just do not give a fuck about building the future.

We don't need government to be doing "great" things. Stalin did plenty of great things, like building the White Sea canal. 25,000 people died in the process.

When ever government does "great things" it invariably crushes a lot of little people trying to do their own thing.

No thanks.

 

[bripat9643]

600,000 dead to save his presidency. Absent his assassination, he would be considered a villain.

If the South had won, taken all the Northern states - and there was a Confederate President do you think it would be acceptable to assassinate the President after re-election? Most Southerners back then felt assassinating Lincoln was a step too far (if not cowardly).

The South had no intention of taking over the federal government, so your scenario couldn't be more implausible.

 

[bripat9643]

600,000 dead to save his presidency. Absent his assassination, he would be considered a villain.

To save the Nation, and if he had not, he would be a villain. Instead, you are one for questioning it.

He "saved the nation" in the same sense that Stalin "saved" the Soviet Union from freedom.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Lincoln's presidency strengthened the right of speech, even so that folks like bripat can post silly things above.

 

[gipper]

Lincoln was by far our worst president. But the Lincoln myth is hard to kill.

 

[JakeStarkey]

gipper, it is wonderful in our country that we have generally the freedom to say what we want, yeah? Even you.

 

[gipper]

gipper, it is wonderful in our country that we have generally the freedom to say what we want, yeah? Even you.

Agreed. However freedom of speech is under attack today as it was during Lincoln's time...when he closed hundreds of neespapers and imprisoned hundreds of people who disagreed with his war and unconstitutional acts.

 

[JakeStarkey]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

 

[gipper]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

 

[paperview]

gipper, it is wonderful in our country that we have generally the freedom to say what we want, yeah? Even you.

Agreed. However freedom of speech is under attack today as it was during Lincoln's time...when he closed hundreds of neespapers and imprisoned hundreds of people who disagreed with his war and unconstitutional acts.

For decades in the South, before the War, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed.

At least Lincoln did so in a time of war - and most often for good reason.

The Confederacy imprisoned thousands of political prisoners as well, but your DiLorenzo propaganda (the White Nationalist strikes again!) counts a great number of people, who in a time of war were
Deserters or draft evaders, there were those who were smuggling, conducting guerrilla activity, spying, etc.,
those found to be illegally trading with the Confederacy,
thieves who defrauded the War Department,
or those who were Confederate civilians in the Union.

The number of hundreds of newspapers has never been confirmed, DiLorenzo exaggerates, but newspapers who were shut down were often those who were calling for Union soldiers to desert, encouraging men to resist the draft, or advocated more states to join the confederacy - most often carried out by a few Union Officers.

One General who did arrest a newspaper published was called on the carpet by Lincoln with this:

"Under your recent order, which I have approved, you will only arrest individuals, and suppress assemblies, or newspapers, when they may be working palpable injury to the Military in your charge; and, in no other case will you interfere with the expression of opinion in any form, or allow it to be interfere with the expression of opinion in any form, or allow it to be interfered with violently by others. In this, you have a discretion to exercise with great caution, calmness, and forebearance.”
“With the matters of removing the inhabitants of certain counties en masse; and of removing certain individuals from time to time, who are supposed to be mischievous, I am not now interfering, but I am leaving to your own discretion.”

Abraham Lincoln and Missouri

 

[JakeStarkey]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.