Liberals: How Do You define What it Means to be a Liberal?

[NYcarbineer]

Yes that is why the far left wants to do away with document and it would seem that the so called "liberals" or what I call Neo-libs support this action.

So thus your definition of "liberal" does not fit as they would NOT have voted for Obama, Pelosi or Reid and would be openly defiant against them.

Yet they are not, thus proving that (by your definition) Liberals no longer exist.

Whoa! You are impressive. I had better be careful not to get into a discussion with you. I am especially intimidated by your cutting use of our language. I can tell that you are detail oriented....and rely on provable facts to form your opinions.

Yessir......the USMB nutter community needed someone like you.

Since all you have is an insult that must mean my point was valid.

Good to know that my point was spot on, thanks for verifying that.

What is your evidence that there is a consensus among liberals that the Constitution needs to be 'done away with'?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Billo props to you. Of all the liberals on this board you seem to be the only one who is sort of willing to define your principles.

Someone else posted "common sense about fiscal issues," and the "Constitution is a living document." I have no idea what either of those statements mean. Does common sense about fiscal issues mean you ignore the fact that entitlement programs are going bankrupt? Does it mean you support entitlement reform? What does it mean?

And the Constitution is a living document? Does that mean you can ignore it at will, or the words are important and mean what they say? Which is it?

How did you describe yourself regarding fiscal issues? Did you?

Shit....you do not listen when others tell you what thy are about. All of you idiots think you know the answer already. That is the point.

 

[LoneLaugher]

This entire thread has been an interesting experiment. I think if a thread was started asking Libertarians to define their core beliefs it would go on for pages and pages. Ditto for Conservatives.

You ask Liberals about their core beliefs and there is virtually dead silence. Very strange. Billo is really the only one who took a shot at it.

In a therapy situation this is called planting the flag. If you are willing to plant the flag for what you believe there is generally intellectual thought behind it and a degree of moral certainty. It does not mean the person is always correct, but at least they have the courage of their convictions.

I do encourage Liberal posters to express their political philosophy. Don't be shy. Let folks know what you stand for and why. Maybe you can build some bridges?

Bullshit. I have described my "philosophy" in detail here scores of times. Nutters ignore it and then tell me what I think and feel. Just like you are doing here.

 

[Billo_Really]

Money has always ruled politics. It always will. But the Democrats are just as paid off as the Republicans. Do liberals not see this?

None of our Representatives really look out for the little guy. The Dems pay lip service to the little guy to buy votes, but then pocket the money Corporations and Unions give to them. The Republicans do the same, but at least they don't try to blatantly buy votes with our money.

I've been saying for some time now, democrats and republicans are flip-sides of the same coin.

Both party's are nothing but corporate bitches, doing what they're told like good little whores.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Okay...well, I'm off to work. Still no liberals other than Billo seem to be willing to say what liberalism means to them and define their beliefs. I will say again....I find this stunning.

Libertarians and Conservatives can do this all day long and have no problem with it. The fact liberals seem to run and hide when a simple question is asked about what their beliefs are does not speak well for them in my opinion. Do you not know what you believe, or are you just afraid to be honest about it?

Personally, I respect anyone who stands up for their beliefs. If you will not, or cannot....this is not good.

Still bullshit. We do so all the time. Your OP hardly gave anyone an idea of what conservatism s to you...did it? You didn't do anything but say that you are conservative on some issues....whatever that means.

Try again..I will give you the type of response you seek....if you promise to never ask the question again.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Where do I agree with Conservatives? The Constitution directly expresses the Will of the People. The Founders were extremely clear in terms of what each article of the Constitution meant. It is not a tabula rasa, where each judge who looks at it gets to decide to change the Constitution's meaning to reflect their own biased political positions. It doesn't work that way. That is Judicial tyranny that Jefferson and Madison warned us all about. The Constitution can be amended. It folks think it needs to be changed, that is how you legally do it.

Also, we need to stop spending money we don't have. Stop with spending tax payer money and using it like a cookie jar to buy votes. That goes for both parties.

This Nation was built on two promises. A Bill of Rights and the opportunity to succeed or fail. There is no social contract where the Government promises people free shit. No welfare, no free healthcare, no food stamps, etc. These programs do not empower people...they enslave people. How is that for starters.

Now we are all still waiting for any liberal other than Billo to express what liberalism means to them. Come on...somebody must know. Is it really that hard?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Where do I agree with Conservatives? The Constitution directly expresses the Will of the People. The Founders were extremely clear in terms of what each article of the Constitution meant. It is not a tabula rasa, where each judge who looks at it gets to decide to change the Constitution's meaning to reflect their own biased political positions. It doesn't work that way. That is Judicial tyranny that Jefferson and Madison warned us all about. The Constitution can be amended. It folks think it needs to be changed, that is how you legally do it.

Also, we need to stop spending money we don't have. Stop with spending tax payer money and using it like a cookie jar to buy votes. That goes for both parties.

This Nation was built on two promises. A Bill of Rights and the opportunity to succeed or fail. There is no social contract where the Government promises people free shit. No welfare, no free healthcare, no food stamps, etc. These programs do not empower people...they enslave people. How is that for starters.

Now we are all still waiting for any liberal other than Billo to express what liberalism means to them. Come on...somebody must know. Is it really that hard?

Are you aware of how hollow your words seem to those of us who have the ability to think?

The platitudes just roll off the tips of your fingers like so many drops of oil in a rain lamp.

The founders....and the documents they created were COMPLEX. The desire for people such as you to see them as simple and without nuance is understandable. You desperately want to think that the problems we face today can be solved with a simple nod to the handful of words that you know from them.

Your forum name tells us all we need to know doesn't it? Your primary concern in life is that someone is getting some of yours. You sit there pretending that the starting line was the same for you as it was for someone born into poverty with uneducated and inattentive parents. Bullshit. There is luck involved. Where in this world you popped out.....something you had zero control over....has more to do with where you end up than the difference between your level of personal responsibility and that of the slacker who you imagine is gobbling up the fruits of your labor.

Entitlement culture? Buying votes? Basic human kindness as a form of enslavement? More bullshit. You ain't happy with what your draw in life plus your effort has combined to bring you. So you look DOWNWARD for a place to point. It is exactly human nature for a less than complex person to do that. After all, how can you convince yourself that someone who has reached a higher station in life could ever be part of your problem?

Conservative my ass.

Now....are you going to promise never to ask a the "what makes a liberal tick" question again........if I agree to give you a detailed answer?

 

[georgephillip]

1. Economic justice and security in the US and global economies.
2. Preserving civil rights and liberties.
3. Promoting global peace and security,
4. Strengthening environment protection of energy independence.

If I had to reduce the progressive ideology to a single word, it would probably be "fairness."

Congressional Progressive Caucus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[OODA_Loop]

If I had to reduce the progressive ideology to a single word, it would probably be "fairness."

But fairness based on what you emotionally reckon is fair.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Where do I agree with Conservatives? The Constitution directly expresses the Will of the People. The Founders were extremely clear in terms of what each article of the Constitution meant. It is not a tabula rasa, where each judge who looks at it gets to decide to change the Constitution's meaning to reflect their own biased political positions. It doesn't work that way. That is Judicial tyranny that Jefferson and Madison warned us all about. The Constitution can be amended. It folks think it needs to be changed, that is how you legally do it.

Also, we need to stop spending money we don't have. Stop with spending tax payer money and using it like a cookie jar to buy votes. That goes for both parties.

This Nation was built on two promises. A Bill of Rights and the opportunity to succeed or fail. There is no social contract where the Government promises people free shit. No welfare, no free healthcare, no food stamps, etc. These programs do not empower people...they enslave people. How is that for starters.

Now we are all still waiting for any liberal other than Billo to express what liberalism means to them. Come on...somebody must know. Is it really that hard?

Are you aware of how hollow your words seem to those of us who have the ability to think?

The platitudes just roll off the tips of your fingers like so many drops of oil in a rain lamp.

The founders....and the documents they created were COMPLEX. The desire for people such as you to see them as simple and without nuance is understandable. You desperately want to think that the problems we face today can be solved with a simple nod to the handful of words that you know from them.

Your forum name tells us all we need to know doesn't it? Your primary concern in life is that someone is getting some of yours. You sit there pretending that the starting line was the same for you as it was for someone born into poverty with uneducated and inattentive parents. Bullshit. There is luck involved. Where in this world you popped out.....something you had zero control over....has more to do with where you end up than the difference between your level of personal responsibility and that of the slacker who you imagine is gobbling up the fruits of your labor.

Entitlement culture? Buying votes? Basic human kindness as a form of enslavement? More bullshit. You ain't happy with what your draw in life plus your effort has combined to bring you. So you look DOWNWARD for a place to point. It is exactly human nature for a less than complex person to do that. After all, how can you convince yourself that someone who has reached a higher station in life could ever be part of your problem?

Conservative my ass.

Now....are you going to promise never to ask a the "what makes a liberal tick" question again........if I agree to give you a detailed answer?

Your exempted. I pretty sure no one gives a shit what you think.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Where do I agree with Conservatives? The Constitution directly expresses the Will of the People. The Founders were extremely clear in terms of what each article of the Constitution meant. It is not a tabula rasa, where each judge who looks at it gets to decide to change the Constitution's meaning to reflect their own biased political positions. It doesn't work that way. That is Judicial tyranny that Jefferson and Madison warned us all about. The Constitution can be amended. It folks think it needs to be changed, that is how you legally do it.

Also, we need to stop spending money we don't have. Stop with spending tax payer money and using it like a cookie jar to buy votes. That goes for both parties.

This Nation was built on two promises. A Bill of Rights and the opportunity to succeed or fail. There is no social contract where the Government promises people free shit. No welfare, no free healthcare, no food stamps, etc. These programs do not empower people...they enslave people. How is that for starters.

Now we are all still waiting for any liberal other than Billo to express what liberalism means to them. Come on...somebody must know. Is it really that hard?

Are you aware of how hollow your words seem to those of us who have the ability to think?

The platitudes just roll off the tips of your fingers like so many drops of oil in a rain lamp.

The founders....and the documents they created were COMPLEX. The desire for people such as you to see them as simple and without nuance is understandable. You desperately want to think that the problems we face today can be solved with a simple nod to the handful of words that you know from them.

Your forum name tells us all we need to know doesn't it? Your primary concern in life is that someone is getting some of yours. You sit there pretending that the starting line was the same for you as it was for someone born into poverty with uneducated and inattentive parents. Bullshit. There is luck involved. Where in this world you popped out.....something you had zero control over....has more to do with where you end up than the difference between your level of personal responsibility and that of the slacker who you imagine is gobbling up the fruits of your labor.

Entitlement culture? Buying votes? Basic human kindness as a form of enslavement? More bullshit. You ain't happy with what your draw in life plus your effort has combined to bring you. So you look DOWNWARD for a place to point. It is exactly human nature for a less than complex person to do that. After all, how can you convince yourself that someone who has reached a higher station in life could ever be part of your problem?

Conservative my ass.

Now....are you going to promise never to ask a the "what makes a liberal tick" question again........if I agree to give you a detailed answer?

Your exempted. I pretty sure no one gives a shit what you think.

Hmmm. I think you don't really want an answer. I think you want to continue believing what you believe. You are actually afraid to get an answer.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Are you aware of how hollow your words seem to those of us who have the ability to think?

The platitudes just roll off the tips of your fingers like so many drops of oil in a rain lamp.

The founders....and the documents they created were COMPLEX. The desire for people such as you to see them as simple and without nuance is understandable. You desperately want to think that the problems we face today can be solved with a simple nod to the handful of words that you know from them.

Your forum name tells us all we need to know doesn't it? Your primary concern in life is that someone is getting some of yours. You sit there pretending that the starting line was the same for you as it was for someone born into poverty with uneducated and inattentive parents. Bullshit. There is luck involved. Where in this world you popped out.....something you had zero control over....has more to do with where you end up than the difference between your level of personal responsibility and that of the slacker who you imagine is gobbling up the fruits of your labor.

Entitlement culture? Buying votes? Basic human kindness as a form of enslavement? More bullshit. You ain't happy with what your draw in life plus your effort has combined to bring you. So you look DOWNWARD for a place to point. It is exactly human nature for a less than complex person to do that. After all, how can you convince yourself that someone who has reached a higher station in life could ever be part of your problem?

Conservative my ass.

Now....are you going to promise never to ask a the "what makes a liberal tick" question again........if I agree to give you a detailed answer?

Your exempted. I pretty sure no one gives a shit what you think.

Hmmm. I think you don't really want an answer. I think you want to continue believing what you believe. You are actually afraid to get an answer.

No, it's just you.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Liberals: How Do You define What it Means to be a Liberal?

Fair and simple taxes.

Fair and simple regulation.

Transparency in all things politics.

Public budgets that are balanced by law.


I also feel strongly against Gerrymandering, but that's a detail in the transparency line. It's just particularly noteworthy currently.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Whoa! You are impressive. I had better be careful not to get into a discussion with you. I am especially intimidated by your cutting use of our language. I can tell that you are detail oriented....and rely on provable facts to form your opinions.

Yessir......the USMB nutter community needed someone like you.

Since all you have is an insult that must mean my point was valid.

Good to know that my point was spot on, thanks for verifying that.

What is your evidence that there is a consensus among liberals that the Constitution needs to be 'done away with'?

Given that most of you never spoke out when Obama kept changing the law, unconstitutionally, I'd say that's a consensus. The law I speak of is Obamacare, by the way. I have counted 24 distinct constitutional violations the president has committed over his 5 years in office. When it comes to abortion, the right to freely practice religion goes right out the window, via forcing religious institutions to provide abortifacients for their employees; that coming from Obamacare. You start a war in Libya, right over the heads of Congress... I could go on.

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Whatever upsets the norms of society is what liberal's are for

That's pretty fucking arrogant, [MENTION=18975]Tank[/MENTION] .

What makes you the expert?

 

[AVG-JOE]

I am asking this question very sincerely. Liberals...what does it mean to you personally to be liberal? How do you define your liberal philosophy in personal terms?

I ask this question for several reasons.


1. Many liberals express frustration on this message board that they are misunderstood. When they are criticized, the general response often seems to be "you do not know where I am coming from. You really don't understand liberalism."

2. I have found most Conservatives and Libertarians are very willing to discuss their personal political philosophy. Maybe this is a generalization, but liberals seem very reluctant to get specific about what liberalism is...and what it means to them personally.

3. Maybe if you were more willing to discuss what liberalism means to you personally, there would be greater understanding.

I will speak for myself. I am probably socially left leaning. I support gay rights and gay marriage (neither are any of my business) , I don't like abortion but would not refuse women the right to seek one (again, not directly my business). I am generally very tolerant of different points of view and say live and let live as long as you are not hurting anyone else. So socially I'm probably libertarian/Democrat.

Fiscal issues...Constitutional Rights, Gun Ownership, personal responsibility for your own life, I'm pretty Conservative.

See, that was easy. So you folks who see yourself as liberal...how do you define your beliefs? And please no links to 20 page Das Kapital position papers. This is what you believe.

1. I believe that left-right politics are an elaborate deception by the elite, to spark class warfare. The objective-divide and conquer.

2. It appears as though this tactic has been very effective; because partisanship seems to dominate many of the discussions.

3. If one is a conservative, I would think that he would resist being controlled by those who actually "run" this country.

4. Arguing ideals with another, is an exercise in futility.

5. If trust, confidence, and respect are missing...the masses will never unite. My hunch is, that most of our politicians have the same goal; and that isn't the well-being of the majority.

You're not too far off... but it's less of a divide and conquer, and more of a keep the peasants squabbling over social issues while the elite drain the resources of the future in to their pockets through government borrowing.

The sooner we strip from our politicians the power to spend money that they plan on the government collecting from the next generation, the better.

 

[Zander]

I am asking this question very sincerely. Liberals...what does it mean to you personally to be liberal? How do you define your liberal philosophy in personal terms?

I ask this question for several reasons.


1. Many liberals express frustration on this message board that they are misunderstood. When they are criticized, the general response often seems to be "you do not know where I am coming from. You really don't understand liberalism."

2. I have found most Conservatives and Libertarians are very willing to discuss their personal political philosophy. Maybe this is a generalization, but liberals seem very reluctant to get specific about what liberalism is...and what it means to them personally.

3. Maybe if you were more willing to discuss what liberalism means to you personally, there would be greater understanding.

I will speak for myself. I am probably socially left leaning. I support gay rights and gay marriage (neither are any of my business) , I don't like abortion but would not refuse women the right to seek one (again, not directly my business). I am generally very tolerant of different points of view and say live and let live as long as you are not hurting anyone else. So socially I'm probably libertarian/Democrat.

Fiscal issues...Constitutional Rights, Gun Ownership, personal responsibility for your own life, I'm pretty Conservative.

See, that was easy. So you folks who see yourself as liberal...how do you define your beliefs? And please no links to 20 page Das Kapital position papers. This is what you believe.

I don't find conservatives personally responsible at all. Nor do I find their actions in accordance with the Constitution.

They constantly blame others (Obama, the left, muslims, the poor, the unemployed, etc.) for many of the issues the nation is facing, without ever acknowledging their role (or contributions) in creating the problem.

As an example:

Economy - they won't discuss the actions (in office) Obama's predecessor had in the meltdown.
Foreign policy - they won't deal with that part of our foreign policy which is creating terrorists.
the deficit - they blame the poor, the unemployed, social programs, for the size of the deficit, instead of the Bush tax cuts, the defense budget and rich (who have sucked all the money out of the middle class with this non-job creating, non-producing, mythical economic instruments known as "derivatives").
War - they started two unprovoked wars of aggression, in violation of the Constitution.
Civil rights - they enacted legislation (the Patriot Act and Military Commission's Act) that nullified the Bill of Rights.
State Dept - they politicized the Dept of Justice​

You don't see the majority of conservatives accepting responsibility for any of that. And I'm not talking about 100% responsibility, because obviously the left played a role in all of that to, but "any" responsibility.

Liberalism to me is about being honest; believing in this country's core values; having respect for the rule of law; taking responsibility for your actions; believing people are free to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't affect the rights of others or is not against the law; and believing government's role, is to protect American citizens from harm, not corporations from Americans. Corporations should not have any voice whatsoever in government.

This country was not created for them, it was created for us.

Excellent post.

I don't agree with all of your points....But I I STRONGLY agree that individuals need protection from corporations.

There is way too much freakin' $$ in government.

 

[mskafka]

A liberal is one who wants the workers to prosper so they can be taxed and provide them (the liberals) a middle class lifestyle.

Both "left and right" make generalizations about each other. Just because someone is a liberal, does not mean that they are unemployed, dress like hippies, and smoke pot.

Just because someone is conservative, does not mean that they are EMPLOYED, Christian, and say no to drugs...like meth.

And people like Mitt Romney and Anthony Weiner, are enigmatic: "Nope! It wasn't me. They didn't see that. Carry on." No one is perfect.

 

[georgephillip]

If I had to reduce the progressive ideology to a single word, it would probably be "fairness."

But fairness based on what you emotionally reckon is fair.

Based on a belief that the most fundamental idea behind justice is the idea of society as a fair system of social cooperation from one generation to the next. Affirmative Action in higher education (at least at the beginning) was in response to the unfairness of an accident of birth giving privileged children and unearned advantage in education over those born to less wealthy parents, for example.

 

[Indeependent]

If I had to reduce the progressive ideology to a single word, it would probably be "fairness."

But fairness based on what you emotionally reckon is fair.

Is it fair that Bill Gates has been a de facto politician since 1998?