Liberals: How Do You define What it Means to be a Liberal?

[Wildman]

I am asking this question very sincerely. Liberals...what does it mean to you personally to be liberal? How do you define your liberal philosophy in personal terms?

I ask this question for several reasons.


1. Many liberals express frustration on this message board that they are misunderstood. When they are criticized, the general response often seems to be "you do not know where I am coming from. You really don't understand liberalism."

2. I have found most Conservatives and Libertarians are very willing to discuss their personal political philosophy. Maybe this is a generalization, but liberals seem very reluctant to get specific about what liberalism is...and what it means to them personally.

3. Maybe if you were more willing to discuss what liberalism means to you personally, there would be greater understanding.

I will speak for myself. I am probably socially left leaning. I support gay rights and gay marriage (neither are any of my business) , I don't like abortion but would not refuse women the right to seek one (again, not directly my business). I am generally very tolerant of different points of view and say live and let live as long as you are not hurting anyone else. So socially I'm probably libertarian/Democrat.

Fiscal issues...Constitutional Rights, Gun Ownership, personal responsibility for your own life, I'm pretty Conservative.

See, that was easy. So you folks who see yourself as liberal...how do you define your beliefs? And please no links to 20 page Das Kapital position papers. This is what you believe.

I don't find conservatives personally responsible at all. Nor do I find their actions in accordance with the Constitution.

They constantly blame others (Obama, the left, muslims, the poor, the unemployed, etc.) for many of the issues the nation is facing, without ever acknowledging their role (or contributions) in creating the problem.

As an example:

Economy - they won't discuss the actions (in office) Obama's predecessor had in the meltdown.
Foreign policy - they won't deal with that part of our foreign policy which is creating terrorists.
the deficit - they blame the poor, the unemployed, social programs, for the size of the deficit, instead of the Bush tax cuts, the defense budget and rich (who have sucked all the money out of the middle class with this non-job creating, non-producing, mythical economic instruments known as "derivatives").
War - they started two unprovoked wars of aggression, in violation of the Constitution.
Civil rights - they enacted legislation (the Patriot Act and Military Commission's Act) that nullified the Bill of Rights.
State Dept - they politicized the Dept of Justice​

You don't see the majority of conservatives accepting responsibility for any of that. And I'm not talking about 100% responsibility, because obviously the left played a role in all of that to, but "any" responsibility.

Liberalism to me is about being honest; believing in this country's core values; having respect for the rule of law; taking responsibility for your actions; believing people are free to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't affect the rights of others or is not against the law; and believing government's role, is to protect American citizens from harm,not corporations from Americans. Corporations should not have any voice whatsoever in government.

This country was not created for them, it was created for us.

thank you very much for your total DISHONESTY please read the Constitution and Bill of Rights before you spew more of your fucking jibberish, e.g., SECOND AMENDMENT !!!!

 

[WelfareQueen]

[/B]

I think that the vast majority of Americans have the same ideology as you described.
The problem is the Progressives in both parties who don't.
The progressives in both parties are not honest, do not believe in this countries core values, they have no respect for our rule of law or our Constitution.

I have never heard the term progressive conservative. I am not sure what that means? Do you mean the extremes of either political philosophy?

To me, a progressive conservative is one that has tolerance as it pertains to social issues such as gay marriage and abortion, but still believes in self reliance and small government.

Such as me.

Okay. I never heard the term before, but I am comfortable with those beliefs as well. I don't care what consenting adults do in their bedrooms and I don't have a uterus so I will leave those issues to women.

 

[georgephillip]

The definitions of liberal or conservative change over time as society's challenges change.

Sadly partisans seem to think that these words address specific issues facing their society today. (and ONLY those issues)

Hence they create a social menu to describe what these words mean.

If you fail to order enough from their menus, then you are THE ENEMY.

Have I mentioned recently the contempt I have for most partisans?

You guys and gals are TOOLS used then abused and abandoned by the masters the moment they no longer need you.

I wonder if "progressive" versus "liberal" is a distinction without a difference or something that should be sorted out before attempting to judge the relative merits of those who support the ruling ideas and those who question them?

"Progressivism is a general political philosophy based on the Idea of Progress that asserts that advances in science, technology, economic development, and social organization, can improve the human condition."

Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[WelfareQueen]

Is Obama a liberal? Or is he something different? Can any liberal on this message board help non-liberals understand. What are your core principles? What do you believe in?

 

[francoHFW]

OP- Like JFK said....

BTW, EVERYONE believes in personal responsibility, just not homelessness for millions when your greedy idiot heroes/corrupt cronies wreck the world AGAIN.

Yes, brainwashed one track whack jobs love discussing their moronic personal gobbledygook, because they certainly have no actual facts on their side, just pure pubcrappe from their HS grad charlatan demagogues...

 

[WelfareQueen]

The definitions of liberal or conservative change over time as society's challenges change.

Sadly partisans seem to think that these words address specific issues facing their society today. (and ONLY those issues)

Hence they create a social menu to describe what these words mean.

If you fail to order enough from their menus, then you are THE ENEMY.

Have I mentioned recently the contempt I have for most partisans?

You guys and gals are TOOLS used then abused and abandoned by the masters the moment they no longer need you.

I wonder if "progressive" versus "liberal" is a distinction without a difference or something that should be sorted out before attempting to judge the relative merits of those who support the ruling ideas and those who question them?

"Progressivism is a general political philosophy based on the Idea of Progress that asserts that advances in science, technology, economic development, and social organization, can improve the human condition."

Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is easier for me to wrap my head around the progressive label. To me it means spend like crazy and hope society can eventually come up with some new technology to save us from our irresponsibility. It is kind of a blind hope about the future, and ideas generated in the future will somehow save us from ourselves. I get that.

The traditional liberal core value system seems much more elusive. What does it mean?
What are the core values and beliefs?

 

[MACAULAY]

Liberalism is a deep seated Jealousy hiding behind a façade of compassion. Liberals are for the proletariat class solely to get their votes to help strip the bourgeoisie of the wealth they are so jealous of. For these Liberals, the Marxist description of the classes is appropriate, because Marxism is really where they are headed...they just won't admit it, as it has never worked anywhere in history. They don't care; they want to try it one more time--because they hate anyone with more stuff than them.

For the very rich Liberals, this does not apply. They are not jealous. They are motivated by Guilt instead and want to tax the rest of us to assuage it.

The psychopathology of all Liberals is either Jealousy or Guilt.

A key Liberal phenomenon is that the end justifies the means. They love Control; they think they are smarter than the rustics of the Heartland, and so any lie (See Lies of Obama) is justified to gain the Control they need to correct the perceived wrongs of society--the main one being the offense of having more stuff than they do.

In the end---they just want free stuff, for themselves and/or for their voting block. They are Socialists, even thought they deny it...and to the extent Control over the people is necessary to obtain their end, they are also Communists , even though they deny it....because Communism means, above all...Control.

Generally, they do not enjoy good mental health, because Jealousy, Guilt, and a Need to Control--are not healthy emotions.

They pose an existential threat to this Republic. See 17 trill debt run up buying votes.

 

[WelfareQueen]

OP- Like JFK said....

BTW, EVERYONE believes in personal responsibility, just not homelessness for millions when your greedy idiot heroes/corrupt cronies wreck the world AGAIN.

Yes, brainwashed one track whack jobs love discussing their moronic personal gobbledygook, because they certainly have no actual facts on their side, just pure pubcrappe from their HS grad charlatan demagogues...

Thank you jar jar. What is liberalism to you. Without the usual ad hominem attacks.

 

[gipper]

I am asking this question very sincerely. Liberals...what does it mean to you personally to be liberal? How do you define your liberal philosophy in personal terms?

I ask this question for several reasons.


1. Many liberals express frustration on this message board that they are misunderstood. When they are criticized, the general response often seems to be "you do not know where I am coming from. You really don't understand liberalism."

2. I have found most Conservatives and Libertarians are very willing to discuss their personal political philosophy. Maybe this is a generalization, but liberals seem very reluctant to get specific about what liberalism is...and what it means to them personally.

3. Maybe if you were more willing to discuss what liberalism means to you personally, there would be greater understanding.

I will speak for myself. I am probably socially left leaning. I support gay rights and gay marriage (neither are any of my business) , I don't like abortion but would not refuse women the right to seek one (again, not directly my business). I am generally very tolerant of different points of view and say live and let live as long as you are not hurting anyone else. So socially I'm probably libertarian/Democrat.

Fiscal issues...Constitutional Rights, Gun Ownership, personal responsibility for your own life, I'm pretty Conservative.

See, that was easy. So you folks who see yourself as liberal...how do you define your beliefs? And please no links to 20 page Das Kapital position papers. This is what you believe.

I am not a liberal or a conservative. I once was conservative, but have long been a libertarian leaning toward anarchism.

However, I find you views on abortion confused. You say a woman's right to kill her baby is not your business, so you accept it. Yet, you go on to say all is okay as long as you are not hurting anyone else. Does abortion not hurt someone?

I do not wish to twist this thread into one on abortion. But could not help myself.

 

[georgephillip]

The definitions of liberal or conservative change over time as society's challenges change.

Sadly partisans seem to think that these words address specific issues facing their society today. (and ONLY those issues)

Hence they create a social menu to describe what these words mean.

If you fail to order enough from their menus, then you are THE ENEMY.

Have I mentioned recently the contempt I have for most partisans?

You guys and gals are TOOLS used then abused and abandoned by the masters the moment they no longer need you.

I wonder if "progressive" versus "liberal" is a distinction without a difference or something that should be sorted out before attempting to judge the relative merits of those who support the ruling ideas and those who question them?

"Progressivism is a general political philosophy based on the Idea of Progress that asserts that advances in science, technology, economic development, and social organization, can improve the human condition."

Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is easier for me to wrap my head around the progressive label. To me it means spend like crazy and hope society can eventually come up with some new technology to save us from our irresponsibility. It is kind of a blind hope about the future, and ideas generated in the future will somehow save us from ourselves. I get that.

The traditional liberal core value system seems much more elusive. What does it mean?
What are the core values and beliefs?

The following might serve as a starting point for the core values and beliefs of progressives in the western societies during the late 19th and 20th centuries:

"The contemporary political conception of progressivism in the culture of the Western world emerged as part of a response to the vast social changes brought by industrialization in the Western world in the late 19th century, particularly out of the view that progress was being stifled by vast economic inequality between the rich and the poor, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism with out-of-control monopolistic corporations, intense and often violent conflict between workers and capitalists, and lack of effort by governments to address these problems."

I suspect most progressives would argue the lack of effort by governments to address the problems listed above stemmed from class conflict; those with the gold make the rules.

Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[regent]

Few of us are totally liberal or totally conservative, and that causes some confusion, add to that, the method we use to achieve our liberal or conservative beliefs are different so it results in more confusion. And what of guilt, anger, shame, and the other emotions mixed in with our L and C?
There are some core beliefs to liberalism and conservatism, however, and from these core beliefs stems much of our behavior, political and otherwise.
For example, Jefferson was essentially a liberal, and his desire for small government was a way or method to achieve liberalism, but small government is not a liberal or conservative belief but only a method to carry out the liberal or conservative credo.
I would suspect that how one feels about mankind is one of the core beliefs and a good start. These boards are filled with examples of core beliefs and the means given to carry out those core beliefs.
Finally there are a number of small books on political beliefs and they help out understanding, I'm sure I don't.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I am asking this question very sincerely. Liberals...what does it mean to you personally to be liberal? How do you define your liberal philosophy in personal terms?

I ask this question for several reasons.


1. Many liberals express frustration on this message board that they are misunderstood. When they are criticized, the general response often seems to be "you do not know where I am coming from. You really don't understand liberalism."

2. I have found most Conservatives and Libertarians are very willing to discuss their personal political philosophy. Maybe this is a generalization, but liberals seem very reluctant to get specific about what liberalism is...and what it means to them personally.

3. Maybe if you were more willing to discuss what liberalism means to you personally, there would be greater understanding.

I will speak for myself. I am probably socially left leaning. I support gay rights and gay marriage (neither are any of my business) , I don't like abortion but would not refuse women the right to seek one (again, not directly my business). I am generally very tolerant of different points of view and say live and let live as long as you are not hurting anyone else. So socially I'm probably libertarian/Democrat.

Fiscal issues...Constitutional Rights, Gun Ownership, personal responsibility for your own life, I'm pretty Conservative.

See, that was easy. So you folks who see yourself as liberal...how do you define your beliefs? And please no links to 20 page Das Kapital position papers. This is what you believe.

I am not a liberal or a conservative. I once was conservative, but have long been a libertarian leaning toward anarchism.

However, I find you views on abortion confused. You say a woman's right to kill her baby is not your business, so you accept it. Yet, you go on to say all is okay as long as you are not hurting anyone else. Does abortion not hurt someone?

I do not wish to twist this thread into one on abortion. But could not help myself.

I accept your position and freely acknowledge the contradiction. I work in an ER. I have seen babies spontaneously aborted at 5 or 6 months. They are alive. They feel.

Roe v Wade stipulated no late term abortions. I do not support that and feel it is barbaric. However, if I were female I would want the option of abortion if some asshole got me pregnant. My position is probably not logically consistent. But it is truly how I feel. I also respect people's opinion on the issue from both sides of the spectrum.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I wonder if "progressive" versus "liberal" is a distinction without a difference or something that should be sorted out before attempting to judge the relative merits of those who support the ruling ideas and those who question them?

"Progressivism is a general political philosophy based on the Idea of Progress that asserts that advances in science, technology, economic development, and social organization, can improve the human condition."

Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is easier for me to wrap my head around the progressive label. To me it means spend like crazy and hope society can eventually come up with some new technology to save us from our irresponsibility. It is kind of a blind hope about the future, and ideas generated in the future will somehow save us from ourselves. I get that.

The traditional liberal core value system seems much more elusive. What does it mean?
What are the core values and beliefs?

The following might serve as a starting point for the core values and beliefs of progressives in the western societies during the late 19th and 20th centuries:

"The contemporary political conception of progressivism in the culture of the Western world emerged as part of a response to the vast social changes brought by industrialization in the Western world in the late 19th century, particularly out of the view that progress was being stifled by vast economic inequality between the rich and the poor, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism with out-of-control monopolistic corporations, intense and often violent conflict between workers and capitalists, and lack of effort by governments to address these problems."

I suspect most progressives would argue the lack of effort by governments to address the problems listed above stemmed from class conflict; those with the gold make the rules.

Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Money has always ruled politics. It always will. But the Democrats are just as paid off as the Republicans. Do liberals not see this?

None of our Representatives really look out for the little guy. The Dems pay lip service to the little guy to buy votes, but then pocket the money Corporations and Unions give to them. The Republicans do the same, but at least they don't try to blatantly buy votes with our money.

 

[peach174]

To me Progressives in both parties are for larger Government programs that are passed and are unfunded and put their parties interest over what is best for our Nation.
The politicians in both parties who are for the power of the Government, rather than power of the people.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Okay...well, I'm off to work. Still no liberals other than Billo seem to be willing to say what liberalism means to them and define their beliefs. I will say again....I find this stunning.

Libertarians and Conservatives can do this all day long and have no problem with it. The fact liberals seem to run and hide when a simple question is asked about what their beliefs are does not speak well for them in my opinion. Do you not know what you believe, or are you just afraid to be honest about it?

Personally, I respect anyone who stands up for their beliefs. If you will not, or cannot....this is not good.

 

[WelfareQueen]

To me Progressives in both parties are for larger Government programs that are passed and are unfunded and put their parties interest over what is best for our Nation.
The politicians in both parties who are for the power of the Government, rather than power of the people.

Okay, I see your point now. Yeah...I gotta agree.

 

[Indeependent]

I am asking this question very sincerely. Liberals...what does it mean to you personally to be liberal? How do you define your liberal philosophy in personal terms?

I ask this question for several reasons.


1. Many liberals express frustration on this message board that they are misunderstood. When they are criticized, the general response often seems to be "you do not know where I am coming from. You really don't understand liberalism."

2. I have found most Conservatives and Libertarians are very willing to discuss their personal political philosophy. Maybe this is a generalization, but liberals seem very reluctant to get specific about what liberalism is...and what it means to them personally.

3. Maybe if you were more willing to discuss what liberalism means to you personally, there would be greater understanding.

I will speak for myself. I am probably socially left leaning. I support gay rights and gay marriage (neither are any of my business) , I don't like abortion but would not refuse women the right to seek one (again, not directly my business). I am generally very tolerant of different points of view and say live and let live as long as you are not hurting anyone else. So socially I'm probably libertarian/Democrat.

Fiscal issues...Constitutional Rights, Gun Ownership, personal responsibility for your own life, I'm pretty Conservative.

See, that was easy. So you folks who see yourself as liberal...how do you define your beliefs? And please no links to 20 page Das Kapital position papers. This is what you believe.

I don't find conservatives personally responsible at all. Nor do I find their actions in accordance with the Constitution.

They constantly blame others (Obama, the left, muslims, the poor, the unemployed, etc.) for many of the issues the nation is facing, without ever acknowledging their role (or contributions) in creating the problem.

As an example:

Economy - they won't discuss the actions (in office) Obama's predecessor had in the meltdown.
Foreign policy - they won't deal with that part of our foreign policy which is creating terrorists.
the deficit - they blame the poor, the unemployed, social programs, for the size of the deficit, instead of the Bush tax cuts, the defense budget and rich (who have sucked all the money out of the middle class with this non-job creating, non-producing, mythical economic instruments known as "derivatives").
War - they started two unprovoked wars of aggression, in violation of the Constitution.
Civil rights - they enacted legislation (the Patriot Act and Military Commission's Act) that nullified the Bill of Rights.
State Dept - they politicized the Dept of Justice​

You don't see the majority of conservatives accepting responsibility for any of that. And I'm not talking about 100% responsibility, because obviously the left played a role in all of that to, but "any" responsibility.

Liberalism to me is about being honest; believing in this country's core values; having respect for the rule of law; taking responsibility for your actions; believing people are free to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't affect the rights of others or is not against the law; and believing government's role, is to protect American citizens from harm, not corporations from Americans. Corporations should not have any voice whatsoever in government.

This country was not created for them, it was created for us.

An excellent post except the Patriot Act has been around almost since the inception of the US.

I am a pretty much a Conservative who believes in Comparative Advantage and has therefore been labeled as a Flaming Liberal by most other Free Trade Conservative.

Liberals publicly exhibit too much care about everything and everyone.
Conservatives exhibit care about nothing but unbridled Liberty.

 

[oldfart]

I don't find conservatives personally responsible at all. Nor do I find their actions in accordance with the Constitution.

They constantly blame others (Obama, the left, muslims, the poor, the unemployed, etc.) for many of the issues the nation is facing, without ever acknowledging their role (or contributions) in creating the problem.

Personally, I think the Left has wised up to the fact that the Right has been able to make the term "liberal" into a straw man for whatever negative arguments can be made against left policies. This is why the Left has brought back the term "progressive". To me, "liberal" refers to the philosophical radicals of the Enlightenment like James Mill or Jeremy Bentham. The same thing happens to the term "socialist" where maybe 3% of the Right understands the difference between the Marxist parties and the Fabian movement. If all socialists are Marxists, then all conservatives are monarchists.

Liberalism to me is about being honest; believing in this country's core values; having respect for the rule of law; taking responsibility for your actions; believing people are free to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't affect the rights of others or is not against the law; and believing government's role, is to protect American citizens from harm, not corporations from Americans. Corporations should not have any voice whatsoever in government.

I would agree with most of your comments. Here is what I would add in broadly defining the Left:

1. The Left should be pragmatic. If something doesn't work and we don't know how to fix it; try something else. Let the Right be the rigidly ideological movement and let the Left be the movement of humanism and problem solving.

2. Acknowledge that power has a tendency to agglomerate and it will take continuous public policy to avoid escalating concentration of power. Adam Smith had it right. It does not matter if the power is political or economic, they are fungible now. It does not matter what values the people possessing the power have. People in power will always be able to rationalize their actions. The concentration of power is evil in itself.

If this sounds libertarian or conservative to some; it is. The difference is that the Right has become intellectually and ethically bankrupt, as you have noted. The speak the language but only use the principals when defending their self-interest. The people the Right like to quote would be their greatest opponents.

This country was not created for them, it was created for us.

This country is for all of us. We are not throwing anyone under the bus, as the Right constantly attempts to do. We believe in Social Security even for the affluent. We believe in voting rights for everyone with the franchise as widely defined as possible.

Peace.

 

[Indeependent]

I call Free Market Conservatives "Portfolio Conservatives" because that's what it comes to for them.

 

[oldfart]

An excellent post except the Patriot Act has been around almost since the inception of the US.

Alien and Sedition Acts anyone?

I am a pretty much a Conservative who believes in Comparative Advantage and has therefore been labeled as a Flaming Liberal by most other Free Trade Conservative.

This is the result of the fact that there is no longer is any coherent conservative political or economic philosophy. Each wave of conservative thought has been increasingly radical/reactionary and has labelled all previous waves as unacceptable. Ayn Rand has replaced Hayek and gibberish has replace Milton Friedman. I started a thread in the Economics forum about Marty Feldstein's NYT op-ed piece, asking if he will be drummed out of conservatism, who will replace him, and what conservative political economy means now. Not a single response. Sometimes when people cannot articulate a set of principals and policies it is because they have none, just opportunism. This is the Right today. Ted Cruz is already being fed to the wolves for being insufficiently reactionary and those who hound him will probably be declared inadequately pure in their own time.
It sounds like this is what happened to you. Miss a memo and you are trashed.

Liberals publicly exhibit too much care about everything and everyone. Conservatives exhibit care about nothing but unbridled Liberty.

I hope it's not that grim. The inability of our political system to actually address and solve problems has not always been this impaired. The striking increases in inequality are relatively recent. Both can be fixed.