Liberals Are Ruining Sports

[candycorn]

Turn off the sound and turn on your local radio station that is broadcasting the game. That what I use to do back when we fans in Houston were able to see our teams on television(after the city built two new stadiums). Now I've turn to Hockey and Soccer.........

Can't wait for the Football season, I don't care what they say.

If people would give soccer a chance, they'd appreciate that it lasts about 2 hours in total; there isn't this maddening instant replay on every play, teams lose with dignity and win with class.

No thanks, too slow. I'd rather watch paint dry.

Really,

Serious question; what is your primary beef with soccer?

 

[Pogo]

Turn off the sound and turn on your local radio station that is broadcasting the game. That what I use to do back when we fans in Houston were able to see our teams on television(after the city built two new stadiums). Now I've turn to Hockey and Soccer.........

Can't wait for the Football season, I don't care what they say.

If people would give soccer a chance, they'd appreciate that it lasts about 2 hours in total; there isn't this maddening instant replay on every play, teams lose with dignity and win with class.

No thanks, too slow. I'd rather watch paint dry.

I have to agree. We played it in high school and it was the most boring event in gym class. I keep thinking "what are arms for again?"

I guess aficionados of the sport see some nuance in there but it's lost on me.

 

[candycorn]

If people would give soccer a chance, they'd appreciate that it lasts about 2 hours in total; there isn't this maddening instant replay on every play, teams lose with dignity and win with class.

No thanks, too slow. I'd rather watch paint dry.

I have to agree. We played it in high school and it was the most boring event in gym class. I keep thinking "what are arms for again?"

I guess aficionados of the sport see some nuance in there but it's lost on me.

I think it's because Americans are, by and large, not good at it compared to other nations so it's thought of as a lesser sport. Foreign drivers usually dominate Indy racing and, as a result, you've seen NASCAR replace it in popularity with different machinery that basically eliminates a lot of the strategy strategy formula one racers have to rely on.

I will say this about your comment; it's probably more remarkable that one can score a goal against someone able to use their arms when you are not able to...would you not agree?

 

[Pogo]

No thanks, too slow. I'd rather watch paint dry.

I have to agree. We played it in high school and it was the most boring event in gym class. I keep thinking "what are arms for again?"

I guess aficionados of the sport see some nuance in there but it's lost on me.

I think it's because Americans are, by and large, not good at it compared to other nations so it's thought of as a lesser sport. Foreign drivers usually dominate Indy racing and, as a result, you've seen NASCAR replace it in popularity with different machinery that basically eliminates a lot of the strategy strategy formula one racers have to rely on.

I will say this about your comment; it's probably more remarkable that one can score a goal against someone able to use their arms when you are not able to...would you not agree?

Never thought about that -- I just don't see the point of walking around with perfectly good arms (which I can use very well btw, throwing, catching, batting) and then not using them. Might as well not even go out there.

 

[candycorn]

I have to agree. We played it in high school and it was the most boring event in gym class. I keep thinking "what are arms for again?"

I guess aficionados of the sport see some nuance in there but it's lost on me.

I think it's because Americans are, by and large, not good at it compared to other nations so it's thought of as a lesser sport. Foreign drivers usually dominate Indy racing and, as a result, you've seen NASCAR replace it in popularity with different machinery that basically eliminates a lot of the strategy strategy formula one racers have to rely on.

I will say this about your comment; it's probably more remarkable that one can score a goal against someone able to use their arms when you are not able to...would you not agree?

Never thought about that -- I just don't see the point of walking around with perfectly good arms (which I can use very well btw, throwing, catching, batting) and then not using them. Might as well not even go out there.

Okay...different strokes for diffent folks.

Quick question; Do you think the sport of Soccer would benefit in popularity if they gave 6 points per goal then had a penalty kick for an "extra point" instead just counting a goal as one goal? A match of 4-3 or 2-1 would be 28-21 or 14-7 just like an NFL game because, after all, getting the ball across the endline is basically what a touchdown is; football just rewards 6 points and a chance at another.

What I don't like about football is the influence of television on the sport. Games that are scheduled for 60 minutes last 3.5 hours if you're lucky. Plays are reviewed that would turn a 2nd and 10 to a, gasp, 2nd and 8. Commericals on top of commericals after touchdowns, then after the ensuing kick off, then during the enevitable time out when the 4 substitutions come on to the field to relieve the lesser conditioned or injured team-mates.

Soccer, just to toot the horn about the sport I love, has injuries. During which, the club plays with 10 or can use one of the 3 substitutions they get during a game. Think about that...a team will play a player down instead of lose one of their prized substitutes. Can you imagine if you limited subs in football?

That grit is one of the things I admire. But what I admire more is what happens during injuries. Lets say the LA Galaxy were playing the Seattle Sounders. If Brandon Donovan of the Galaxy got seriously hurt and the Sounders had control of the ball; more often than not, the Sounders would kick the ball into the stands so that physical fitness can come onto the pitch to render aid. No rule says they have to do this but it happens time and again. When play is resumed, the Galaxy have the throw-in, they throw the ball to the closest Sounder and they give up the advantage. Again, no rule says they have to do this.

Just one last thing; I know I'm boring the shit out of you but here it is; last season Manchester United (aka MANU) won their league going away. After they clinched the championship, they played a London club called Arsenal. Aresenal lost their premier striker, Robin Van Persie to MANU in the off season so it was particularly painful to see the club that took your star player win the championship. But in soccer, the tradition is that you form an honor guard when you play the team that clinched the championship next, take the field first and applaud them as they come on to the pitch (usually both teams take the field at the same time). Arsenal's players did this eventhough they were at their home stadium in North London--a classy move that their fans didn't like one bit.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAHNXgPq9Og]Arsenal honor Guard - YouTube[/ame]

It would be good to see that sort of lesson being taught in the US instead of jacking up the score to simply impress some pollster somewhere.

 

[Pogo]

I think it's because Americans are, by and large, not good at it compared to other nations so it's thought of as a lesser sport. Foreign drivers usually dominate Indy racing and, as a result, you've seen NASCAR replace it in popularity with different machinery that basically eliminates a lot of the strategy strategy formula one racers have to rely on.

I will say this about your comment; it's probably more remarkable that one can score a goal against someone able to use their arms when you are not able to...would you not agree?

Never thought about that -- I just don't see the point of walking around with perfectly good arms (which I can use very well btw, throwing, catching, batting) and then not using them. Might as well not even go out there.

Okay...different strokes for diffent folks.

Quick question; Do you think the sport of Soccer would benefit in popularity if they gave 6 points per goal then had a penalty kick for an "extra point" instead just counting a goal as one goal? A match of 4-3 or 2-1 would be 28-21 or 14-7 just like an NFL game because, after all, getting the ball across the endline is basically what a touchdown is; football just rewards 6 points and a chance at another.

No. Without hesitation, I don't think it would make any difference. I don't see low-number scoring as a problem. If I did I'd be a basketball fan.

What I don't like about football is the influence of television on the sport. Games that are scheduled for 60 minutes last 3.5 hours if you're lucky. Plays are reviewed that would turn a 2nd and 10 to a, gasp, 2nd and 8. Commericals on top of commericals after touchdowns, then after the ensuing kick off, then during the enevitable time out when the 4 substitutions come on to the field to relieve the lesser conditioned or injured team-mates.

Oh no argument at all there. It is kind of structured though, in that a TV network can schedule a game for 1pm to 4pm and be reasonably sure they can engineer the game to fit. That's a flaw right there-- too regulated. The advantage of baseball over football, basketball, soccer and hockey is the time element -- in each of those clock sports, the last minutes in a game that isn't close is anticlimactic torture. Whereas in baseball you can be down by 15 runs and down to your last strike, and still win. Anything is possible.

Soccer, just to toot the horn about the sport I love, has injuries. During which, the club plays with 10 or can use one of the 3 substitutions they get during a game. Think about that...a team will play a player down instead of lose one of their prized substitutes. Can you imagine if you limited subs in football?

That grit is one of the things I admire. But what I admire more is what happens during injuries. Lets say the LA Galaxy were playing the Seattle Sounders. If Brandon Donovan of the Galaxy got seriously hurt and the Sounders had control of the ball; more often than not, the Sounders would kick the ball into the stands so that physical fitness can come onto the pitch to render aid. No rule says they have to do this but it happens time and again. When play is resumed, the Galaxy have the throw-in, they throw the ball to the closest Sounder and they give up the advantage. Again, no rule says they have to do this.

Just one last thing; I know I'm boring the shit out of you but here it is; last season Manchester United (aka MANU) won their league going away. After they clinched the championship, they played a London club called Arsenal. Aresenal lost their premier striker, Robin Van Persie to MANU in the off season so it was particularly painful to see the club that took your star player win the championship. But in soccer, the tradition is that you form an honor guard when you play the team that clinched the championship next, take the field first and applaud them as they come on to the pitch (usually both teams take the field at the same time). Arsenal's players did this eventhough they were at their home stadium in North London--a classy move that their fans didn't like one bit.

Arsenal honor Guard - YouTube

It would be good to see that sort of lesson being taught in the US instead of jacking up the score to simply impress some pollster somewhere.

Yeah, that's sportsmanship

Reminds me of this, which I still cannot watch with a dry eye --

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlKtI7yd_s]Softball player carried around bases by opponents - YouTube[/ame]

Of course, to find that video I had to sift through a dozen other much longer ones produced by Big Sports bent on padding the story into a near-movie to make themselves look good, which goes to your earlier point.

 

[Decus]

No thanks, too slow. I'd rather watch paint dry.

I have to agree. We played it in high school and it was the most boring event in gym class. I keep thinking "what are arms for again?"

I guess aficionados of the sport see some nuance in there but it's lost on me.

I think it's because Americans are, by and large, not good at it compared to other nations so it's thought of as a lesser sport. Foreign drivers usually dominate Indy racing and, as a result, you've seen NASCAR replace it in popularity with different machinery that basically eliminates a lot of the strategy strategy formula one racers have to rely on.

I will say this about your comment; it's probably more remarkable that one can score a goal against someone able to use their arms when you are not able to...would you not agree?

Watching Central/South American or European soccer teams play is a rare pleasure. Where else can you see great athletes perform feats that defy the laws of science, or merit serious consideration for an Emmy or an Oscar? Slow motion replays continue to demonstrate that professional soccer has more in common with professional wrestling than some would like to admit. How many times does the slow motion replay show that a player wasn't touched and yet despite his speed and weight, rolls 10 yards before stopping? The pain and agony evident on the player's face and not able to walk until.......the referee agrees to a penalty against the opposing team. Miraculous recovery shortly thereafter ensues.

Soccer players are among the very best athletes but the theatrics are an incredible turn-off.

 

[candycorn]

Never thought about that -- I just don't see the point of walking around with perfectly good arms (which I can use very well btw, throwing, catching, batting) and then not using them. Might as well not even go out there.

Okay...different strokes for diffent folks.

Quick question; Do you think the sport of Soccer would benefit in popularity if they gave 6 points per goal then had a penalty kick for an "extra point" instead just counting a goal as one goal? A match of 4-3 or 2-1 would be 28-21 or 14-7 just like an NFL game because, after all, getting the ball across the endline is basically what a touchdown is; football just rewards 6 points and a chance at another.

No. Without hesitation, I don't think it would make any difference. I don't see low-number scoring as a problem. If I did I'd be a basketball fan.

What I don't like about football is the influence of television on the sport. Games that are scheduled for 60 minutes last 3.5 hours if you're lucky. Plays are reviewed that would turn a 2nd and 10 to a, gasp, 2nd and 8. Commericals on top of commericals after touchdowns, then after the ensuing kick off, then during the enevitable time out when the 4 substitutions come on to the field to relieve the lesser conditioned or injured team-mates.

Oh no argument at all there. It is kind of structured though, in that a TV network can schedule a game for 1pm to 4pm and be reasonably sure they can engineer the game to fit. That's a flaw right there-- too regulated. The advantage of baseball over football, basketball, soccer and hockey is the time element -- in each of those clock sports, the last minutes in a game that isn't close is anticlimactic torture. Whereas in baseball you can be down by 15 runs and down to your last strike, and still win. Anything is possible.

Soccer, just to toot the horn about the sport I love, has injuries. During which, the club plays with 10 or can use one of the 3 substitutions they get during a game. Think about that...a team will play a player down instead of lose one of their prized substitutes. Can you imagine if you limited subs in football?

That grit is one of the things I admire. But what I admire more is what happens during injuries. Lets say the LA Galaxy were playing the Seattle Sounders. If Brandon Donovan of the Galaxy got seriously hurt and the Sounders had control of the ball; more often than not, the Sounders would kick the ball into the stands so that physical fitness can come onto the pitch to render aid. No rule says they have to do this but it happens time and again. When play is resumed, the Galaxy have the throw-in, they throw the ball to the closest Sounder and they give up the advantage. Again, no rule says they have to do this.

Just one last thing; I know I'm boring the shit out of you but here it is; last season Manchester United (aka MANU) won their league going away. After they clinched the championship, they played a London club called Arsenal. Aresenal lost their premier striker, Robin Van Persie to MANU in the off season so it was particularly painful to see the club that took your star player win the championship. But in soccer, the tradition is that you form an honor guard when you play the team that clinched the championship next, take the field first and applaud them as they come on to the pitch (usually both teams take the field at the same time). Arsenal's players did this eventhough they were at their home stadium in North London--a classy move that their fans didn't like one bit.

Arsenal honor Guard - YouTube

It would be good to see that sort of lesson being taught in the US instead of jacking up the score to simply impress some pollster somewhere.

Yeah, that's sportsmanship

Reminds me of this, which I still cannot watch with a dry eye --

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlKtI7yd_s]Softball player carried around bases by opponents - YouTube[/ame]

Of course, to find that video I had to sift through a dozen other much longer ones produced by Big Sports bent on padding the story into a near-movie to make themselves look good, which goes to your earlier point.

When they build the $60 million dollar stadium for that high school, they should name it after the two girls...

 

[candycorn]

I have to agree. We played it in high school and it was the most boring event in gym class. I keep thinking "what are arms for again?"

I guess aficionados of the sport see some nuance in there but it's lost on me.

I think it's because Americans are, by and large, not good at it compared to other nations so it's thought of as a lesser sport. Foreign drivers usually dominate Indy racing and, as a result, you've seen NASCAR replace it in popularity with different machinery that basically eliminates a lot of the strategy strategy formula one racers have to rely on.

I will say this about your comment; it's probably more remarkable that one can score a goal against someone able to use their arms when you are not able to...would you not agree?

Watching Central/South American or European soccer teams play is a rare pleasure. Where else can you see great athletes perform feats that defy the laws of science, or merit serious consideration for an Emmy or an Oscar? Slow motion replays continue to demonstrate that professional soccer has more in common with professional wrestling than some would like to admit. How many times does the slow motion replay show that a player wasn't touched and yet despite his speed and weight, rolls 10 yards before stopping? The pain and agony evident on the player's face and not able to walk until.......the referee agrees to a penalty against the opposing team. Miraculous recovery shortly thereafter ensues.

Soccer players are among the very best athletes but the theatrics are an incredible turn-off.

True and true-er.

Of course the only way a player gets carded is if there is something demonstrably egregious taking place on the field; a kick into the family jewels, hair pulling, a knee to the kidney or lower back (something that happened to me on the pitch almost like clockwork) gets no notice unless the victimized player looks like she was shot.

But you're right, stop the flop.

 

[Gadawg73]

Some do, some don't. The difference isn't night and day.


Of course, they are playing games too. This must be why athletes use college as a 1 year stop before going to the NBA becasue they love college so much.


Actually, you posted polls in some cases and a few facts. College is what; 3 months after a high school career is over?




I was finished pointing out how you mis-quoted your own source about 4 times. It's okay, I know reading is hard for some people.


I don't think I called you names...If I did, I apologize.



Private enterprise can do a superior job in this aspect. There are places where it cannot but this isn't one of them.



Speaking of personal insults...
"Everyone all over the world" huh....funny as hell.

Again, physical activity isn't the point I'm making so effectively; it's having to send your team across town to play another team. It's a luxury we can no longer afford as a nation and private enterprise could step in and do a superior job to the one the school districts have done.

Your getting angry does not change the calculus; you lose.

How many college players out of the thousands that play use college as "a 1 year stop" every year before entering the NBA?
3 or 4?

There were 39 as of last year; probably another 10 came out in the last draft.

Let me appeal to your reason and common sense:
Did you know that high school athletic programs are bound by rules that the athletic departments are required to allocate close to the same resources per athlete if they play football or soccer or golf.
Let me give you an example. The football program at a high school funds 90% of THE ENTIRE athletic department of that school from the gate on Friday nights.
And the football program DOES NOT get a cent of that gate, the entire gate goes to the athletic department of that high school and the visiting team's high school athletic department.
To field a varsity football player on the high school level on most teams these days including equipment, training, nutrition, shoes, off season training and camps is about $1500 a year, PER PLAYER.
The high school will fund about $400 of that. THE PARENTS have to fund the rest and the booster club raises the money through corporate sponsorships and fees charged the PARENTS. Additionally, the football field is the field the soccer team plays on and tears up each year, as well as the practice field, and it is football revenues that pays for that field.
Nothing against soccer as those kids deserve the same respect as any football player.
But facts are facts. Football gate on Friday night is close to 10K PER GAME. Soccer gate is maybe $300 PER GAME.
Do the math.
The parents of the football players raise over 150K each and every year to field a football team as taxpayers DO NOT fund the football program other than what the average amount per athlete in the high school gets no matter if it is tennis or football plus an equipment allowance which does not even scratch the surface as a helmet is $200 these days.
High school football funds 90% of the entire athletic budget of a high school other than the per athlete funds which are the same. No problem with that but that is a fact.
High school athletics are 3% of the entire school budget and the athletes make up a larger % of that and the money is well spent.

Its the same "math" that was used by some here to point out how the wars were funded in Iraq and Afghanistan. Citing the budget but not the supplemental budgets.

I'll take you at your word but obviously not every school operates the same way; sponsorships change from year to year, district to district, etc... You know this but...whatever.

I do know that our school had nowhere near $150,000 added to it's budget by parents of football players....the very thought of such an absurd figure is farcical on it's face. And the gate was nowhere near $10,000 per game. I won't ask where you get the figures since, by virtue of their being round numbers, are obviously either averaged or pulled out of thin air.

Whatever.

But getting back to Allen Texas and their $60,000,000 stadium, it would take what, 6,000 games to pay for at $10K a game? At 6 home games a year, that will be 1,000 years meaning that in the year 3013, it may be paid off or at least the principal would be. Your math; not mine.

Of course, that wasn't the funding mechanism they used, they used a bond sale which doesn't fit into the budget you mentioned above.... It was only $119,000,000 in new debt the citizens voted for in 2009:

The taxpayers of Allen can’t be too upset by public money being used to buff up the city’s image, because they are the ones who approved in 2009 approved the $119 million in bonds required to build the new high school football stadium, as well as a school auditorium and other facilities. The community’s growth ensures that the tax bite from those bonds won’t be too deep, but the issue, as well, is that the people of Allen, or at least a majority of them, want to guarantee that their school facilities are seen as first-class.

If you’re going to keep your community at a median income level at least double the national average, you can’t let things start looking a bit shopworn, and when you do build, you want to build big so everybody looks at you, and maybe resents your ability to pull this off, at least until they figure out how they can move in.

It sounds a lot like the kind of fluff that was taking place prior to the real estate bubble bursting, doesn't it?

Anyway, the point, yet again, is that the $60,000,000 is not being spent on anything except athletics whose benefits are arguable at best. Obviously, the priorities of spending 1/2 of all of the new debt on nothing that would benefit except a very small percentage of students are woefully mis-aligned.

You really are dense.
Allen Texas' stadium sells 18,000 tickets to home games. They have already sold 10,000 season tickets at $100 a piece. That is 1 million dollars a year JUST FROM THE VARSITY GAMES. Add in the visiting team and individual tickets and their revenue just off of varsity games will be 1.5 million a year alone on that. Their middle school teams are 4 teams, they have a freshman, a JV and a varsity; 7 teams total play a minimum of 34 games a year on that field.
The facility will also have a golf practice facility, a wrestling area for tournaments.
Bonds which are investments paid off by the gate receipts of this stadium will built it.
Not one cent of tax dollars is being spent on this stadium.
Voters voted for this by a 2/3rds majority and the area is thriving economically. All the 44 laid off teachers were hired back with an increase in the millage rate.

Please offer something, anything, someplace, somewhere based on fact.

 

[candycorn]

How many college players out of the thousands that play use college as "a 1 year stop" every year before entering the NBA?
3 or 4?

There were 39 as of last year; probably another 10 came out in the last draft.



Its the same "math" that was used by some here to point out how the wars were funded in Iraq and Afghanistan. Citing the budget but not the supplemental budgets.

I'll take you at your word but obviously not every school operates the same way; sponsorships change from year to year, district to district, etc... You know this but...whatever.

I do know that our school had nowhere near $150,000 added to it's budget by parents of football players....the very thought of such an absurd figure is farcical on it's face. And the gate was nowhere near $10,000 per game. I won't ask where you get the figures since, by virtue of their being round numbers, are obviously either averaged or pulled out of thin air.

Whatever.

But getting back to Allen Texas and their $60,000,000 stadium, it would take what, 6,000 games to pay for at $10K a game? At 6 home games a year, that will be 1,000 years meaning that in the year 3013, it may be paid off or at least the principal would be. Your math; not mine.

Of course, that wasn't the funding mechanism they used, they used a bond sale which doesn't fit into the budget you mentioned above.... It was only $119,000,000 in new debt the citizens voted for in 2009:

The taxpayers of Allen can’t be too upset by public money being used to buff up the city’s image, because they are the ones who approved in 2009 approved the $119 million in bonds required to build the new high school football stadium, as well as a school auditorium and other facilities. The community’s growth ensures that the tax bite from those bonds won’t be too deep, but the issue, as well, is that the people of Allen, or at least a majority of them, want to guarantee that their school facilities are seen as first-class.

If you’re going to keep your community at a median income level at least double the national average, you can’t let things start looking a bit shopworn, and when you do build, you want to build big so everybody looks at you, and maybe resents your ability to pull this off, at least until they figure out how they can move in.

It sounds a lot like the kind of fluff that was taking place prior to the real estate bubble bursting, doesn't it?

Anyway, the point, yet again, is that the $60,000,000 is not being spent on anything except athletics whose benefits are arguable at best. Obviously, the priorities of spending 1/2 of all of the new debt on nothing that would benefit except a very small percentage of students are woefully mis-aligned.

You really are dense.
Allen Texas' stadium sells 18,000 tickets to home games. They have already sold 10,000 season tickets at $100 a piece. That is 1 million dollars a year JUST FROM THE VARSITY GAMES. Add in the visiting team and individual tickets and their revenue just off of varsity games will be 1.5 million a year alone on that. Their middle school teams are 4 teams, they have a freshman, a JV and a varsity; 7 teams total play a minimum of 34 games a year on that field.
The facility will also have a golf practice facility, a wrestling area for tournaments.
Bonds which are investments paid off by the gate receipts of this stadium will built it.
Not one cent of tax dollars is being spent on this stadium.
Voters voted for this by a 2/3rds majority and the area is thriving economically. All the 44 laid off teachers were hired back with an increase in the millage rate.

Please offer something, anything, someplace, somewhere based on fact.

I'll just copy what was written before, you're becoming a caricature of yourself.

Anyway, the point, yet again, is that the $60,000,000 is not being spent on anything except athletics whose benefits are arguable at best. Obviously, the priorities of spending 1/2 of all of the new debt on nothing that would benefit except a very small percentage of students are woefully mis-aligned

Nice that the district hired actual teachers...imagine how many more they could hire with $60M? Oh wait, that wouldn't be fulfilling their mission of being an athletic powerhouse. My bad.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

If people would give soccer a chance, they'd appreciate that it lasts about 2 hours in total; there isn't this maddening instant replay on every play, teams lose with dignity and win with class.

No thanks, too slow. I'd rather watch paint dry.

Really,

Serious question; what is your primary beef with soccer?

Too simple.

 

[candycorn]

No thanks, too slow. I'd rather watch paint dry.

Really,

Serious question; what is your primary beef with soccer?

Too simple.

Fair enough.

 

[Gadawg73]

Years ago I decided to go to my first soccer game. I called down to the ticket office and inquired about purchasing 8 tickets to the game that day. I asked about good seats. "Where do you want them" asked back the ticket office woman. "As good as you can get me" I answered. "How about in the middle of the field 12 rows back." she asked. Fine I said and asked "what time is the game." She replied "what time can you all be here?"
So all 6 of us go to the soccer game and we park right up front. I bought 8 tickets but only 6 of us showed up so I put the other two tickets on my windshield under the wiper blade with a sign on a piece of paper "FREE TICKETS". The game started and the action is non stop, you have to be an athlete to play soccer. The clock runs non stop. Officials pull out cards of different colors and after a long while of them running up and down the field and kicking the ball to each other and a few missed shots the score at half time was 0-0. Ditto for the second half and about 4 minutes left in the game one dude kicked the shit out of the ball from an out of bounds end line and another dude made a nifty shot off of his head into the goal.
Final score 1-0. When I got back to the car to leave there were 16 other tickets stuck under the wind shield wiper.
First and last soccer game.

 

[candycorn]

How many college players out of the thousands that play use college as "a 1 year stop" every year before entering the NBA?
3 or 4?

There were 39 as of last year; probably another 10 came out in the last draft.



Its the same "math" that was used by some here to point out how the wars were funded in Iraq and Afghanistan. Citing the budget but not the supplemental budgets.

I'll take you at your word but obviously not every school operates the same way; sponsorships change from year to year, district to district, etc... You know this but...whatever.

I do know that our school had nowhere near $150,000 added to it's budget by parents of football players....the very thought of such an absurd figure is farcical on it's face. And the gate was nowhere near $10,000 per game. I won't ask where you get the figures since, by virtue of their being round numbers, are obviously either averaged or pulled out of thin air.

Whatever.

But getting back to Allen Texas and their $60,000,000 stadium, it would take what, 6,000 games to pay for at $10K a game? At 6 home games a year, that will be 1,000 years meaning that in the year 3013, it may be paid off or at least the principal would be. Your math; not mine.

Of course, that wasn't the funding mechanism they used, they used a bond sale which doesn't fit into the budget you mentioned above.... It was only $119,000,000 in new debt the citizens voted for in 2009:

The taxpayers of Allen can’t be too upset by public money being used to buff up the city’s image, because they are the ones who approved in 2009 approved the $119 million in bonds required to build the new high school football stadium, as well as a school auditorium and other facilities. The community’s growth ensures that the tax bite from those bonds won’t be too deep, but the issue, as well, is that the people of Allen, or at least a majority of them, want to guarantee that their school facilities are seen as first-class.

If you’re going to keep your community at a median income level at least double the national average, you can’t let things start looking a bit shopworn, and when you do build, you want to build big so everybody looks at you, and maybe resents your ability to pull this off, at least until they figure out how they can move in.

It sounds a lot like the kind of fluff that was taking place prior to the real estate bubble bursting, doesn't it?

Anyway, the point, yet again, is that the $60,000,000 is not being spent on anything except athletics whose benefits are arguable at best. Obviously, the priorities of spending 1/2 of all of the new debt on nothing that would benefit except a very small percentage of students are woefully mis-aligned.

You really are dense.
Allen Texas' stadium sells 18,000 tickets to home games. They have already sold 10,000 season tickets at $100 a piece. That is 1 million dollars a year JUST FROM THE VARSITY GAMES. Add in the visiting team and individual tickets and their revenue just off of varsity games will be 1.5 million a year alone on that. Their middle school teams are 4 teams, they have a freshman, a JV and a varsity; 7 teams total play a minimum of 34 games a year on that field.
The facility will also have a golf practice facility, a wrestling area for tournaments.
Bonds which are investments paid off by the gate receipts of this stadium will built it.
Not one cent of tax dollars is being spent on this stadium.
Voters voted for this by a 2/3rds majority and the area is thriving economically. All the 44 laid off teachers were hired back with an increase in the millage rate.

Please offer something, anything, someplace, somewhere based on fact.

Question...

Earlier you said this:

Did you know that high school athletic programs are bound by rules that the athletic departments are required to allocate close to the same resources per athlete if they play football or soccer or golf.
Let me give you an example. The football program at a high school funds 90% of THE ENTIRE athletic department of that school from the gate on Friday nights.

Now you're saying this:

Bonds which are investments paid off by the gate receipts of this stadium will built it.

So that "90%" funding is now going to debt service, right? Who is funding the 90% of the budget that is now missing and going to the investors?

Earlier you said this:

The parents of the football players raise over 150K each and every year to field a football team as taxpayers DO NOT fund the football program other than what the average amount per athlete in the high school gets no matter if it is tennis or football plus an equipment allowance which does not even scratch the surface as a helmet is $200 these days.

Now you're saying this:

Allen Texas' stadium sells 18,000 tickets to home games. They have already sold 10,000 season tickets at $100 a piece.

So after raising $150,000 to field the football team, the parents (presumably it is them buying the tickets by and large) are having to pay to see the games in the stadium?

 

[Gadawg73]

There were 39 as of last year; probably another 10 came out in the last draft.



Its the same "math" that was used by some here to point out how the wars were funded in Iraq and Afghanistan. Citing the budget but not the supplemental budgets.

I'll take you at your word but obviously not every school operates the same way; sponsorships change from year to year, district to district, etc... You know this but...whatever.

I do know that our school had nowhere near $150,000 added to it's budget by parents of football players....the very thought of such an absurd figure is farcical on it's face. And the gate was nowhere near $10,000 per game. I won't ask where you get the figures since, by virtue of their being round numbers, are obviously either averaged or pulled out of thin air.

Whatever.

But getting back to Allen Texas and their $60,000,000 stadium, it would take what, 6,000 games to pay for at $10K a game? At 6 home games a year, that will be 1,000 years meaning that in the year 3013, it may be paid off or at least the principal would be. Your math; not mine.

Of course, that wasn't the funding mechanism they used, they used a bond sale which doesn't fit into the budget you mentioned above.... It was only $119,000,000 in new debt the citizens voted for in 2009:



It sounds a lot like the kind of fluff that was taking place prior to the real estate bubble bursting, doesn't it?

Anyway, the point, yet again, is that the $60,000,000 is not being spent on anything except athletics whose benefits are arguable at best. Obviously, the priorities of spending 1/2 of all of the new debt on nothing that would benefit except a very small percentage of students are woefully mis-aligned.

You really are dense.
Allen Texas' stadium sells 18,000 tickets to home games. They have already sold 10,000 season tickets at $100 a piece. That is 1 million dollars a year JUST FROM THE VARSITY GAMES. Add in the visiting team and individual tickets and their revenue just off of varsity games will be 1.5 million a year alone on that. Their middle school teams are 4 teams, they have a freshman, a JV and a varsity; 7 teams total play a minimum of 34 games a year on that field.
The facility will also have a golf practice facility, a wrestling area for tournaments.
Bonds which are investments paid off by the gate receipts of this stadium will built it.
Not one cent of tax dollars is being spent on this stadium.
Voters voted for this by a 2/3rds majority and the area is thriving economically. All the 44 laid off teachers were hired back with an increase in the millage rate.

Please offer something, anything, someplace, somewhere based on fact.

Question...

Earlier you said this:



Now you're saying this:



So that "90%" funding is now going to debt service, right? Who is funding the 90% of the budget that is now missing and going to the investors?

Earlier you said this:

The parents of the football players raise over 150K each and every year to field a football team as taxpayers DO NOT fund the football program other than what the average amount per athlete in the high school gets no matter if it is tennis or football plus an equipment allowance which does not even scratch the surface as a helmet is $200 these days.

Now you're saying this:

Allen Texas' stadium sells 18,000 tickets to home games. They have already sold 10,000 season tickets at $100 a piece.

So after raising $150,000 to field the football team, the parents (presumably it is them buying the tickets by and large) are having to pay to see the games in the stadium?

You are a ham sandwich short of a picnic lunch.
The budget for a mid sized Georgia high team booster club is 150K
The Allen Texas team has a booster club budget of over a million privately raised dollars. The community supports the team same as the community there supports the local library, the homeless, the needy, the hungry and everything else.
Called community and neighborhood.
Something that before your time of government runs everything people looked to as the vehicle to get everything done.
Your bitching, moaning, crying and screaming is the new norm of society these days.
You have no clue about how things in the real world get solved.
Without spending a cent of the taxpayers money.

 

[candycorn]

You really are dense.
Allen Texas' stadium sells 18,000 tickets to home games. They have already sold 10,000 season tickets at $100 a piece. That is 1 million dollars a year JUST FROM THE VARSITY GAMES. Add in the visiting team and individual tickets and their revenue just off of varsity games will be 1.5 million a year alone on that. Their middle school teams are 4 teams, they have a freshman, a JV and a varsity; 7 teams total play a minimum of 34 games a year on that field.
The facility will also have a golf practice facility, a wrestling area for tournaments.
Bonds which are investments paid off by the gate receipts of this stadium will built it.
Not one cent of tax dollars is being spent on this stadium.
Voters voted for this by a 2/3rds majority and the area is thriving economically. All the 44 laid off teachers were hired back with an increase in the millage rate.

Please offer something, anything, someplace, somewhere based on fact.

Question...

Earlier you said this:



Now you're saying this:



So that "90%" funding is now going to debt service, right? Who is funding the 90% of the budget that is now missing and going to the investors?

Earlier you said this:


Now you're saying this:

Allen Texas' stadium sells 18,000 tickets to home games. They have already sold 10,000 season tickets at $100 a piece.

So after raising $150,000 to field the football team, the parents (presumably it is them buying the tickets by and large) are having to pay to see the games in the stadium?

You are a ham sandwich short of a picnic lunch.
The budget for a mid sized Georgia high team booster club is 150K
The Allen Texas team has a booster club budget of over a million privately raised dollars. The community supports the team same as the community there supports the local library, the homeless, the needy, the hungry and everything else.
Called community and neighborhood.
Something that before your time of government runs everything people looked to as the vehicle to get everything done.
Your bitching, moaning, crying and screaming is the new norm of society these days.
You have no clue about how things in the real world get solved.
Without spending a cent of the taxpayers money.

So since it was a total freebie, can you tell us why they stopped at $60 million for the stadium and why not every other district in the country is building one of these palaces?

That, in addition of course, to answering the questions....since you say that Football supports 90% of the athletic budget through ticket sales and now those ticket sales are going into paying off the non-existent debt....what/who is replacing the 90% that you swear was being supported by football.

The personal insults--you know the ones you said were a sure sign of someone losing--are entertaining but it would go a lot further if you would try to explain your spectacular stories about how the stadium is free (I'm sure the bonds just materialized out of thin air and need no collateral to back them up) and how sports is more important than mathematics.

 

[Gadawg73]

Old friend and war daddy I know was playing for the Atlanta Falcons in 1973 and I went to see them practice in the pre-season. They drafted a soccer player named Nick Mike-Mayer I believe in the last round, the 300th player taken. Mike-Mayer was a visa player from Italy and a graduate of some college up in the northeast. Norm Van Brocklin "the Dutchman" was the head coach. Now old Norm was an All Pro himself and old school to the core. He coached former Fran Tarkenton who was from and played for Georgia at Minnesota and hated the new age scrambling of The Mad Scrambler. Norm hated even more the proliferation of field goal kicking that had taken over the league. In a close game at the old Fulton County Stadium that year I was on the sidelines as a guest with the Falcons trailing by 2 with a minute and a half to go at the 15 yard line 4th and 4. Van Brocklin is having fits on the sidelines as Coach Bruney wants to kick the field goal and Van Brocklin wants to go for it. Giving in Van Brocklin sends in the soccer player Mike-Mayer to attempt a 32 yard chip shot. Mike Mayer shanks it wide left and Falcons lose by 2. Media interviews Van Brocklin after the game on his opinion on what he would do next time under the same conditions. "I would tighten the damn immigration laws". The following year Mike-Mayer was named Nick Miss A Mile by Falcons fans.

 

[Gadawg73]

Question...

Earlier you said this:



Now you're saying this:



So that "90%" funding is now going to debt service, right? Who is funding the 90% of the budget that is now missing and going to the investors?

Earlier you said this:


Now you're saying this:


So after raising $150,000 to field the football team, the parents (presumably it is them buying the tickets by and large) are having to pay to see the games in the stadium?

You are a ham sandwich short of a picnic lunch.
The budget for a mid sized Georgia high team booster club is 150K
The Allen Texas team has a booster club budget of over a million privately raised dollars. The community supports the team same as the community there supports the local library, the homeless, the needy, the hungry and everything else.
Called community and neighborhood.
Something that before your time of government runs everything people looked to as the vehicle to get everything done.
Your bitching, moaning, crying and screaming is the new norm of society these days.
You have no clue about how things in the real world get solved.
Without spending a cent of the taxpayers money.

So since it was a total freebie, can you tell us why they stopped at $60 million for the stadium and why not every other district in the country is building one of these palaces?

That, in addition of course, to answering the questions....since you say that Football supports 90% of the athletic budget through ticket sales and now those ticket sales are going into paying off the non-existent debt....what/who is replacing the 90% that you swear was being supported by football.

The personal insults--you know the ones you said were a sure sign of someone losing--are entertaining but it would go a lot further if you would try to explain your spectacular stories about how the stadium is free (I'm sure the bonds just materialized out of thin air and need no collateral to back them up) and how sports is more important than mathematics.

I did not insult you when I stated you were a ham sandwich short of a picnic lunch.
I will insult you now as I was wrong, you are 2 ham sandwiches short of a picnic lunch.
You know nothing on this subject.

 

[Oddball]

I'm no sure why you are saying this is a liberal-conservative divide.

Are you by any chance saying that conservatives support cheating, crime, etc.?

No, he's not.

What he's saying is that he's tired of chickenshit like political correctness in team names (i.e. Fighting Sioux), getting preached to about Goebbels warming and breast cancer as actual parts of the games and their reportage, trying to hijack the NFL to propagandize for purely political purposes (Obolshevikcare), banning chewing tobacco, the insistence that athletes pretend to not have human failings because some kids might foolishly idolize them, etcetera.

And I'm plenty tired of it too.