Libera Media Says Iwo Jima Photo Was Staged

red states rule

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In a desperate attempt to change the subject, the liberal media is now saying the historic photo taken at Iwo Jima was "staged"

Given the recent staged and fake photos taken and printed by the liberal media, they are now trying the famous "Clinton defense" that everybody does it.


http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003020085
Staged War Photos? Even 'Iwo Jima' Shot Faced Charges

By E&P Staff

Published: August 21, 2006 11:00 AM ET

NEW YORK The phenomenon of questioning war photos that seem too good to be true goes back long before the birth of blogs and the current controversy over pictures from Lebanon. It has even swirled around one of the most famous and honored war photos ever: the flag-raising at Iwo Jima during World War II captured by The Associated Press's Joe Rosenthal, who died yesterday.

Every few years, until recently, reports and rumors appeared that questioned the photo with some of the same charges heard today, concerning "staging." They were fueled by the fact that a smaller flag had been raised nearby earlier that day on Iwo Jima, captured by a different photographer but rarely seen.

But as with most of the allegations today, the theories about the Rosenthal photo were based on flimsy evidence or speculation.

The man most responsible for spreading the story that the picture was staged, the late Time-Life correspondent Robert Sherrod, long ago admitted he was wrong. Columnist Jack Anderson also raised questions, then retracted them. But the rumor persisted.

In 1991, a New York Times book reviewer, exploring a book on the flag-raising called "Iwo Jima: Monuments, Memories and the American Hero," went so far as to suggest that the Pulitzer Prize committee consider revoking Rosenthal's 1945 award for photography. That Harvard University book detailed the earlier flag-raising and the Marines' top brass desire to promote the second one. Debate raged about whether the Marines "staged" the second, more stirring, picture.

At late as the mid-1990s, Jack Anderson promised readers "the real story" of the Iwo Jima photo: that Rosenthal had "accompanied a handpicked group of men for a staged flag raising hours after the original event." Anderson later retracted his story.

Earlier, Sherrod, the Time-Life correspondent, had sent a cable to his editors in New York reporting that Rosenthal had staged the flag-raising photo. He suggested that Rosenthal climbed Suribachi after the flag had already been planted and re-posed the characters.

In the book, "Shadow of Suribachi: Raising the Flags on Iwo Jima," Sherrod is quoted as saying he'd been told the erroneous story of the restaging by a Marine photographer who captured the first, smaller, flag raising. Rosenthal rejected this explanation.

But it also true, as the 1995 AP story described it, that "it didn't help that the Marine Corps and most of the wartime press conveniently glossed over the fact of the first [smaller] flag-raising. This helped foster a public notion of cover-up."

"They call that the Iwo Jima flag-raising, which it ain't," declared Charles Lindberg, who in 1995 was the last surviving member of either flag-raising - in his case, the first. (Five of the 11 flagraisers were killed on Iwo.) "It's a good picture," Lindberg said, concerning Rosenthal's. "I even told Joe Rosenthal that it was a good picture. But me and him get into a few arguments." That is because Lindberg, like others in the first-flag raising, believed that all the glory was showered on the second flag-raisers, who were allegedly less deserving and faced less danger.
 

theHawk

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It is 100% fact that the famous flag raising caught on film was the 2nd flag to be raised. I wouldn't go as far as to say that it was 'staged', it was just them raising the flag again on another slope.
My grandfather was there on Iwo Jima and told me a long time ago he saw the first flag being raised before the more famous one.
 
OP
red states rule

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It is 100% fact that the famous flag raising caught on film was the 2nd flag to be raised. I wouldn't go as far as to say that it was 'staged', it was just them raising the flag again on another slope.
My grandfather was there on Iwo Jima and told me a long time ago he saw the first flag being raised before the more famous one.


Valid point, but this jerk is trying to cover the liberal media's ass by smearing the memory of the troops who took Iwo Jima.
 

Dr Grump

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Valid point, but this jerk is trying to cover the liberal media's ass by smearing the memory of the troops who took Iwo Jima.
How are the troops' memory trying to be smeared? Read the article..sounds like old news anyway.

Also, you better get a link or Kathi with ban you...seriously...:poke:
 
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red states rule

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How are the troops' memory trying to be smeared? Read the article..sounds like old news anyway.

Also, you better get a link or Kathi with ban you...seriously...:poke:


In a feeble attempt to deflect attention way photos that are staged and doctored, they are now trying to SMEAR the Iwo Jima photo.

Again, they are using the "Clinton defense"
 

Dr Grump

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In a feeble attempt to deflect attention way photos that are staged and doctored, they are now trying to SMEAR the Iwo Jima photo.

Again, they are using the "Clinton defense"
You have posted an op-ed piece about a subject that is historical (not the flag-raising but the controversy after its raising). Who is currently (ie in the past few months - hell years) trying to make this an issue in the MSM?
 
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red states rule

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The liberal media is tryingt o compare the raising of the flag to holding up dead children that the terrorists hide behind. As well as fake photos to spread their love and support of the terrorists.

It is a big difference.
 

Dr Grump

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The liberal media is tryingt o compare the raising of the flag to holding up dead children that the terrorists hide behind.
Where is this a story? Wash Times/Post? LA/NY Times? Fox/CNN/ABC/CBS?NBC?? Reuters? AP?Where? And is it a fully fledged story? Are all the wires/newspapers/tv stations carrying this story about Iwo Jima?
 
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Editor and Publisher Smears Iwo Jima Picture, Compares to Staged Lebanon Pictures
Posted by Greg Sheffield on August 21, 2006 - 13:10.
Editor and Publisher magazine sees one of its duties as protecting the reputation of the journalism profession, even if it means bringing up flimsy evidence against the famous WWII Iwo Jima flag-raising picture, saying that photo faced "the same charges heard today, concerning 'staging.'"

But the E&P staff admit that the evidence is "flimsy" and mere "speculation." So why bring up such charges against one the most memorable events from the war? To score a point: "But as with most of the allegations today, the theories about the Rosenthal photo were based on flimsy evidence or speculation."

In other words: Conservatives, don't attack our industry's photographers, because your treasured war photo could be accused of the same thing.

The phenomenon of questioning war photos that seem too good to be true goes back long before the birth of blogs and the current controversy over pictures from Lebanon. It has even swirled around one of the most famous and honored war photos ever: the flag-raising at Iwo Jima during World War II captured by The Associated Press's Joe Rosenthal, who died yesterday.
Every few years, until recently, reports and rumors appeared that questioned the photo with some of the same charges heard today, concerning "staging." It was fueled by the fact that a smaller flag had been raised nearby earlier that day on Iwo Jima.

But as with most of the allegations today, the theories about the Rosenthal photo were based on flimsy evidence or speculation.

http://newsbusters.org/node/7097





Great timing as well, Mr Rosenthal died yesterday and the liberal media is spitting on his memory

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209560,00.html
Joe Rosenthal, Photographer Who Shot Iwo Jima Flag-Raising, Dies at 94
SAN FRANCISCO — Associated Press photographer Joe Rosenthal, who won a Pulitzer Prize for his immortal image of World War II servicemen raising an American flag over battle-scarred Iwo Jima, died Sunday. He was 94.

Rosenthal died of natural causes at an assisted living facility in the San Francisco suburb of Novato, said his daughter, Anne Rosenthal.

"He was a good and honest man, he had real integrity," she said.

Rosenthal's iconic photo, shot on Feb. 23, 1945, became the model for the Iwo Jima Memorial near Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia. The memorial, dedicated in 1954 and known officially as the Marine Corps War Memorial, commemorates the Marines who died taking the Pacific island in World War II.

The photo was listed in 1999 at No. 68 on a New York University survey of 100 examples of the best journalism of the century.

It shows the second raising of the flag that day on Mount Suribachi on the Japanese island. The first flag had been deemed too small.

"What I see behind the photo is what it took to get up to those heights — the kind of devotion to their country that those young men had, and the sacrifices they made," Rosenthal once said. "I take some gratification in being a little part of what the U.S. stands for."

He liked to call himself "a guy who was up in the big leagues for a cup of coffee at one time."

The picture was an inspiration for Thomas E. Franklin of The Record of Bergen County, N.J., who took the photo of three firefighters raising a flag amid the ruins of the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. Franklin said he instantly saw the similarities with the Iwo Jima photo as he looked through his lens. Franklin's photo, distributed worldwide by the AP, was a finalist in 2002 for the Pulitzer Prize in breaking news photography.

The small island of Iwo Jima was a strategic piece of land 750 miles south of Tokyo, and the United States wanted it to support long-range B-29 bombers and a possible invasion of Japan.

On Feb. 19, 1945, 30,000 Marines landed on the southeast coast. Mount Suribachi, at 546 feet the highest point on the island, took four days for the troops to scale. In all, more than 6,800 U.S. servicemen died in the five-week battle for the island, and the 21,000-man Japanese defense force was virtually wiped out.

Ten years after the flag-raising, Rosenthal wrote that he almost didn't go up to the summit when he learned a flag had already been raised. He decided to up anyway, and found servicemen preparing to put up the second, larger flag.

"Out of the corner of my eye, I had seen the men start the flag up. I swung my camera and shot the scene. That is how the picture was taken, and when you take a picture like that, you don't come away saying you got a great shot. You don't know."

"Millions of Americans saw this picture five or six days before I did, and when I first heard about it, I had no idea what picture was meant."

He recalled that days later, when a colleague congratulated him on the picture, he thought he meant another, posed shot he had taken later that day, of Marines waving and cheering at the base of the flag.

He added that if he had posed the flag-raising picture, as some skeptics have suggested over the years, "I would, of course, have ruined it" by choosing fewer men and making sure their faces could be seen.

Standing near Rosenthal was Marine Sgt. Bill Genaust, the motion picture cameraman who filmed the same flag-raising. He was killed in combat just days later. A frame of Genaust's film is nearly identical to the Rosenthal photo.

The AP photo quickly became the subject of posters, war-bond drives and a U.S. postage stamp.

Rosenthal left the AP later in 1945 to join the San Francisco Chronicle, where he worked as a photographer for 35 years before retiring.

"He was short in stature but that was about it. He had a lot of nerve," said John O'Hara, a retired photographer who worked with Rosenthal at the San Francisco Chronicle.

O'Hara said Rosenthal took special pride in a certificate naming him an honorary Marine and remained spry and alert well into his 90s.

Rosenthal's famous picture kept him busy for years, and he continued to get requests for prints decades after the shutter clicked. He said he was always flattered by the tumult surrounding the shot, but added, "I'd rather just lie down and listen to a ball game."

"He was the best photographer," said friend and fellow Pulitzer Prize winning photographer Nick Ut of The Associated Press, who said he spoke with Rosenthal last week. "His picture no one forgets. People know the photo very well."

Ut's 1972 image of a little girl, naked and screaming in agony as she flees a napalm bomb attack during the Vietnam War, stoked anti-war sentiment. But Rosenthal's photo helped fuel patriotism in the United States.

"People say to me, yours is so sad. You see his picture and it shows how Americans won the war," Ut said.

Rosenthal was born in 1911 in Washington, D.C.

He took up photography as a hobby. As the Depression got under way, Rosenthal moved to San Francisco, living with a brother until he found a job with the Newspaper Enterprise Association in 1930.

In 1932, Rosenthal joined the old San Francisco News as a combination reporter and photographer.

"They just told me to take this big box and point the end with the glass toward the subject and press the shutter and `We'll tell you what you did wrong,"' he said.

After a short time with ACME Newspictures in San Francisco in 1936, Rosenthal became San Francisco bureau chief of The New York Times-Wide World Photos.

Rosenthal began working for the AP in San Francisco when the news cooperative bought Wide World Photos. After a stint in the Merchant Marine, he returned to the AP and was sent to cover battle areas in 1944.

His first assignment was in New Guinea, and he also covered the invasion of Guam before making his famous photo on Iwo Jima.

In addition to his daughter, Rosenthal is survived by his ex-wife Lee Rosenthal, his son Joseph J. Rosenthal Jr., and their families.
 

Annie

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How are the troops' memory trying to be smeared? Read the article..sounds like old news anyway.

Also, you better get a link or Kathi with ban you...seriously...:poke:
Where did I say this regarding anyone? When users have said they cannot provide a link, I've often been able to. I do so and remind them of this:

5- Copyrighted Material -All material posted from copyrighted material MUST contain a link to the original work. Proper format is to post the first few paragraphs and then link to the article for the rest. Please don't repost entire articles here.
Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 107 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html
There are a few, very few, posters who have a tendency to cut and paste large quantities of material, without attribution. Oftentimes, after the link is provided, one finds that they were trying to avoid listing a source that is not credible, or hateful.

I can think of only one poster that was told to start posting the link or...

Do not attribute that kind of misleading moderation behavior. Yeah, that is a warning.
 

Gunny

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Marine Corps History Class:

A small, personal US flag was the first flag raised on Iwo Jima. That flag raising is documented on film. No one officially or unofficially has ever denied this took place that I am aware of.

The second flag-raising, and the subject of Joe Rosenthal's famous picture was a larger, offical, US flag, and was carried out under fire. I have never seen it claimed to be the only or the original flag-raising.

Well, that is unless you learned your history from Hollywood movies which have depicted the second flag-raising as "the" flag-raising. I beleive they call that "liberal license" for the purpose of their story and/or due to time constraints.

Having personally stood upon Mt Surabachi, I'm more than happy to admit that I wouldn't have wanted to be there for the first, fifth, nor tenth flag-raising because in each case, the Marines and Corpsman who raised that flag were targets outlined against the sky to Japanese soldiers.

In other words, this is much adieu about nothing, and anyone attempting to downplay the bravery of those Marines and Corpsman that raised the US colors over a battlefield in the midst of some of the most hellacious fighting of WWII can meet me out back. We got something to "discuss."
 

Dr Grump

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Where did I say this regarding anyone? When users have said they cannot provide a link, I've often been able to. I do so and remind them of this.
To Chad...right here...post number four:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35261


There are a few, very few, posters who have a tendency to cut and paste large quantities of material, without attribution. Oftentimes, after the link is provided, one finds that they were trying to avoid listing a source that is not credible, or hateful. I can think of only one poster that was told to start posting the link or...
Chad did attribute it...to a person by the name of Martin Forman...

Do not attribute that kind of misleading moderation behavior.
I didn't. It's there in black and white.
 

Dr Grump

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That wasn't moderation overdrive. That was a blatant problem, as the contributing posts demonstrated. Truly Gump, get over yourself and biases.
Oh, I didn't think it was overdrive per se, just weird. No, there was no problem. There was a name attributed to Chad's post and you said it was plagerism (and unless he was claiming to be Martin Whatshisname, then it wasn't plagerism) - yet there was no edit to his post (unless there is some way of doing it without showing). If you look at RSR's post I gave him a hurry up at 2.44, he edited and put in his link at 2.46. How am I being biased - either they both have to attribute or they don't. If you only think one does, there is bias showing all right...and it ain't mine..
 

Annie

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Oh, I didn't think it was overdrive per se, just weird. No, there was no problem. There was a name attributed to Chad's post and you said it was plagerism - yet there was no edit to his post (unless there is some way of doing it without showing). If you look at RSR's post I gave him a hurry up at 2.44, he edited and put in his link at 2.46. How am I being bias - either they both have to attribute or they don't. If you only think one does, there is bias showing all right...and it ain't mine..
The bias was not being attributed to you, but to the thread of the conversation. In any case, you are diverting my time in defending, which is not fair. I do not get any compensation for moderating, no one does. Yet your post, originally put me on the defensive. Don't go there. I like to spend my time arguing about topics, not other. Thanks.
 

Dr Grump

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In any case, you are diverting my time in defending, which is not fair. I do not get any compensation for moderating, no one does. Yet your post, originally put me on the defensive. Don't go there. I like to spend my time arguing about topics, not other. Thanks.
Fair enough..
 

nt250

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That wasn't moderation overdrive. That was a blatant problem, as the contributing posts demonstrated. Truly Gump, get over yourself and biases.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me. You threatened to ban a user for plagerism when they had the authors name right on the post.

There are many sites that move articles off the main page so that a link may not take you to it even hours after it's posted, but to the sites main page instead.
 

Annie

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Seems pretty cut and dried to me. You threatened to ban a user for plagerism when they had the authors name right on the post.

There are many sites that move articles off the main page so that a link may not take you to it even hours after it's posted, but to the sites main page instead.
Read the link. :tongue1:
 

Gunny

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Attempting to compare purposefully photoshopping smoke into a photo to deceive the public to the flag raising on Iwo Jima is like comparing apples-n-oranges.

No one was trying to blow smoke up anyone's asses at Iwo Jima. An event was photographed, not fabricated.

The same cannot be said about some of the photos from Iraq that get passed around.
 

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