Let's talk about the rights enumerated in the 5th and 8th amendments.

[berg80]

The Fifth Amendment provides that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.1 Generally, due process guarantees protect individual rights by limiting the exercise of government power.2 The Supreme Court has held that the Fifth Amendment, which applies to federal government action, provides persons with both procedural and substantive due process guarantees. If the federal government seeks to deprive a person of a protected life, liberty, or property interest, the Fifth Amendment’s Due Process Clause requires that the government first provide certain procedural protections.3 Procedural due process often requires the government to provide a person with notice and an opportunity for a hearing before such a deprivation.4
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-5-1/ALDE_00013721/

The reason folks like me keep referring to Abrego Garcia's due process rights under the Constitution is because the 5th A makes no mention of a citizenship requirement for its application. Therefore, because he was not afforded 'procedural due process," his rights were violated.

Moving on, the 8th A is very straightforward.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-8/

Why mention it?

‘Obviously illegal’: Experts pan Trump’s plan to deport ‘homegrown criminals’
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...onable-proposal-deport-us-citizens-rcna201183

I think even trump fans would agree what we know about the conditions in El Salvador's CECOT prison constitutes punishment that is cruel and unusual by US standards. It was reported yesterday that trump has assigned Pam Bondi to the task of looking at ways to legally justify deporting US citizens, presumably convicted of crimes, to a CECOT prison.

A reasonable interpretation of which can be construed as her instructions being to look for ways to get around the clear language of the 8th A. Said another way, the AG of the United States is now willingly seeking a justification for violating the Constitution. Something she said under oath she would not do. The truly astonishing aspect of all of this being in the context of a trump presidency it's not astonishing in the least.

 

[rightwinger]

Trump is ignoring the Constitution and daring anyone to do anything about it

 

[Mac1958]

Trump is ignoring the Constitution and daring anyone to do anything about it

And the courts.

American neofascism is here.

 

[berg80]

Trump is ignoring the Constitution and daring anyone to do anything about it

And the courts.

American neofascism is here.

Both are true. The salient question being.........what happens next?

Will the slow moving march towards a full blown constitutional crisis (and autocratic rule), because it has happened incrementally, not elicit a reaction commensurate with the seriousness of what is happening? What will the Roberts court do next? What can it do?

 

[JoeB131]

And the courts.

American neofascism is here.

But, hey, Vichy Mac, you'll support it as long as the stock market is good and they get rid of "Woke".

 

[Mac1958]

What will the Roberts court do next? What can it do?

This will tell us where we're going. If the court helps Trump, it's over. If it tries and he continues anyway, we're in a full crisis.

Somebody in the GQP has to find a way to stop this. But I don't see anyone stepping up.

Orban's America.

 

[berg80]

Somebody in the GQP has to find a way to stop this. But I don't see anyone stepping up.

The way trump staged the post meeting press event with Bukele, surrounded by his cabinet, makes clear they are all cowed. So whatever dissent occurs, if any, will have to come from outside of the regime. I share your skepticism give the absolute lack of courage shown by all but a few Repubs. Liz Cheney being a notable exception.

 

[BluesLegend]

I love that Dems are still siding with RAPING, MURDERING illegals. Keep going Dems until your party is 20% of the vote.

 

[Correll]

....



I think even trump fans would agree what we know about the conditions in El Salvador's CECOT prison constitutes punishment that is cruel and unusual by US standards.....

I disagree. Instead, I think the conditions in OUR prisons and our streets, constitutes cruel and unusual because of our utter failure to control these barbarians and to protect civilized people from them.

And to be clear, I am referring to other criminals who have to share prisons with them. Some poor guy that made a mistake, but is still a human, being forced into close quarters with these monsters, is, imo, a real violation of his civil rights.


IMO, the CONTROL of these monsters that El Salvador has finally achieved, is more just and humane than what we have.

 

[Correll]

This will tell us where we're going. If the court helps Trump, it's over. If it tries and he continues anyway, we're in a full crisis.

Somebody in the GQP has to find a way to stop this. But I don't see anyone stepping up.

Orban's America.

When you supported letting in tens of millions of illegals, you set up this to be a messy crisis.

 

[Hollie]

The Fifth Amendment provides that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.1 Generally, due process guarantees protect individual rights by limiting the exercise of government power.2 The Supreme Court has held that the Fifth Amendment, which applies to federal government action, provides persons with both procedural and substantive due process guarantees. If the federal government seeks to deprive a person of a protected life, liberty, or property interest, the Fifth Amendment’s Due Process Clause requires that the government first provide certain procedural protections.3 Procedural due process often requires the government to provide a person with notice and an opportunity for a hearing before such a deprivation.4
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-5-1/ALDE_00013721/

The reason folks like me keep referring to Abrego Garcia's due process rights under the Constitution is because the 5th A makes no mention of a citizenship requirement for its application. Therefore, because he was not afforded 'procedural due process," his rights were violated.

Moving on, the 8th A is very straightforward.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-8/

Why mention it?

‘Obviously illegal’: Experts pan Trump’s plan to deport ‘homegrown criminals’
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...onable-proposal-deport-us-citizens-rcna201183

I think even trump fans would agree what we know about the conditions in El Salvador's CECOT prison constitutes punishment that is cruel and unusual by US standards. It was reported yesterday that trump has assigned Pam Bondi to the task of looking at ways to legally justify deporting US citizens, presumably convicted of crimes, to a CECOT prison.

A reasonable interpretation of which can be construed as her instructions being to look for ways to get around the clear language of the 8th A. Said another way, the AG of the United States is now willingly seeking a justification for violating the Constitution. Something she said under oath she would not do. The truly astonishing aspect of all of this being in the context of a trump presidency it's not astonishing in the least.

On the other hand, you were careful not to make any mention of US immigration code that makes illegal entry into the US unlawful.

What were the laws violated by Biden and the democrats who imported illegals with criminal records?

Identify for us the Constitutional amendments which protect illegal entry into the US.

 

[Moonglow]

I heard all of the GOP in Congress was neutered when Trump won.

 

[berg80]

I disagree. Instead, I think the conditions in OUR prisons and our streets, constitutes cruel and unusual because of our utter failure to control these barbarians and to protect civilized people from them.

That's the kind of trumpian argument that routinely gets laughed out of court.

 

[SeaMajor7]

The demented LEFT have gone ALL IN with their crusade for the "rights" of TERRORIST CRIMINAL ILLEGAL ALIENS over those of the American People.
Keep up the struggle, and make sure to amplify it LOUDLY all the way to the midterms.
Never change.
Never stop.

 

[Correll]

That's the kind of trumpian argument that routinely gets laughed out of court.

Perhaps. imo, that reflects more on the courts, than me.


If you were being sent into a prison to do some time, would you rather have ms-13 in charge of the yard, or the actual warden as in El Salvador MAX?

 

[berg80]

Perhaps. imo, that reflects more on the courts, than me.


If you were being sent into a prison to do some time, would you rather have ms-13 in charge of the yard, or the actual warden as in El Salvador MAX?

A false dichotomy is a logical fallacy that occurs when an argument presents only two options as if they are the only possibilities, when in reality there are more options available.

 

[rightwinger]

Both are true. The salient question being.........what happens next?

Will the slow moving march towards a full blown constitutional crisis (and autocratic rule), because it has happened incrementally, not elicit a reaction commensurate with the seriousness of what is happening? What will the Roberts court do next? What can it do?

Congressional Republicans fear Trump and will do nothing to restrain him

SCOTUS on rare occasion may stand up to Trump but Trump realizes enforcement powers are within his Justice Dept.

Trump doesn’t have to worry about elections. He can do what he wants

 

[berg80]

I heard all of the GOP in Congress was neutered when Trump won.

I remember seeing Repub congressmen duck and cover at the beginning of the regime when asked to comment on trump's pardons of violent Jan. 6 criminals in his mob. I knew then they didn't have the nads to stand up to anything he would do.

 

[Correll]

A false dichotomy is a logical fallacy that occurs when an argument presents only two options as if they are the only possibilities, when in reality there are more options available.

Correct.

IN this case though, there are only two sides. The left that wants to let ms-13 loose, and free to terrorize and kill, and Trump and Bukele, who want to see them contained like teh mad dogs that they are.

I would rather have my head shaved and have be cowed by the rough treatment we see in the vids on the MAX prison, as opposed to living in close quarters where ms-13 can dismember me.

 

[rightwinger]

The demented LEFT have gone ALL IN with their crusade for the "rights" of TERRORIST CRIMINAL ILLEGAL ALIENS over those of the American People.

Our constitution recognizes the right to face charges against you regardless of what you are accused of

Ted Bundy got a fair trial