Zone1 Let's actually DISCUSS the origins and intent of the "Due Process Clause" of the Constitution.

[dblack]

If you want to discuss the 2nd amendment. then start a discussion on it. This discussion is about "Due Process".

Hehe... alright. We'll not talk about that inconvenient point.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Maybe. I don't know the full story on Garcia, and I doubt anyone else here does either. I don't know whether, in his case, due process was followed or not. But what I keep hearing, from MAGA apologists, is that it doesn't matter. They're saying that those deported don't "deserve" due process. And that displays a complete ignorance regarding due process and why it's important.

More of the same from you libs…You create problems by any means necessary and then you get pissed when problem solvers handle your problem by any means necessary. Twilight Zone shit!
Lets take a look…You have treasonously placed tens of millions of foreign nationals in America because you gain power through illiterate desperate human beings…these plants follow no process as they break in against the will of the people…Then you expect good real core Americans to hold 50 million court hearings to eradicate your parasites because you know there is no mechanism for that…you know your parasites are here to stay if you can stand in the way of core Americans.
Do you really need to wonder why NOBODY sane takes your seriously when you scream “BUT BUT BUT…THE CONSTITUTION!!!”

 

[MarathonMike]

Hehe... alright. We'll not talk about that inconvenient point.

Your attempt to divert the discussion on The Origins and INTENT of due process is declined.

 

[dblack]

Your attempt to divert the discussion on The Origins and INTENT of due process is declined.

I just commented on the reasoning. It's the same as that employed by leftists trying to work around the 2nd amendment. And it's invalid for the same reason.

 

[krichton]

I agree with you, but offer a reality check: fascism has run this government for many long decades. That is, corporate interests, special interests (not the demos) have controlled the federal government for a very long time. It was not intended, is not de jure, but is de facto.

Corporate interests can't drag you away in a white van, in the middle of the night and deposit you in a gulag without ever having seen one judge, despite having protected status. If anything, in this case, special interests would probably be more in favor of illegal immigrants because it gives them a cheap labor base to fund their business.

 

[MarathonMike]

Corporate interests can't drag you away in a white van, in the middle of the night and deposit you in a gulag without ever having seen one judge, despite having protected status. If anything, in this case, special interests would probably be more in favor of illegal immigrants because it gives them a cheap labor base to fund their business.

What "protected status" did Tren De Aragua gang bangers have to be here? Green cards and H2A visas are available for non-residents. There are hundreds of thousands of them working here under those programs.

 

[KarsaOrlong]

Both the 5th and 14th Amendments contain the same 11 word phrase to define the term "Due Process'. Here it is:

No one shall be "deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law."

Now here are some very important dates relevant to Due Process.:

The 5th amendment was ratified in 1791
The 14th amendment was ratified in 1868.
The first Office of Immigration was established in 1891.

So let those dates sink in. The "Due Process" clause was written 100 YEARS BEFORE THE POSSIBILITY OF A PERSON BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. It was repeated again in the 14th Amendment to specifically defend the rights of freed slaves who were GRANTED US Citizenship.

I contend that these facts SUMMARILY INVALIDATE the claim that an illegal immigrant TODAY has the same due process rights as a US CITIZEN.

If you disagree, present a cogent argument as to why an illegal immigrant today has the same due process rights as a US citizen.

The argument is simple. The founders didn't construct a state that was exclusionary. For all their failings, ie, constructing a Westphalian state based on genocide and ethnic cleansing, they set up a state which gave rights to persons


The reason for this is simple. The founders understood that a state which had unlimited power could disappear someone without them being found guilty and without the public seeing the evidence.

Hence "persons" and not "citizens". The government can construct any defense it wants in this super authoritarian world you people seem to want.

You cannot allow the state to disappear people at will. It's anathema to the idea of freedom.

 

[KarsaOrlong]

What "protected status" did Tren De Aragua gang bangers have to be here? Green cards and H2A visas are available for non-residents. There are hundreds of thousands of them working here under those programs.

Prove they're gang members.
Prove they're not citizens.

That's what this is for. It's a protection for all of us from the big daddy state you conservatives want telling everyone how to behave.

 

[MarathonMike]

Prove they're gang members.
Prove they're not citizens.

That's what this is for. It's a protection for all of us from the big daddy state you conservatives want telling everyone how to behave.

The FBI has files on all of them. President Trump invoked the Alien Enemies Act to deport the Terrorist Gang Members and our country is safer and better for it.

 

[dblack]

You cannot allow the state to disappear people at will. It's anathema to the idea of freedom.

Exactly. And they don't understand that that is what they're setting up here. They seem to want ICE agents to have the power to deport someone merely on an accusation or suspicion. And they resist every. single. attempt to hold them accountable.

 

[MarathonMike]

The scare tactic that the Democrats are using will not work. There may be "one off" cases of problem deportations but I'll take a one in a million error rate to reverse the insanity of Open borders. I'm sure the Democrats are working up the next FAKE TRAGEDY now that Kilmar Garcia "Maryland Father" has turned belly up.

 

[krichton]

What "protected status" did Tren De Aragua gang bangers have to be here? Green cards and H2A visas are available for non-residents. There are hundreds of thousands of them working here under those programs.

A 2019 court order.