Latest Ukrainian Peace Plan From the US...Ukraine Surrenders, NATO Cannot Expand; Russia Gives Up Nothing.

[Mac1958]

I'm sure that if America were invaded by a foreign power, and that foreign power took over a couple of American states -- say, Florida and Georgia -- we would want to just let them have those two states to "stop the killing".

Right?

Between the two warring countries, I think I'll just support what Ukraine decides is best for its people.

 

[Zavulon]

I'm sure that if America were invaded by a foreign power, and that foreign power took over a couple of American states -- say, Florida and Georgia -- we would want to just let them have those two states to "stop the killing".

Right?

Mexico decided exactly that, when they had lost 2/3s of their territory. It was better than fight until last Mexican.
If, say, Alaska want independence just to sell it's gold and oil, independent California wants to have NPZR-community safe, and Texas wants to prevent illegal migration - Federal Government and American people may allow them that to preven bloodshed. But if Florida wants independence to make Cajun's French the only official and publicly usable language, and deploy Russian, Chinese or French nuclear weapons - neither Federal Government, nor American people may allow it.

Between the two warring countries, I think I'll just support what Ukraine decides is best for its people.

The problem is, that corrupted Ukrainian regime doesn't care about "their people". They just sell them, "unwilling, lead by incompetent" as cannon fodder to NATO.

 

[Zavulon]

Plain lie.

Prove it. As far as I know, you just modernise the old tank hulls. M1A2 SEPv4 was finished in 2023, new M1A3 are not in production yet, and even M1A3 won't be a scratch-new tank, just a modernisation of the old tanks

A few.

It depends.

Just WW3 if Russia attacks a NATO country.

And Russia will win it.

Wasting lives for very little gain is really stupid.

Elimination of the European threat isn't a little gain.

Putin is a vicious dictator. You can't sugar coat it.

I don't believe in Dark Lords, mentally controlling the hordes of Orcs, in Lich Kings, controlling the hordes of Zombies and in vicious dictators controlling the hordes of goons. It is not realistic even by Fantasy standards.

I think NATO membership is off the table. But, Ukraine can join the EU to cut all economic ties with Russia.

They can't. Actually, even the EU can't cut all economic ties with Russian Federation.

I'm not sure what type of "security guarantee" Ukraine will get?

There are only three things that can, more or less, guarantee safety of Ukraine - denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status.

Putin doesn't like US or EU "peacekeepers" in Ukraine, but that may have to happen to keep Russia from invading again. But no offensive weapons, like missiles.

German and Romanian "peacekeepers" mass-slaughtering Russian rebels and civilians in Odessa? What can go wrong? And without missiles they won't be able to fight local Russians, backed with local authorities and even SBU (who need rebels to properly do wrong things). The Grey market is already full of weapons, including the best NATo examples .

The EU can confiscate Russia's $300b if no peace deal. Russia can't do anything.

Russia can burn down Paris and Berlin.

Russia has no economic power. It sells oil.

Oh, Russia sells much more than oil.

BRICs is being punished by Trump's tariffs. China needs US markets more than Putin's stupid war.

Ha-ha-ha. China doesn't need American markets per se. China needs profitable deals, made on the American markets. And it is useless to visit American markets without a big gun or a bodyguard. Without Russia, America will simply steal all Chinese money they owe them. China, allied with Russia is unbeatable militarily and they know it.

 

[Zavulon]

I'm sure that if America were invaded by a foreign power, and that foreign power took over a couple of American states -- say, Florida and Georgia -- we would want to just let them have those two states to "stop the killing".

If Canada is invaded by Americans, protecting English-speaking Canadians from Quebec militants and Chinese migrants - they can live with it.

 

[Godboy]

Except they took it by force and shouldn't be rewarded.

How do you "reward" someone with something they already took? What youre really saying is, they should be forced to give it back. How are you going to do that? Ukraine has tried to do that for years, and theyve only lost more ground as time goes on.

 

[Hafar1014]

We need to pressure Russia and sanction their economy and give Ukraine the weapons they need. Bleed Russia dry destroy their economy so they will never be threat again

 

[kyzr]

Prove it. As far as I know, you just modernize the old tank hulls. M1A2 SEPv4 was finished in 2023, new M1A3 are not in production yet, and even M1A3 won't be a scratch-new tank, just a modernization of the old tanks

And Russia will win it.

No one can win a nuclear war.

Elimination of the European threat isn't a little gain.

Europeans aren't dying in Ukraine. Russians and Ukrainians are dying.

I don't believe in Dark Lords, mentally controlling the hordes of Orcs, in Lich Kings, controlling the hordes of Zombies and in vicious dictators controlling the hordes of goons. It is not realistic even by Fantasy standards.

Putin has ruled Russia since 1999, That is 26 years in power. He kills political opponents. He is a vicious dictator.

They can't. Actually, even the EU can't cut all economic ties with Russian Federation.

We'll see. Keep watching. The EU will isolate Russia.

There are only three things that can, more or less, guarantee safety of Ukraine - denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status.

We'll see if there is a peace deal. If not, keep seeing Russians die for nothing.

German and Romanian "peacekeepers" mass-slaughtering Russian rebels and civilians in Odessa? What can go wrong? And without missiles they won't be able to fight local Russians, backed with local authorities and even SBU (who need rebels to properly do wrong things). The Grey market is already full of weapons, including the best NATo examples .

Peace keepers just watch borders to ensure there are no further "invasions" by Russia, something like 2014.

Russia can burn down Paris and Berlin.

...and if Paris and Berlin burn, Russia gets destroyed.

Oh, Russia sells much more than oil.

Ok, they also sell shitty weapons.

Ha-ha-ha. China doesn't need American markets per se. China needs profitable deals, made on the American markets. And it is useless to visit American markets without a big gun or a bodyguard. Without Russia, America will simply steal all Chinese money they owe them. China, allied with Russia is unbeatable militarily and they know it.

Russia is bogged down in Ukraine. China has no reason to go to war, their mentality is more geared to the game of "Go", whereby an opponent is strangled slowly, strategically. The US very stupidly gave China the economic means to control the world economies.

 

[candycorn]

How do you "reward" someone with something they already took?

You let them keep it instead of taking it back....

What youre really saying is, they should be forced to give it back.

Yes.

How are you going to do that?

Build a strong coalition to hit Russia where they live. Arrest Putin associates when they travel outside the nation, bar them from international competitions; any number of ways.

Ukraine has tried to do that for years, and theyve only lost more ground as time goes on.

Yet 3 years later and Ukraine is still around. I know that pisses you off.

Good.

 

[Godboy]

You let them keep it instead of taking it back....

Yes.

Build a strong coalition to hit Russia where they live. Arrest Putin associates when they travel outside the nation, bar them from international competitions; any number of ways.

Yet 3 years later and Ukraine is still around. I know that pisses you off.

Good.

When this coalition starts to actually win, why wouldnt Putin use nukes to turn the tide? Before he even got to nukes, he would begin carpet bombing civilians with conventional bombs. Yes they already target civilians now (occasionally), but its nothing on the scale of carpet bombing an entire city. Putin could burn Ukraine to the ground if he wanted to.

Youre telling Trump not to accept the deal and instead have a coalition remove Russia. Where is this coalition? You may as well be saying "build a super duper powerful space laser to kill all the Russians". At some point you need to come back to reality. There is no coalition forming to save the day. It doesnt exist and its never going to exist.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There is a big difference between "having property" and "having financial activity". If you give your boyfriend a million dollar worth blowjob every night and he gives you the same, you may have 365 million dollar per capita GDP, but also you might be two homeless f@ggots. True wealth (in the meaning of property) is, first of all, land with its natural resources, and weapons to defend it.

Cool story.

How's that GDP per capita in your shithole?

 

[Zavulon]

We need to pressure Russia and sanction their economy and give Ukraine the weapons they need. Bleed Russia dry destroy their economy so they will never be threat again

Russia doesn't act here in the logic of profits and losses, like "losses are high, gains are low, let's alleviate and control damage". Russia acts in the logic of elimination of the vital threat. More significant is threat - more significant resources they will invest and more gambling plans they will play. Like, you know: "They are even more significant and stupid threat than we thought. Let's eliminate it". In practical terms it means that we are raising the ladder of escalation. And risks for the USA becomes more significant.

 

[Zavulon]

Cool story.

How's that GDP per capita in your shithole?

How about comparing square miles per capita?

 

[Hafar1014]

Russia doesn't act here in the logic of profits and losses, like "losses are high, gains are low, let's alleviate and control damage". Russia acts in the logic of elimination of the vital threat. More significant is threat - more significant resources they will invest and more gambling plans they will play. Like, you know: "They are even more significant and stupid threat than we thought. Let's eliminate it". In practical terms it means that we are raising the ladder of escalation. And risks for the USA becomes more significant.

Russia has an economy that must fund the war and meet the needs of its people. Thats their weakness

 

[Zavulon]

Russia has an economy that must fund the war and meet the needs of its people. Thats their weakness

Russian economy is backed by China and India. And the USA can't destroy their economies without destroying its own.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How about comparing square miles per capita?

You're right, your shithole is very large.

 

[Zavulon]

View attachment 1189140

It is not scratch-new tank. It is modernization program. And no, it was cancelled in 2023.

No one can win a nuclear war.

Why not? We can.

Europeans aren't dying in Ukraine.

European productive economy is collapsing. And without modern weapons (especially nukes and drones) any amount of European meat will be simply harmless

Russians and Ukrainians are dying.

Ukrainians are Russians, too. It is sad, but it's not a big deal. Our Army (and our future Army) are getting stronger.

Putin has ruled Russia since 1999, That is 26 years in power. He kills political opponents. He is a vicious dictator.

Wow. And Colonel Sanders, if I recall correctly, is a face of KFC since 1935. You should see the difference between managing and advertising. Oversimplificating, the real power in America belongs to billionaires, and most of those families keeps those money and power for many generations. Real power in Russia belongs mostly to backroom boys of the Deeper State (like, you know, Kitez-grad), and we have a silent revolution every three-five years. Presidents, both in Russia and America are mostly hired clown.

We'll see. Keep watching. The EU will isolate Russia.

They can't.

We'll see if there is a peace deal. If not, keep seeing Russians die for nothing.

Nobody is dying for nothing. At least it is better than from vodka and flu.

Peace keepers just watch borders to ensure there are no further "invasions" by Russia, something like 2014.

Wow. The Russians are already there for many centuries. If there is no denazification of Kievan regime, there will be rebellions with, or without permission of Russian Federation government. Actually, some of those rebellions will be inspired by SBU (Ukrainian daughter of KGB).
German soldiers came to Odessa, local Russian rebels start to kill them (with, or without Moscow's permission). Germans start to slaughter local population. Russia bomb German garrisons by cruise missiles and supplies local rebels. Germany declare war to Russia. Russia nuke German military installations in Germany. And here there will be a moment of truth for the USA. Attack Russia by themselves (and suffering unacceptable damage even in the most optimistic scenarios and total annihilation in the pessimistic ones) or refuse to attack and try alleviate (and it will mean the end of NATO).

...and if Paris and Berlin burn, Russia gets destroyed.

No. If there is the choice between paying 2.1 trillion dollar (seven dollars for every stollen one) and suffering total annihilation - you'll choose to return money.

Russia is bogged down in Ukraine. China has no reason to go to war, their mentality is more geared to the game of "Go", whereby an opponent is strangled slowly, strategically. The US very stupidly gave China the economic means to control the world economies.

Chinamen need military experience. And some of them are already there.

 

[Zavulon]

You're right, your shithole is very large.

Yep. And there are a lot of natural resources. And it means, than in the terms of having property and real-estate Russians are the most wealthy men on the planet.

 

[Hafar1014]

Russian economy is backed by China and India. And the USA can't destroy their economies without destroying its own.

Russia is using African gold to support its economy. China is in decline and India does buy oil from them. We can tariff India

 

[Zavulon]

Russia is using African gold to support its economy. China is in decline and India does buy oil from them. We can tariff India

Yes, you can. But international trade isn't charity. You hart them, it hurts you, too. And without Russia on their side, India and China will be much more vulnerable both militarily and economically. They know it, that's why they are not going to leave Russia. And even if they try, Russia will gone nuclear and finish the war much faster and in much more violent way.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yep. And there are a lot of natural resources. And it means, than in the terms of having property and real-estate Russians are the most wealthy men on the planet.

Natural resources? Awesome!
What's the GDP per capita?