Latest Ukrainian Peace Plan From the US...Ukraine Surrenders, NATO Cannot Expand; Russia Gives Up Nothing.

[Ringo]

The EU wants Russia punished for invading Ukraine.

Britain has invaded 171 countries.
France has killed 22 African President's since 1963.
The US runs more than 750 military base in 80 nations.

And you are worried about Russia?

 

[Zavulon]

78? What's with that weak ass shit?

It's quite comfortable for export and defending of inner production.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's quite comfortable for export and defending of inner production.

Your inner production is in the toilet.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Britain has invaded 171 countries.
France has killed 22 African President's since 1963.
The US runs more than 750 military base in 80 nations.

And you are worried about Russia?

Yes, Russia is much worse than Britain, France and the US.

 

[kyzr]

You've lost your industry because of the policy of "strong dollar".

Actually unfair tariffs hurt US manufacturing, Trump fixed those.
We lost 6,000 manufacturing plants to China because of cheap labor.
Now we're building many new ones here, especially for high-end manufacturing.

30 rubles per dollar was pretty bad for export and productive economy. And now Russia in 3 months produce much more ordnance than the whole NATO produce in a year.

Its actually 50 rubles to the dollar. Mass producing inferior weapons doesn't win wars.

It is not bluff.

Attack a NATO country ans see what happens.

We are not going to defeat "Ukrainians", we want to save them. That's why it is "special operation". We won't be that careful and gentle in case of a war.

Putin wanted to capture Kiev in 3-days, soon we will be in the 4th year, with 250,000 Russian dead.
Putin needs to retire. He's not a good leader.

Of course not. It was an independent country, before they (some of them) had sold their sovereignty to West, and their souls to Satan, figuratively saying.

Freedom to choose who you want to ally with is a very basic freedom.
Ukraine wants no part of belonging to Russia, and they prove that every day.

And Russia wants EU punished for stirring up Ukraine and support of Neo-Nazi Kiev regime. And the punishment is generally thought of mass executions of anti-Russian politicians on the central squares of European capitals and destruction of European industry.

The Maidan Revolution was by Ukrainians.
They prefer NATO to Russia. So Russia invaded them.
We'll see how it plays out.
Will the EU step up and stop buying Russian energy?
Will the EU confiscate Russia's $300b?
Will Russia's economy collapse?

 

[kyzr]

Britain has invaded 171 countries.
France has killed 22 African President's since 1963.
The US runs more than 750 military base in 80 nations.

And you are worried about Russia?

The EU doesn't like Trump's peace deal without "punishing" Russia for the invasion.
So how will the EU "punish" Russia?
Confiscate their $300b in EU banks?
Stop buying Russian energy?
Secondary sanctions? (punish anyone who does business with Russia)

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Britain has invaded 171 countries.
France has killed 22 African President's since 1963.
The US runs more than 750 military base in 80 nations.

And you are worried about Russia?

Sure, the whole world is. It's ruled by an insane little maniac who is making offensive nuclear threats.

 

[Zavulon]

Your inner production is in the toilet.

Ukrainians also thought so. And now two million of them are already dead and ten more million left their country.
Self-comforting approaches are nice, but reality is important and sober-thinking is vital.

 

[Zavulon]

Sure, the whole world is. It's ruled by an insane little maniac who is making offensive nuclear threats.

Those threats are not "offensive". We are fighting defensive war, therefore all actions necessary to defend Russian people are absolutely justified. And technically it is "Deterrence type II" or "Providing Multistability". Response on non-nuclear threats with nuclear weapons.
"If you do something extremely provocative, which is not direct nuclear attack, we are going to attack your nuclear forces, and degrade them enough to not allow you cause unacceptable damage to us, by any potential retaliation of yours".
From the moral point of view this is a threat to military units. Like you know, typical pattern of Russian propaganda - "The Valiant Russian Soldiers fighting mostly against military forces of the adversary and sparing civilian population, and covard and evil western degenerats, who prefer mass murders of civilians".

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

AP Reporting:

Ukraine would cede territory to Russia in draft of Trump peace plan obtained by AP

President Donald Trump’s plan for ending the war in Ukraine would cede territory to Russia and limit the size of Kyiv’s military, according to a draft proposal obtained by The Associated Press.

apnews.com

Some highlights (or lowlights) from the article:

• For example, the proposal would not only bar Ukraine from joining NATO but would also prevent the alliance’s future expansion. Such a step would be a significant victory for Moscow, which views NATO as a threat.
• Putin would also gain ground he has been unable to win on the battlefield. Under the draft, Moscow would hold all the eastern Donbas region, even though approximately 14% still remains in Ukrainian hands. Ukraine’s military, currently at roughly 880,000 troops, would be reduced to 600,000.
• Under the proposal, Russia would commit to making no future attacks, something the White House views as a concession.
• Russia would also be allowed to keep half of the power generated by Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, Zaporizhzhia, which it captured from Ukraine early during the war.

There seems to be little in it for Ukraine or the US. One has to wonder on what planet such a plan ever saw the light of day.

Please explain who and how Russia is going Russia will be forced to give up territory they gained in this war. We will be waiting with curiosity.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Ukrainians also thought so. And now two million of them are already dead and ten more million left their country.
Self-comforting approaches are nice, but reality is important and sober-thinking is vital.

The Russian people are used to having very little.

How's that GDP per capita in your shithole?

 

[Zavulon]

Actually unfair tariffs hurt US manufacturing, Trump fixed those.
We lost 6,000 manufacturing plants to China because of cheap labor.
Now we're building many new ones here, especially for high-end manufacturing.

And still, you can't make even new tanks.

Its actually 50 rubles to the dollar.

Fire your financial advisor or anyone who sell you 50 roubles to a dollar.

Mass producing inferior weapons doesn't win wars.

Really? And we have superior weapons, too.

Attack a NATO country ans see what happens.

Nothing unusual.

Putin wanted to capture Kiev in 3-days, soon we will be in the 4th year, with 250,000 Russian dead.

Capturing a city with 3 mln of population by lesser than 200K force in 3 days? Are you kidding? Previous time liberation of Ukraine took 3 years and more than 7 mln killed in action soldiers (say nothing about civilians).

Putin needs to retire. He's not a good leader.

He is not a leader in any meaningful sense. As Colonel Sanders is not CEO of KFS.

Freedom to choose who you want to ally with is a very basic freedom.

Yep. And nobody asked them.

Ukraine wants no part of belonging to Russia, and they prove that every day.

Don't tell for all Ukrainians. And most of them just don't have a choice. Borders are closed, you know, and NATO pay for cannon fodder. So, some of them just sell their compatriots as meat (pork, to be specific). Open boards. Defund them. And watch, how many of them will choose their mind.

The Maidan Revolution was by Ukrainians.

By very little group of Ukrainians, you know.

They prefer NATO to Russia. So Russia invaded them.

Russia can't allow NATO in Ukraine, whatever and whoever (especially Ukronazies) think about it.

We'll see how it plays out.
Will the EU step up and stop buying Russian energy?

May be. But it will mean a death of European industry.

Will the EU confiscate Russia's $300b?

May be. But it will be death of European financial sector.

Will Russia's economy collapse?

No. Russia allied with China and India is unbeatable economically. But, quite likely, Russia will eliminate at least French nuclear forces.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Those threats are not "offensive".

Putin's nuclear threats are 100% offensive.

I will invade my neighbor, and those who dare oppose me will be met with nukes.

It's precisely what Putin has done, else his incompetent and outdated military would have been wiped out by now. He knows it, the whole world knows it.

His offensive nuclear threats are the only reason we are even talking about this today.

 

[candycorn]

Freedom to choose who you want to ally with is a very basic freedom.
Ukraine wants no part of belonging to Russia, and they prove that every day.

a week ago you were saying that we should give Russia every single thing they want because "might makes right".

Perhaps I'll buy you a mirror so you can argue with yourself.

 

[kyzr]

a week ago you were saying that we should give Russia every single thing they want because "might makes right".

Perhaps I'll buy you a mirror so you can argue with yourself.

1. My "might makes right" statement is a generic truth, not saying Russia is right. A corollary is "to the victor goes the spoils".

2. A week ago my point was that if Putin gives up Ukraine, in any peace deal, that is a major concession by Russia. We'll see if Trump and the EU can put stress on Putin's economy so he takes the peace deal, otherwise the war continues indefinitely.

 

[candycorn]

1. My "might makes right" statement is a generic truth, not saying Russia is right. A corollary is "to the victor goes the spoils".

No its not a generic truth. If I pull a gun on you and blow your head off, does that make my taking your wallet "right" in your warped mind?

2. A week ago my point was that if Putin gives up Ukraine, in any peace deal, that is a major concession by Russia. We'll see if Trump and the EU can put stress on Putin's economy so he takes the peace deal, otherwise the war continues indefinitely.

We seem to be holding your hero Putin in check. That bothers you a lot.

 

[kyzr]

And still, you can't make even new tanks

Plain lie.

Really? And we have superior weapons, too.

A few.

Nothing unusual.

Just WW3 if Russia attacks a NATO country.

Capturing a city with 3 mln of population by lesser than 200K force in 3 days? Are you kidding? Previous time liberation of Ukraine took 3 years and more than 7 mln killed in action soldiers (say nothing about civilians).

Wasting lives for very little gain is really stupid.

He is not a leader in any meaningful sense. As Colonel Sanders is not CEO of KFC.

Putin is a vicious dictator. You can't sugar coat it.

Yep. And nobody asked them.
Don't tell for all Ukrainians. And most of them just don't have a choice. Borders are closed, you know, and NATO pay for cannon fodder. So, some of them just sell their compatriots as meat (pork, to be specific). Open boards. Defund them. And watch, how many of them will choose their mind. Russia can't allow NATO in Ukraine, whatever and whoever (especially Ukronazies) think about it.

I think NATO membership is off the table. But, Ukraine can join the EU to cut all economic ties with Russia.
I'm not sure what type of "security guarantee" Ukraine will get? Putin doesn't like US or EU "peacekeepers" in Ukraine, but that may have to happen to keep Russia from invading again. But no offensive weapons, like missiles.

May be. But it will mean a death of European industry.

The EU can confiscate Russia's $300b if no peace deal. Russia can't do anything.

May be. But it will be death of European financial sector.

Russia has no economic power. It sells oil.

No. Russia allied with China and India is unbeatable economically. But, quite likely, Russia will eliminate at least French nuclear forces.

BRICs is being punished by Trump's tariffs. China needs US markets more than Putin's stupid war.

 

[Zavulon]

The Russian people are used to having very little.

How's that GDP per capita in your shithole?

There is a big difference between "having property" and "having financial activity". If you give your boyfriend a million dollar worth blowjob every night and he gives you the same, you may have 365 million dollar per capita GDP, but also you might be two homeless f@ggots. True wealth (in the meaning of property) is, first of all, land with its natural resources, and weapons to defend it.

 

[Zavulon]

Putin's nuclear threats are 100% offensive.

I will invade my neighbor, and those who dare oppose me will be met with nukes.

We "invaded" our neighbour because you hired him, to kill us. It is pure self-defence.

It's precisely what Putin has done, else his incompetent and outdated military would have been wiped out by now. He knows it, the whole world knows it.

His offensive nuclear threats are the only reason we are even talking about this today.

And you are talking about it because those threats are believable, and they are believable because nuclear war is both survivable and winnable.

 

[Mac1958]

If Ukraine makes peace under these conditions it will cease to exist within a matter of months or a year or two or three.

I think there are many here who'd be fine with that, sadly.