Latest Ukrainian Peace Plan From the US...Ukraine Surrenders, NATO Cannot Expand; Russia Gives Up Nothing.

[Zavulon]

Natural resources? Awesome!
What's the GDP per capita?

As I said, GDP per capita is not about wealth. It is about financial activity. Nations are not fighting by vitual ones and zeroes. They are fighting with real tanks, shells and robots. Reality is important.

 

[kyzr]

It is not scratch-new tank. It is modernization program. And no, it was cancelled in 2023.

Your link is from 2023, under sleepy Joe Biden's presidency, back when the US was trying to develop EV tanks.
Those morons are long gone.

What the US Army’s green light for the M1E3 Abrams fielding tells us about the future of Main Battle Tanks

What the US Army’s green light for the M1E3 Abrams fielding tells us about the future of Main Battle Tanks

www.armyrecognition.com

"On May 1, 2025, the U.S. Army formally confirmed its intention to field the M1E3 Abrams tank, further confirming the acceleration of the modernization of the Abrams platform. The new tank is expected to enter service within 24 to 30 months, well ahead of the originally projected 2030 timeline. This acceleration reflects a strategic shift in the Army’s acquisition approach, aiming to overcome bureaucratic delays and outdated risk management practices in order to rapidly equip armored formations with a lighter, more survivable, and technologically advanced main battle tank capable of addressing evolving threats."

Why not? We can. (win a nuclear war)

So losing how many Russian cities do you consider a win?

European productive economy is collapsing. And without modern weapons (especially nukes and drones) any amount of European meat will be simply harmless

You forget that NATO includes the everyone in NATO.

Ukrainians are Russians, too. It is sad, but it's not a big deal. Our Army (and our future Army) are getting stronger.

I hope you don't have any relatives that died in Ukraine for nothing.
Soldiers dying does not make an army stronger. Just like Russian ships sinking doesn't make your navy stronger.
Or, planes being destroyed makes your air force stronger.

Wow. And Colonel Sanders, if I recall correctly, is a face of KFC since 1935. You should see the difference between managing and advertising. Oversimplifying, the real power in America belongs to billionaires, and most of those families keep that money and power for many generations. Real power in Russia belongs mostly to backroom boys of the Deeper State (like, you know, Kitez-grad), and we have a silent revolution every three-five years. Presidents, both in Russia and America are mostly hired clown.

Russia's oligarchs may decide on a new puppet after Putin retires, but no one is going to make Putin leave until he chooses to

They can't. (isolate Russia)

Maybe not, but they can stop buying Russian oil and gas.

Nobody is dying for nothing. At least it is better than from vodka and flu.

We hope for a peace deal so no one needs to die.

Wow. The Russians are already there for many centuries. If there is no denazification of Kiev's regime, there will be rebellions with, or without permission of Russian Federation government. Actually, some of those rebellions will be inspired by SBU (Ukrainian daughter of KGB).
German soldiers came to Odessa, local Russian rebels start to kill them (with, or without Moscow's permission). Germans start to slaughter local population. Russia bomb German garrisons by cruise missiles and supplies local rebels. Germany declare war to Russia. Russia nuke German military installations in Germany. And here there will be a moment of truth for the USA. Attack Russia by themselves (and suffering unacceptable damage even in the most optimistic scenarios and total annihilation in the pessimistic ones) or refuse to attack and try alleviate (and it will mean the end of NATO).

There are no rebellions in Ukraine for reunification with Russia, only your Russian propaganda. Ukraine is fighting for its independence from Russia. Any foreign peacekeepers in Ukraine will be welcomed as heroes. Any SBU troublemakers will be dealt with by local Ukrainians. There will be no justification for any future Russian invasions.

No. If there is the choice between paying $2.1 trillion dollar (seven dollars for every stolen one) and suffering total annihilation - you'll choose to return money.

Stop making shit up. Sign the ******* peace deal.

Chinamen need military experience. And some of them are already there.

We'll see how fast they learn if they try to invade Taiwan. I don't think Xi is that stupid. He already said China will own Taiwan by 2049, comfortably long after he retires.

 

[Hafar1014]

Yes, you can. But international trade isn't charity. You hart them, it hurts you, too. And without Russia on their side, India and China will be much more vulnerable both militarily and economically. They know it, that's why they are not going to leave Russia. And even if they try, Russia will gone nuclear and finish the war much faster and in much more violent way.

India makes nothing we need

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

As I said, GDP per capita is not about wealth. It is about financial activity. Nations are not fighting by vitual ones and zeroes. They are fighting with real tanks, shells and robots. Reality is important.

As I said, GDP per capita is not about wealth.

Not in Russia it isn't.
Not when so much of your GDP is wasted on weapons to kill Ukrainians.

Reality is important.

Reality shows Russians are poor because Putin is fighting and wasting.

 

[Zavulon]

Your link is from 2023, under sleepy Joe Biden's presidency, back when the US was trying to develop EV tanks.
Those morons are long gone.

What the US Army’s green light for the M1E3 Abrams fielding tells us about the future of Main Battle Tanks

What the US Army’s green light for the M1E3 Abrams fielding tells us about the future of Main Battle Tanks

www.armyrecognition.com

"On May 1, 2025, the U.S. Army formally confirmed its intention to field the M1E3 Abrams tank, further confirming the acceleration of the modernization of the Abrams platform. The new tank is expected to enter service within 24 to 30 months, well ahead of the originally projected 2030 timeline.

It means that they may demonstrate the "pre-prototype" this december. It means that real building of real tanks didn't start yet. And anyway, it will be "modernization", not "scratch-new" tanks

This acceleration reflects a strategic shift in the Army’s acquisition approach, aiming to overcome bureaucratic delays and outdated risk management practices in order to rapidly equip armored formations with a lighter, more survivable, and technologically advanced main battle tank capable of addressing evolving threats."

Bla-bla-bla. Right now you have no tank production at all. Say nothing about real mass-production of optic-fiber UAVs for $500 each.

So losing how many Russian cities do you consider a win?

Previous time Germans had destroyed 1710 cities and towns and 70000 villages. But we had won. And it is not about losing and taking cities. It is about elimination of the threats. If we lost more than half of our cities, but our enemies are totally eliminated we had won.

You forget that NATO includes the everyone in NATO.

Yep. And they will have a choice - to gather money all together, or die all together.

I hope you don't have any relatives that died in Ukraine for nothing.

Actually, one of my Ukrainian cousins was drafted and killed. But every man is responsible for his own life. My another cousin emigrated in Israel in 2015 when he realised what is going to happen.

Soldiers dying does not make an army stronger.

Of course they make. Weak and stupid are getting killed or arrested and the fittest survive and study.

Just like Russian ships sinking doesn't make your navy stronger.

It makes Navy smarter.

Or, planes being destroyed makes your air force stronger.

Experience is invaluable.

Russia's oligarchs may decide on a new puppet after Putin retires, but no one is going to make Putin leave until he chooses to

There are no oligarchs in Russia. At least not in the Western understanding of the term. Yesterday you was a richest man in Russia, but another day you hanged on your own scarf in your London house. They don't rule. Backroom boys do. When they choose that there is time for rebranding - they remove Presidents (as it was with Eltzin).

Maybe not, but they can stop buying Russian oil and gas.

No problem. Without Russian oil their economy will collapse and they won't be able make more tanks. And with more oil we'll produce more tanks.

We hope for a peace deal so no one needs to die.

No need for hope. You either accept our quite generous peace proposals or don't accept.

There are no rebellions in Ukraine for reunification with Russia, only your Russian propaganda.

There were rebellions. Some of them were supressed by SBU, but rebellions in Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk were successful. But if it is necessary for Ukrainian SBU and Russian FSB (and both of them will be interested in it) there will be rebellions.

Ukraine is fighting for its independence from Russia. Any foreign peacekeepers in Ukraine will be welcomed as heroes.

Didn't they say you same things about Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan?

Any SBU troublemakers will be dealt with by local Ukrainians. There will be no justification for any future Russian invasions.

There will be justification. One way, or another. Anyway, Russia won't allow them.

Stop making shit up. Sign the ******* peace deal.

Say "please". Just kidding. There will be no peace, for Europe doesn't want peace. First of all, you should learn that Russians are human beings and have all human rights. Without that understanding all negotiations are useless.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'm sure that if America were invaded by a foreign power, and that foreign power took over a couple of American states -- say, Florida and Georgia -- we would want to just let them have those two states to "stop the killing".

Right?

Between the two warring countries, I think I'll just support what Ukraine decides is best for its people.

Mexicans in southern Texas start an armed revolt, prompted by the Mexican President, and say southern Texas is going to be part of Mexico, now. Then Mexico invades.

So we all say, "Oh, that's fine, a lot of people there speak Mexican."

Thats MAGA's stance, on Ukraine.

 

[Zavulon]

Mexicans in southern Texas start an armed revolt, prompted by the Mexican President, and say southern Texas is going to be part of Mexico, now. Then Mexico invades.

So we all say, "Oh, that's fine, a lot of people there speak Mexican."

Thats MAGA's stance, on Ukraine.

English-speaking Americans in Northern Texas started an armed revolt and American Army invaded Mexico and annexed 2/3 of their territory. After few years of war Mexico accepted reality, and Texas (and other territories) became a part of the USA. Other countries recognised it in some more years.
Albanians in Kosovo (which is a part of Serbia) started an armed revolt, Serbs tryed to supress it, but were bombed by NATO and more or less accepted reality.

That's what happened quite often.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

English-speaking Americans in Northern Texas started an armed revolt and American Army invaded Mexico and annexed 2/3 of their territory. After few years of war Mexico accepted reality, and Texas (and other territories) became a part of the USA. Other countries recognised it in some more years.
Albanians in Kosovo (which is a part of Serbia) started an armed revolt, Serbs tryed to supress it, but were bombed by NATO and more or less accepted reality.

That's what happened quite often.

If I want to know what Putin thinks, I will watch Russian state tv, comrade.

 

[Zavulon]

If I want to know what Putin thinks, I will watch Russian state tv, comrade.

I want to know what Americans think, that's why I'm here. So, what do you think about American rebellion in thirteen colonies, about American-Mexican war and annexation of Mexican territory, about Albanian separatism in Serbia, about Kurdish separatism in Iraq, Turkey, Syria and Iran, about Abkhazian separatism in Georgia and so on... Do you have some firm and straight rules or you just follow a current thing?

 

[kyzr]

It means that they may demonstrate the "pre-prototype" this December. It means that real building of real tanks didn't start yet. And anyway, it will be "modernization", not "scratch-new" tanks

We have the best tank in the world now, we don't need a "from scratch" new tank. I'm not sure how tanks survive on the battlefield with the new anti-tank weapons, like our "Hellfire" and "Javelin" missiles. Future battles may be fought by autonomous weapons systems. There won't be anymore WW2 Kursk tank battles.

Bla-bla-bla. Right now you have no tank production at all. Say nothing about real mass-production of optic-fiber UAVs for $500 each.

As I said above, we have more than enough tanks now.

Previous time Germans had destroyed 1710 cities and towns and 70000 villages. But we had won. And it is not about losing and taking cities. It is about elimination of the threats. If we lost more than half of our cities, but our enemies are totally eliminated we had won.

WW3 will not be like WW2. Best to avoid it.

Yep. And they will have a choice - to gather money all together, or die all together.

Easy choice, we all die together. Better dead than red.

Actually, one of my Ukrainian cousins was drafted and killed. But every man is responsible for his own life. My other cousin emigrated in Israel in 2015 when he realised what is going to happen.

Smart guy. Putin knows how many young men are running away from the draft.

Of course they make. Weak and stupid are getting killed or arrested and the fittest survive and study. It makes Navy smarter.
Experience is invaluable.

You related to "Baghdad Bob"?

There are no oligarchs in Russia. At least not in the Western understanding of the term. Yesterday you was a richest man in Russia, but another day you hanged on your own scarf in your London house. They don't rule. Backroom boys do. When they choose that there is time for rebranding - they remove Presidents (as it was with Eltzin).

You have google there?

I thought that the generals and KGB heads were the "backroom boys"? Not stupid party bosses.

No problem. Without Russian oil their economy will collapse and they won't be able make more tanks. And with more oil we'll produce more tanks.

That was last year.

No need for hope. You either accept our quite generous peace proposals or don't accept.

We'll soon see how generous Putin is

There were rebellions. Some of them were suppressed by SBU, but rebellions in Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk were successful. But if it is necessary for Ukrainian SBU and Russian FSB (and both of them will be interested in it) there will be rebellions.

They all stopped. They will not be allowed to start.

Didn't they say you same things about Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan?

No. There were no international peacekeepers in VN, Iraq, nor AFG. I expect Turks, Romanians, French, Brits, and possibly US to protect our miners. Soldiers Putin does not view as threatening, like Germans.

There will be justification. One way, or another. Anyway, Russia won't allow them.

Ukraine will be protected by NATO from any future Russian invasion. That is the "security guarantee".

Say "please". Just kidding. There will be no peace, for Europe doesn't want peace. First of all, you should learn that Russians are human beings and have all human rights. Without that understanding all negotiations are useless.

So are Ukrainians. You have all the rights you want in Russia, but not in Ukraine.

 

[Zavulon]

We have the best tank in the world now, we don't need a "from scratch" new tank. I'm not sure how tanks survive on the battlefield with the new anti-tank weapons, like our "Hellfire" and "Javelin" missiles. Future battles may be fought by autonomous weapons systems. There won't be anymore WW2 Kursk tank battles.

There are fully autonomous Armata tanks, and there is no way to make Abrams tank (however modernized) fully autonomous.

As I said above, we have more than enough tanks now.

Is it why you still didn't invade Mexico? Because your army is that strong?

WW3 will not be like WW2. Best to avoid it.

Sometimes (like now) we can't avoid it.

Easy choice, we all die together. Better dead than red.

No problem. You'll die, we'll survive. That's what we often call "victory".

Smart guy. Putin knows how many young men are running away from the draft.

He ran away from Poroshenko. He was (and still is) a citizen of Ukraine.

You related to "Baghdad Bob"?

No. Do you?

You have google there?
View attachment 1189257
I thought that the generals and KGB heads were the "backroom boys"? Not stupid party bosses.

No. Generals and FSB heads are rigid, senile alcoholics. They can't fight a modern war. Sometimes they need assistance of their grandchildren even to install an application on their smartphones. I mean much more younger and smarter guys.

That was last year.

And their economy is collapsing. Biden's sanctions more affected their industry than Truman's carpet bombings.

We'll soon see how generous Putin is

I doubt it.

They all stopped. They will not be allowed to start.

You can't prevent rebellion when both potential rebels and ruling regime vitally need it.

No. There were no international peacekeepers in VN, Iraq, nor AFG. I expect Turks, Romanians, French, Brits, and possibly US to protect our miners. Soldiers Putin does not view as threatening, like Germans.

Ever heard about massacre commited by Romanians in Odessa?
No. There will be no NATO soldiers at all. Highly likely, there will be no foreign soldiers at all.

Ukraine will be protected by NATO from any future Russian invasion. That is the "security guarantee".

No. That's what we call "guaranteed war". There are only three things that can potentially protect Ukraine: denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status.

So are Ukrainians. You have all the rights you want in Russia, but not in Ukraine.

No. We have our rights everywhere.

 

[Ringo]

 

[kyzr]

There are fully autonomous Armata tanks, and there is no way to make Abrams tank (however modernized) fully autonomous.

True. The WW3 battlefields will be unlike anything before.

Is it why you still didn't invade Mexico? Because your army is that strong?

we're not going to invade Mexico, we'll just destroy the drug factories.

No problem. You'll die, we'll survive. That's what we often call "victory".

Like they said in the Wild West, "slap leather" (see who wins a nuclear showdown)

No. Generals and FSB heads are rigid, senile alcoholics. They can't fight a modern war. Sometimes they need assistance of their grandchildren even to install an application on their smartphones. I mean much more younger and smarter guys.

In US movies Russian leaders are always drunks, except Gorbachev.

I doubt it. (Putin will be generous)

You are right, Putin won't give any concessions.

You can't prevent rebellion when both potential rebels and ruling regime vitally need it.

Rebellions aren't happening.

Ever heard about massacre committed by Romanians in Odessa?
No. There will be no NATO soldiers at all. Highly likely, there will be no foreign soldiers at all.

There will be peacekeepers in Ukraine to keep Russia out.

No. That's what we call "guaranteed war". There are only three things that can potentially protect Ukraine: denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status.

After a peace deal Russia will not be allowed to invade Ukraine.

No. We have our rights everywhere.

Russian propagandists are writing checks that their military can't cash.

 

[Deadstick]

That is because NAZO needs an enemy to exist,once there is no enemy it becomes a very expensive social club looking for an enemy, they chose Russia.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That is because NAZO needs an enemy to exist,once there is no enemy it becomes a very expensive social club looking for an enemy, they chose Russia.

Poor Russia never did nuthin' to nobody.
Everyone always blames poor peaceful Russia.

 

[sartre play]

IF you buy that! funny honest elections in Russia!

 

[Deadstick]

Poor Russia never did nuthin' to nobody.
Everyone always blames poor peaceful Russia.

Poor Nato never did nothing to nobody, everyone blames poor peaceful Nato

 

[Deadstick]

IF you buy that! funny honest elections in Russia!

Your guy didn't win the election in Russia and thats your problem and your guy didn't win in Venezuela that is why you have threatened Maduro. you really need to grow up and accept democracy.

 

[Zavulon]

True. The WW3 battlefields will be unlike anything before.

And you are not ready.

we're not going to invade Mexico, we'll just destroy the drug factories.

You can't establish acceptable order on a territory without having jackboots on the ground.

Like they said in the Wild West, "slap leather" (see who wins a nuclear showdown)

One who shoot first is the one who laugh the last. And you, guys, are definitely going to play Texas Red.

In US movies Russian leaders are always drunks, except Gorbachev.

Yep. Exonazism Type II - "They are worsen version of we". It's not really true, but the fact is obviouse. Those guys don't understand what kind of thing is the modern war.

You are right, Putin won't give any concessions.

Rebellions aren't happening.

There are rebels and much more potential rebels (more than a half of the population). But they are not really active basically because they wait for being liberated by Russian Federation and Kievan regime is not interested in pushing them too hard (and get a real rebellion on hands) at moment. But if the ceasefire means for Kievan regime "end of cash flow" and rebellion means "resuming cash flow" Kiev will push them enough (say nothing about SBU-controlled rebels). Same way, if, for Russia ceasefire means "invasion of NATO forces in Ukraine" and rebellion means "no invasion of NATO forces in Ukraine", Moscow (with or without Putin) will pull all strings to start the rebellion.

And, acting together (like pushing and pulling) Moscow and Kiev will start pretty good rebellion.

There will be peacekeepers in Ukraine to keep Russia out.

And exactly for this very reason there will be no any peacekeepers.

After a peace deal Russia will not be allowed to invade Ukraine.

That is exactly why there will be no peace deal.

Russian propagandists are writing checks that their military can't cash.

Really? We'll see.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Poor Nato never did nothing to nobody, everyone blames poor peaceful Nato

Did you cry yourself to sleep when the USSR collapsed?