"Kilmar Abrego Garcia is alive and secure but is under the sovereign, domestic authority of El Salvador"

[Seymour Flops]

Was he in the the US with a legal temporary status?

No, he only had an order protecting him from deportation to El Salvador. The Trump admin has acknowledged their administrative error in sending him there, but he was in no way in the country legally.

Has he been convicted of any gang activities here or in El Salvador?

What was the judicial process? (Sorry, tattoos don’t count).

No, and none.

Requiring judicial process for removals under the Enemy Aliens Act is new since the very recent USSC ruling.

As for left field, it is the only response I can think of when someone thinks it’s a great idea to send anyone to a prison known for torture and horrible conditions absent any kind of legal process to determine that is indeed where he needs to be sent to.

Okay, but it makes no more sense than saying that you should have been kept in the DC Jail for as long as some of the J6 Rioters were kept without bail until their trials.

 

[Coyote]

The president and his admin have not been ordered to force or coerce El Salvador.

Nothing to do with power. They can facilitate his return, if El Salvador returns him. El Salvador said no. He's their citizen. What part of no don't you understand?

But the president has not been ordered by the Supreme Court to ask him that.

For very good reason. The courts have been smart enough to stay in their lane when it comes to foreign policy.

Typically, our country does not repatriate citizens to where they will be tortured or killed. They find another place. Apparently you are not ok with that and you are perfectly fine with sending someone, in absence of a charges, trial or conviction to be imprisoned and tortured. You do not want nor do you think Trump should fix what his administration clearly stated was an error.

That says a lot about you.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

No they wouldn't. Why would we want terrorist gang members to be sent to the United States?

Materials?

They are human being for Pete's sake!

But not Americans citizens, so why would an America First president put their comfort ahead of the safety of Americans?

You're drifting off-topic.

What will the judge do now, is the question?

Order the president to declare war on El Salvador.

 

[TimFitz]

This was very predictible, and is an example of why intelligent and rational people do not need such examples.

Of course a Federal district judge cannot order El Salvador to send one of its own citizens to the U.S.

No, it’s the Trump Administration that has the responsibility.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Well he isn't white, so what do they care?

 

[Coyote]

No, he only had an order protecting him from deportation to El Salvador. The Trump admin has acknowledged their administrative error in sending him there, but he was in no way in the country legally.

That was a temporary legal status until they determined where to send him.

Requiring judicial process for removals under the Enemy Aliens Act is new since the very recent USSC ruling.

Using the Act in this manner is new. The administration new this was being adjudicated and could have waited.

Okay, but it makes no more sense than saying that you should have been kept in the DC Jail for as long as some of the J6 Rioters were kept without bail until their trials.

What a bunch of tripe. Very few were kept in jail without bail and were done so for good reason. But hey, all is erased because rightist criminals are patriots and this dude is just an illegal immigrant so who cares if he gets sent to a notorious prison where he will be tortured beccause he committed the horrific crime of….


What exactly?

 

[Seymour Flops]

No, it’s the Trump Administration that has the responsibility.

The person who has responsibility must be the decision maker. If President Trump were to take whatever steps needed to bring Abrego Garcia to the United States, and then he commits a heinous rape-murder, as so many other illegal alien suspected gand members have done, would you blame Trump or the court?

And would it matter in the slightest to the victim and her family?

That was a temporary legal status until they determined where to send him.

Not true, but the media is making is sound that way.

Using the Act in this manner is new. The administration new this was being adjudicated and could have waited.

The Administration felt compelled to act due to the emergency created by the previous administration's failure to enforce immigration law.

What a bunch of tripe. Very few were kept in jail without bail and were done so for good reason. But hey, all is erased because rightist criminals are patriots and this dude is just an illegal immigrant so who cares if he gets sent to a notorious prison where he will be tortured beccause he committed the horrific crime of….


What exactly?

According to the judge in his case:


U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, however, alleged that he was a certified gang member based on information that came from a confidential informant used by county police, records state.

According to Abrego Garcia’s attorneys in his current case, the criminal informant had alleged that Abrego Garcia belonged to an MS-13 chapter in New York, where he has never lived.

The information was enough for an immigration judge in 2019 to keep Abrego Garcia in jail as his immigration case continued, court records state. The judge said the informant was proven and reliable and had verified his gang membership and rank.

What to Know About Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Deportee SCOTUS Ordered Trump Admin to Return

The Supreme Court ordered the Trump Administration to facilitate Abrego Garcia’s return to the U.S. after the White House mistakenly deported him to a notorious El Salvador prison.

time.com

 

[Coyote]

The person who has responsibility must be the decision maker. If President Trump were to take whatever steps needed to bring Abrego Garcia to the United States, and then he commits a heinous rape-murder, as so many other illegal alien suspected gand members have done, would you blame Trump or the court?

And would it matter in the slightest to the victim and her family?

So we are sending a man who has yet to be convicted of anything either here or in El Salvador, to a notorious prison, in defiance of a judges order, based on a hypothetical victim?

And this non-existent victim is more important than an actual person who was sent to a notorious prison, convicted of nothing and apparently lived in the US for how long without committing a violent crime much less this hypothetical violent rape?

Not true, but the media is making is sound that way.

The Administration felt compelled to act due to the emergency created by the previous administration's failure to enforce immigration law.

Oh no. Stop right there. Don’t start shifting the blame onto others. This is squarely on THIS administration. THEY are the ones in charge now.

What emergency in this specific case required the administration to carelessly rush him to a foreign prison known for torture and horrific conditions? I’m not saying he shouldn’t be deported mind you, but there is no excuse doing it this way and even less for refusing to rectify the mistake.

He must have assaulted some one…wait, no, didn’t happen.

He raped a bunch of women! Uh…no, that doesn’t work either.

He trafficked a school bus full of kids and used the money finance his drug empire. No…nix that.

Did he ruthlessly litter?

Kristi Noem needed another cosplay photo op?

So what was the rush? It’s not like there aren’t real criminals out there that pose a significant threat.

 

[Seymour Flops]

So we are sending a man who has yet to be convicted of anything either here or in El Salvador, to a notorious prison, in defiance of a judges order, based on a hypothetical victim?

The victims have been very real.

We sent almost two hundred suspected members of gangs to El Salvador, not just one. All of them in the country unlawfully, which more than justifies removing them. No country would take them as free men, unless they happened to have president who was as unconcerned about the safety of their citizens as the Biden Administration was about the safety of Americans.

Trump did not create this emergency, he has stepped up to deal with the emergency with which he was left.

And this non-existent victim is more important than an actual person who was sent to a notorious prison, convicted of nothing and apparently lived in the US for how long without committing a violent crime much less this hypothetical violent rape?

Yes, all of the potential victims of gang violence are more important than one man verified by a judge to be a gang member. Far more. Not even close.

Oh no. Stop right there. Don’t start shifting the blame onto others. This is squarely on THIS administration. THEY are the ones in charge now.

Yes, and as the ones in charge, they are dealing with it. Far better than his predecessor who ignored the problem. If they - the ones in charge now - failed to act to stop the violence, they would be just as bad as the previous administration.

What emergency in this specific case required the administration to carelessly rush him to a foreign prison known for torture and horrific conditions? I’m not saying he shouldn’t be deported mind you, but there is no excuse doing it this way and even less for refusing to rectify the mistake.

Why should he be deported, if he is so innocent?

It is not just a one-person emergency. The crime wave caused by the previous administration's immigration policy is nationwide. Biden indriminently allowed these illegal aliens in and gave many of them quasi-legal status. Now Trump has to deal with it.

He's being remarkably deliberate in doing so, and mistakes have been rare.

He raped a bunch of women! Uh…no, that doesn’t work either.

He trafficked a school bus full of kids and used the money finance his drug empire. No…nix that.

Did he ruthlessly litter?

Kristi Noem needed another cosplay photo op?

So what was the rush? It’s not like there aren’t real criminals out there that pose a significant threat.

He was - and is - a verified member of a criminal organization with a history of extreme violence, including, but not limited to child trafficking, drug smuggling, gang-motivated murders, not to mention the lawlessness with which individual members have assaulted and murdered innocent people.

You're exactly right, he should have been deported. No country would take him except under lock and key. A mistake was made in exactly which country he was sent to. But it led to a happy result. The people who live near him, and any correctional officers who might have to deal with him if he were incarcerated here are safer.

If you have no sympathy for the victims of illegal alien crime - as witness you calling them "hypothetical" and "non-existent" - why should I have sympathy for an illegal alien gang member?

 

[1srelluc]

A whole country is telling the district court "judge" to pound sand.....How funny is that shit?

To listen to the dems whine I guess they expect Trump to send in Seal Team Six after him.....What a bunch of dopes.

 

[Coyote]

The victims have been very real.

Who were his victims?

Trump did not create this emergency, he has stepped up to deal with the emergency with which he was left.

He created this particular situation. Or are you saying he is incompetent and incapable of fixing his mistakes?

Yes, all of the potential victims of gang violence are more important than one man verified by a judge to be a gang member. Far more. Not even close.

So all those non-exhistent hypotheticals that you’ve dreamed up are enough to convict a man, by pass due process and send him to El Salvador to be tortured?

I’m glad we are straight on this.

Yes, and as the ones in charge, they are dealing with it. Far better than his predecessor who ignored the problem. If they - the ones in charge now - failed to act to stop the violence, they would be just as bad as the previous administration.

His predecessor is irrelevant. Stop making excuses for the guy who is supposed to be in charge now and deported a man, convicted of nothing, to be tortured.

Why should he be deported, if he is so innocent?

Because he is in this country illegally (usually a misdemeanor). And, usually in those cases we do not deport them to a place where they run the risk of being tortured or killed and certainly not to a prison notorious for horrible conditions and torture.

He was - and is - a verified member of a criminal organization with a history of extreme violence, including, but not limited to child trafficking, drug smuggling, gang-motivated murders, not to mention the lawlessness with which individual members have assaulted and murdered innocent people.

Woah you have added a whole lot more now.

Who has he raped, trafficked, murdered or smuggled?

You're exactly right, he should have been deported. No country would take him except under lock and key.

What countries have been asked and which ones refused?

A mistake was made in exactly which country he was sent to. But it led to a happy result. The people who live near him, and any correctional officers who might have to deal with him if he were incarcerated here are safer.

Well, I go back to what I said. I hope that some day you to can enjoy that hospitality because of a mistake and that some one, like you, will be happy.

If you have no sympathy for the victims of illegal alien crime - as witness you calling them "hypothetical" and "non-existent" - why should I have sympathy for an illegal alien gang member?

What crime has he committed who’s victims I need to have sympathy for?

 

[TemplarKormac]

What's the judge gonna do now? Order in the United States Marines? LOL

I'm sure we have an extradition treaty with them. Go through those channels. Easy peasy.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Who were his victims?

None that we know of.

He created this particular situation. Or are you saying he is incompetent and incapable of fixing his mistakes?

He did. The onus is on him to correct his mistake. The jury's still out on his competence. He's brash and impulsive. Those two things do compromise competence.

Woah you have added a whole lot more now.

Who has he raped, trafficked, murdered or smuggled?

Nobody that we know of. If he did, it was because he was coerced by TdA at pain of losing his family.

What countries have been asked and which ones refused?

Unknown.

Well, I go back to what I said. I hope that some day you to can enjoy that hospitality because of a mistake and that some one, like you, will be happy.

Aw, such spitefulness. It's okay to be compassionate. It's okay to admit a mistake. It takes balls to correct it.

What crime has he committed who’s victims I need to have sympathy for?

He hasn't, specifically. But Seymour is referring to TdA/MS-13 killings of Kate Steinle, Laken Rilen, Jocelyn Nungaray, etc.

 

[MarathonMike]

If he's under the soverign, domestic authority of the counry of El Salvador.

Why are US taxpayers paying El Salvador to house him?

If the US prisoners that the US transferred to El Salvador are under their soverign and domestic authority, cancel the $6,000,000 we're paying to house them.

WW

Donald Trump always honors a deal. $6 Million for one year. Then Maduro can take them back home.

 

[Billiejeens]

If he's under the soverign, domestic authority of the counry of El Salvador.

Why are US taxpayers paying El Salvador to house him?

If the US prisoners that the US transferred to El Salvador are under their soverign and domestic authority, cancel the $6,000,000 we're paying to house them.

WW

You are very confused.

 

[fncceo]

Why isn't the Admin trying to bring him back?

You want us to abduct foreign nationals to the USA?

That sounds a lot like the slave trade.

 

[WorldWatcher]

What were the consequences for Biden when he defied the written order of the USSC in the case of student loans?

He didn’t defy the SCOTUS.

They told him you can use the HEROs Act to reduce student loans and he stopped.

The court DID NOT tell him that he could other Congress approved methods such as the PSLF program that Congress approved.

Go check the decision.

WW

 

[Seymour Flops]

Who were his victims?

The victims of gang violence are very real. I'm not willing to wait until we have a verified victim of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, before I support deporting gang members.

He created this particular situation. Or are you saying he is incompetent and incapable of fixing his mistakes?

First of all there is not a fix for every mistake. Some time you just admit your error and move on.

In this case, I'm saying it is not in need of fixing. He's a verified member of MS13, a vicious gang of murderers, rapists, child trafickers, and drug dealers. He was in the country illegally. He's now returned to his home country, in custody. He's El Salvador's problem now, even if we took back every penny we have paid them or will pay them.

El Salvador is dealing with him as well as a person like that can be dealt with. Are you aware of the large drop in crime in El Salvador since they cracked down on gangs? Even the documentarist who made the tearjerker about conditions in CET, led by saying that neighborhoods in El Salvador are safe for the citizens now.

So all those non-exhistent hypotheticals that you’ve dreamed up are enough to convict a man, by pass due process and send him to El Salvador to be tortured?

I’m glad we are straight on this.

He was not convicted of anything that I know of. But he was verified in court to be a member of MS13, and to be in the country illegally. That's enough for a free ride back to his homeland.

His predecessor is irrelevant. Stop making excuses for the guy who is supposed to be in charge now and deported a man, convicted of nothing, to be tortured.

If not for his predecessor, Trump would not have this emergency to deal with.

Because he is in this country illegally (usually a misdemeanor). And, usually in those cases we do not deport them to a place where they run the risk of being tortured or killed and certainly not to a prison notorious for horrible conditions and torture.

I've admitted ad nauseum that he was sent to El Salvador by mistake.

Woah you have added a whole lot more now.

Who has he raped, trafficked, murdered or smuggled?

The gang he is a member of has, so I don't need to know details about his particular crimes. I'm not advocating that he be put in prison in the U.S.

Is your theory that he was some sort of auxiliary member, maybe keeping the books, or running human resources for the gang?

Even if he was, he was guilty of supporting them in their crimes.

What countries have been asked and which ones refused?

I doubt if anyone would have made such a foolish request. Well, I guess to the United States under Biden, they might have - and been granted.

Well, I go back to what I said. I hope that some day you to can enjoy that hospitality because of a mistake and that some one, like you, will be happy.

Again, as silly as my wishing you to be in the DC jail, since we disagree about whether all of the Jan 6 rioters should have been there. I don't wish that. I can have an opinion about who should be president without wishing harm to those who support others.

What crime has he committed who’s victims I need to have sympathy for?

As pointed out above:

He hasn't, specifically. But Seymour is referring to TdA/MS-13 killings of Kate Steinle, Laken Rilen, Jocelyn Nungaray, etc.

Have you expressed sympathy for them on this forum?

 

[Seymour Flops]

He didn’t defy the SCOTUS.

They told him you can use the HEROs Act to reduce student loans and he stopped.

The court DID NOT tell him that he could other Congress approved methods such as the PSLF program that Congress approved.

Go check the decision.

WW

Yet he specified that "they tried to stop me." He found a workaround, something that all Americans are good at, regardless of political affiliation.

Trump will find ways to work around what the courts tell him to do also.

But, let me guess: When Trump does it, it will rilly, rilly, be wrong.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Have you expressed sympathy for them on this forum?

No. Why would I? They're all savages.

I just oppose reckless implementation of the law without proper procedures in place.