Kennedy Assassination Question

[Bfgrn]

If Oswald did it alone (the physical, ballistic and forensic evidence disproves), the government decided 3 days after the assassination of President Kennedy and one day after the killing of Oswald.


Memo from the Attorney General's office to the White House:

Memo from Nicholas deB. Katzenbach, Deputy Attorney General

November 25, 1963

MEMORANDUM FOR MR. MOYERS

It is important that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy's Assassination be made public in a way which will satisfy people in the United States and abroad that all the facts have been told and that a statement to this effect be made now.

1. The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial.

2. Speculation about Oswald's motivation ought to be cut off, and we should have some basis for rebutting thought that this was a Communist conspiracy or (as the Iron Curtain press is saying) a right-wing conspiracy to blame it on the Communists. Unfortunately the facts on Oswald seem about too pat-- too obvious (Marxist, Cuba, Russian wife, etc.). The Dallas police have put out statements on the Communist conspiracy theory, and it was they who were in charge when he was shot and thus silenced.

3. The matter has been handled thus far with neither dignity nor conviction. Facts have been mixed with rumour and speculation. We can scarcely let the world see us totally in the image of the Dallas police when our President is murdered.

I think this objective may be satisfied by making public as soon as possible a complete and thorough FBI report on Oswald and the assassination. This may run into the difficulty of pointing to in- consistencies between this report and statements by Dallas police officials. But the reputation of the Bureau is such that it may do the whole job. The only other step would be the appointment of a Presidential Commission of unimpeachable personnel to review and examine the evidence and announce its conclusions. This has both advantages and disadvantages. It think it can await publication of the FBI report and public reaction to it here and abroad.

I think, however, that a statement that all the facts will be made public property in an orderly and responsible way should be made now. We need something to head off public speculation or Congressional hearings of the wrong sort.

Nicholas deB. Katzenbach

Deputy Attorney General

 

[rightwinger]

Oswald read in the paper that JFKs motorcade would be driving by his place of work. So he took his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out

It's not hard

 

[legaleagle_45]

Nicholas deB. Katzenbach

Deputy Attorney General

You do know who was the Attorney General of the US, right?

 

[Bfgrn]

Nicholas deB. Katzenbach

Deputy Attorney General

You do know who was the Attorney General of the US, right?

I most certainly do. And Bobby was on the phone from Hickory Hill the night of his brother's assassination. His first inkling was the CIA.

Kennedy phoned CIA headquarters, just down the road in Langley, where he often began his day, stopping there to work on Cuba-related business. Bobby's phone call to Langley on the afternoon of Nov. 22 was a stunning outburst. Getting a ranking official on the phone -- whose identity is still unknown -- Kennedy confronted him in a voice vibrating with fury and pain. "Did your outfit have anything to do with this horror?" Kennedy erupted.

Later that day, RFK summoned the CIA director himself, John McCone, to ask him the same question. McCone, who had replaced the legendary Allen Dulles after the old spymaster had walked the plank for the Bay of Pigs, swore that his agency was not involved. But Bobby Kennedy knew that McCone, a wealthy Republican businessman from California with no intelligence background, did not have a firm grasp on all aspects of the agency's work. Real control over the clandestine service revolved around the No. 2 man, Richard Helms, the shrewd bureaucrat whose intelligence career went back to the agency's OSS origins in World War II. "It was clear that McCone was out of the loop -- Dick Helms was running the agency," recently commented RFK aide John Seigenthaler -- another crusading newspaper reporter, like Guthman, whom Bobby had recruited for his Justice Department team. "Anything McCone found out was by accident."

Kennedy had another revealing phone conversation on the afternoon of Nov. 22. Speaking with Enrique "Harry" Ruiz-Williams, a Bay of Pigs veteran who was his most trusted ally among exiled political leaders, Bobby shocked his friend by telling him point-blank, "One of your guys did it." Who did Kennedy mean? By then Oswald had been arrested in Dallas.

more

 

[Bfgrn]

Oswald read in the paper that JFKs motorcade would be driving by his place of work. So he took his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out

It's not hard

Was the man who impersonated Oswald in Mexico City a few weeks before the assassination also his paperboy?

 

[whitehall]

Oswald shot Kennedy. The question is who paid Jack Ruby to kill Oswald? There is a great Mel Gibson movie where his character is a Boston Detective and his daughter is murdered. A government hit-man tells Gibson that he gets paid to make incidents seem so confusing that people can't figure them out. The Warren Commission" mission was to cover the government's ass, not to uncover the truth. Oswald was a defector to Russia in the middle of the Cold War and the CIA welcomed him and his Russian wife who was the daughter of a KGB officer back to the US. WTF? The CIA lost track of Oswald while Bobby Kennedy was trying to kill Castro and Oswald turned up in Dallas. The last thing the government wanted was Oswald on the stand in a murder trial so they had him killed and they threw out crap about the "grassy knoll" just to confuse people.

 

[rightwinger]

Oswald shot Kennedy. The question is who paid Jack Ruby to kill Oswald? There is a great Mel Gibson movie where his character is a Boston Detective and his daughter is murdered. A government hit-man tells Gibson that he gets paid to make incidents seem so confusing that people can't figure them out. The Warren Commission" mission was to cover the government's ass, not to uncover the truth. Oswald was a defector to Russia in the middle of the Cold War and the CIA welcomed him and his Russian wife who was the daughter of a KGB officer back to the US. WTF? The CIA lost track of Oswald while Bobby Kennedy was trying to kill Castro and Oswald turned up in Dallas. The last thing the government wanted was Oswald on the stand in a murder trial so they had him killed and they threw out crap about the "grassy knoll" just to confuse people.

Jack Ruby was a local strip club owner who liked to hang out at the police station. He went to the local Western Union to send some money to one of his girls and then wandered over to the police station across the street to see what the commotion was about
He saw Oswald smirking as they led him out and became so enraged that he shot the SOB

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

All Oswald.

Lucky shot? It doesn't get easier than shooting at something moving in a straight line away from the shooter.

 

[rightwinger]

Oswald read in the paper that JFKs motorcade would be driving by his place of work. So he took his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out

It's not hard

Was the man who impersonated Oswald in Mexico City a few weeks before the assassination also his paperboy?

Some conspiracy. They planted Oswald to work at the School Book Depository on the chance that JFK might someday come to Dallas and ride in a parade past there

 

[yidnar]

Just curious so I thought I'd throw out a historical opinion question. Anyone here think Oswald shot Kennedy, or did other "forces" take him out.

to plan,prepare,and implement such an attack common sense says he did not act alone !!.............I suggest reading a book entitled Double Cross !!

Double cross: the explosive, inside story of the mobster who controlled America - Sam Giancana, Chuck Giancana - Google Books

 

[Vandalshandle]

JFK was actually shot by Sarah Palin. She thought he was a moose, having forgotten her glasses that day. Besides, it is hard to focus your visiion when shooting from a helicopter.

 

[candycorn]

Just curious so I thought I'd throw out a historical opinion question. Anyone here think Oswald shot Kennedy, or did other "forces" take him out.

No doubt Oswald did it.

I think it's also pretty clear that he was a member of some federal body at some point in his life. I mean the man immigrated to Russia then back again. That wasn't done much in the 1960's I don't believe...I don't think. It would be unusual today, would it not?

Anyway, I believe that the hit on President Kennedy was a grudge settlement on the part of Oswald either personal or from his handler over-seas.

Nothing else makes sense really.

 

[candycorn]

when is the warren commision report due to be released? another 10 years or so? always find it interesting they wanted all the players to be long dead before that is released. doubt anything new is in it though.

What are you talking about? 98 percent was released by 1992. The last bits will be released in 2017.

Here: Table of Contents

Wasn't there a 75 year seal put on it?

 

[Bfgrn]

Oswald read in the paper that JFKs motorcade would be driving by his place of work. So he took his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out

It's not hard

Was the man who impersonated Oswald in Mexico City a few weeks before the assassination also his paperboy?

Some conspiracy. They planted Oswald to work at the School Book Depository on the chance that JFK might someday come to Dallas and ride in a parade past there

Please tell me what possible motive someone would have to impersonate some unknown minimum wage worker named Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City?

"The CIA advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above, and have listened to a recording of his voice. These special agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald."

The paragraph shown above comes from an FBI memo sent to both the White House and the Secret Service on November 23, 1963, the day after President Kennedy's assassination. It was a follow-up to a phone call at 10:01 AM, in which Director Hoover informed Lyndon Johnson of the same fact. Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin of Kennedy held in police custody in Dallas, had been impersonated in phone calls to the Soviet Embassy in Mexio City.

The fact that Oswald was impersonated less than two months prior to the Dallas shooting was obviously important news. What made the revelation even more stunning was that, in one such call, "Oswald" referred to a previous meeting with a Soviet official named Kostikov. Valeriy Kostikov was well-known to the CIA and FBI as a KGB agent operating out of the Embassy under official cover. But, far more ominously, the FBI's "Tumbleweed" informant had previously tipped off the U.S. that Kostikov was a member of the KGB's "Department 13," involved in sabotage and assassinations.

An otherwise inexplicable impersonation episode takes on an entirely new meaning in this light. The calls from the Oswald impersonator made it appear that Oswald was a hired killer, hired by the Soviet Union no less. This was a prescription for World War III.

Perhaps the perfect plan was foiled by the fact that Oswald was captured, allowing the FBI to interrogate him and compare his voice to the tapes of these tapped phone calls, which were apparently flown up from the CIA's Mexico City Station on the evening of November 22. In any case, what should have been a hot lead to sophisticated conspirators was instead quickly buried—by November 25, FBI memos made no more mention of tapes, only transcripts. The CIA has maintained to this day that the tapes were routinely recycled prior to the assassination, and no tapes were ever sent. But the evidence that the tapes did exist and were listened to is now overwhelming, and includes several FBI memos, a call from Hoover to LBJ which appears to have been suspiciously erased, and even the word of two Warren Commission staffers who say they listened to the tapes during their visit to Mexico City in April 1964!

 

[legaleagle_45]

Was the man who impersonated Oswald in Mexico City a few weeks before the assassination also his paperboy?

Some conspiracy. They planted Oswald to work at the School Book Depository on the chance that JFK might someday come to Dallas and ride in a parade past there

Please tell me what possible motive someone would have to impersonate some unknown minimum wage worker named Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City?

"The CIA advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above, and have listened to a recording of his voice. These special agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald."

The paragraph shown above comes from an FBI memo sent to both the White House and the Secret Service on November 23, 1963, the day after President Kennedy's assassination. It was a follow-up to a phone call at 10:01 AM, in which Director Hoover informed Lyndon Johnson of the same fact. Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin of Kennedy held in police custody in Dallas, had been impersonated in phone calls to the Soviet Embassy in Mexio City.

The fact that Oswald was impersonated less than two months prior to the Dallas shooting was obviously important news. What made the revelation even more stunning was that, in one such call, "Oswald" referred to a previous meeting with a Soviet official named Kostikov. Valeriy Kostikov was well-known to the CIA and FBI as a KGB agent operating out of the Embassy under official cover. But, far more ominously, the FBI's "Tumbleweed" informant had previously tipped off the U.S. that Kostikov was a member of the KGB's "Department 13," involved in sabotage and assassinations.

An otherwise inexplicable impersonation episode takes on an entirely new meaning in this light. The calls from the Oswald impersonator made it appear that Oswald was a hired killer, hired by the Soviet Union no less. This was a prescription for World War III.

Perhaps the perfect plan was foiled by the fact that Oswald was captured, allowing the FBI to interrogate him and compare his voice to the tapes of these tapped phone calls, which were apparently flown up from the CIA's Mexico City Station on the evening of November 22. In any case, what should have been a hot lead to sophisticated conspirators was instead quickly buried—by November 25, FBI memos made no more mention of tapes, only transcripts. The CIA has maintained to this day that the tapes were routinely recycled prior to the assassination, and no tapes were ever sent. But the evidence that the tapes did exist and were listened to is now overwhelming, and includes several FBI memos, a call from Hoover to LBJ which appears to have been suspiciously erased, and even the word of two Warren Commission staffers who say they listened to the tapes during their visit to Mexico City in April 1964!

Report of the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

The question of an Oswald imposter was also raised in an FBI letterhead memorandum to the Secret Service dated November 23, 1963. It was based in part upon information received by CIA headquarters on October 9, 1963, that on October 1, 1963, Oswald had contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City:

The Central Intelligence Agency advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Tex., have observed photographs of the individual referred to above and have listened to a recording of his voice. These Special Agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald.

In response to a committee inquiry, the FBI reported that no tape recording of Oswald's voice was in fact ever received. The Bureau explained that its Dallas office only received the report of a conversation to which Oswald had been a party. This explanation was independently confirmed by the committee. A review of relevant FBI cable traffic established that at 7:23 p.m. (CST) on November 23, 1963, Dallas Special Agent-in-Charge Shanklin advised Director Hoover that only a report of this conversation was available, not an actual tape recording. On November 25, the Dallas office again apprised the Director that "[t]here appears to be some confusion in that no tapes were taken to Dallas * * * [O]nly typewritten [reports were] supplied * * *."
Shanklin stated in a committee interview that no recording was ever received by FBI officials in Dallas. Moreover, former FBI Special Agents James Hosty, John W. Fain, Burnett Tom Carter, and Arnold J. Brown, each of whom had conversed with Oswald at one time, informed the committee they had never listened to a recording of Oswald's voice.

Finally, on the basis of an extensive file review and detailed testimony by present and former CIA officials and employees, the committee determined that CIA headquarters never received a recording of Oswald's voice. The committee concluded, therefore, that the information in the November 23, 1963, letterhead memorandum was mistaken and did not provide a basis for concluding that there had been an Oswald imposter.

House Select Committee on Assassinations, Report, pp. 249-250.

J. Edgar Hoover Was Clueless About "Tape" Sent to Dallas

I am convinced that Evil Bert was involved.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

It was a suicide.

Duh.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

It was a suicide.

Duh.

Yup.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6naJ08Tskk&feature=player_embedded]JFK assination - Red Dwarf - BBC comedy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[numan]

'
Well, the House Committee on the Assassination came to the conclusion that a conspiracy was probably involved -- and then no money was ever appropriated to investigate further.

Only in America. · ·

The best movie made on the assassination was Executive Action [not "Executive Decision"], starring Burt Lancaster, Robert Ryan and Will Geer.

Good luck trying to get your hands on a copy.

Someone earlier was spot on when he wrote :

The objective of disinformation is not to convince you of one point of view or another, it is to create enough uncertainty so that everything is believable and nothing is knowable.
---James Fetzer

And yes, everything in the US went downhill after the coup.
.

 

[Bfgrn]

Some conspiracy. They planted Oswald to work at the School Book Depository on the chance that JFK might someday come to Dallas and ride in a parade past there

Please tell me what possible motive someone would have to impersonate some unknown minimum wage worker named Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City?

"The CIA advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above, and have listened to a recording of his voice. These special agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald."

The paragraph shown above comes from an FBI memo sent to both the White House and the Secret Service on November 23, 1963, the day after President Kennedy's assassination. It was a follow-up to a phone call at 10:01 AM, in which Director Hoover informed Lyndon Johnson of the same fact. Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin of Kennedy held in police custody in Dallas, had been impersonated in phone calls to the Soviet Embassy in Mexio City.

The fact that Oswald was impersonated less than two months prior to the Dallas shooting was obviously important news. What made the revelation even more stunning was that, in one such call, "Oswald" referred to a previous meeting with a Soviet official named Kostikov. Valeriy Kostikov was well-known to the CIA and FBI as a KGB agent operating out of the Embassy under official cover. But, far more ominously, the FBI's "Tumbleweed" informant had previously tipped off the U.S. that Kostikov was a member of the KGB's "Department 13," involved in sabotage and assassinations.

An otherwise inexplicable impersonation episode takes on an entirely new meaning in this light. The calls from the Oswald impersonator made it appear that Oswald was a hired killer, hired by the Soviet Union no less. This was a prescription for World War III.

Perhaps the perfect plan was foiled by the fact that Oswald was captured, allowing the FBI to interrogate him and compare his voice to the tapes of these tapped phone calls, which were apparently flown up from the CIA's Mexico City Station on the evening of November 22. In any case, what should have been a hot lead to sophisticated conspirators was instead quickly buried—by November 25, FBI memos made no more mention of tapes, only transcripts. The CIA has maintained to this day that the tapes were routinely recycled prior to the assassination, and no tapes were ever sent. But the evidence that the tapes did exist and were listened to is now overwhelming, and includes several FBI memos, a call from Hoover to LBJ which appears to have been suspiciously erased, and even the word of two Warren Commission staffers who say they listened to the tapes during their visit to Mexico City in April 1964!

Report of the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

The question of an Oswald imposter was also raised in an FBI letterhead memorandum to the Secret Service dated November 23, 1963. It was based in part upon information received by CIA headquarters on October 9, 1963, that on October 1, 1963, Oswald had contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City:

The Central Intelligence Agency advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Tex., have observed photographs of the individual referred to above and have listened to a recording of his voice. These Special Agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald.

In response to a committee inquiry, the FBI reported that no tape recording of Oswald's voice was in fact ever received. The Bureau explained that its Dallas office only received the report of a conversation to which Oswald had been a party. This explanation was independently confirmed by the committee. A review of relevant FBI cable traffic established that at 7:23 p.m. (CST) on November 23, 1963, Dallas Special Agent-in-Charge Shanklin advised Director Hoover that only a report of this conversation was available, not an actual tape recording. On November 25, the Dallas office again apprised the Director that "[t]here appears to be some confusion in that no tapes were taken to Dallas * * * [O]nly typewritten [reports were] supplied * * *."
Shanklin stated in a committee interview that no recording was ever received by FBI officials in Dallas. Moreover, former FBI Special Agents James Hosty, John W. Fain, Burnett Tom Carter, and Arnold J. Brown, each of whom had conversed with Oswald at one time, informed the committee they had never listened to a recording of Oswald's voice.

Finally, on the basis of an extensive file review and detailed testimony by present and former CIA officials and employees, the committee determined that CIA headquarters never received a recording of Oswald's voice. The committee concluded, therefore, that the information in the November 23, 1963, letterhead memorandum was mistaken and did not provide a basis for concluding that there had been an Oswald imposter.

House Select Committee on Assassinations, Report, pp. 249-250.

J. Edgar Hoover Was Clueless About "Tape" Sent to Dallas

I am convinced that Evil Bert was involved.

I see by your comment that you are going to take the 'condescending' approach. I have done a lot of reading and research on the JFK assassination over the years, starting in the early 70's. How much reading and research have you done on the JFK assassination?

I could get into a myriad of physical, medical, forensic and hard evidence. I don't know who killed President Kennedy. Oswald could have been one of the gunman. But there was more than one.

So what will be your approach? FYI, if you are going to use John C. McAdams as a reference, he is a university professor who believes strongly that Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, shot President Kennedy. You will always come to that same end with him.

 

[rightwinger]

Was the man who impersonated Oswald in Mexico City a few weeks before the assassination also his paperboy?

Some conspiracy. They planted Oswald to work at the School Book Depository on the chance that JFK might someday come to Dallas and ride in a parade past there

Please tell me what possible motive someone would have to impersonate some unknown minimum wage worker named Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City?

"The CIA advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above, and have listened to a recording of his voice. These special agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald."

The paragraph shown above comes from an FBI memo sent to both the White House and the Secret Service on November 23, 1963, the day after President Kennedy's assassination. It was a follow-up to a phone call at 10:01 AM, in which Director Hoover informed Lyndon Johnson of the same fact. Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin of Kennedy held in police custody in Dallas, had been impersonated in phone calls to the Soviet Embassy in Mexio City.

The fact that Oswald was impersonated less than two months prior to the Dallas shooting was obviously important news. What made the revelation even more stunning was that, in one such call, "Oswald" referred to a previous meeting with a Soviet official named Kostikov. Valeriy Kostikov was well-known to the CIA and FBI as a KGB agent operating out of the Embassy under official cover. But, far more ominously, the FBI's "Tumbleweed" informant had previously tipped off the U.S. that Kostikov was a member of the KGB's "Department 13," involved in sabotage and assassinations.

An otherwise inexplicable impersonation episode takes on an entirely new meaning in this light. The calls from the Oswald impersonator made it appear that Oswald was a hired killer, hired by the Soviet Union no less. This was a prescription for World War III.

Perhaps the perfect plan was foiled by the fact that Oswald was captured, allowing the FBI to interrogate him and compare his voice to the tapes of these tapped phone calls, which were apparently flown up from the CIA's Mexico City Station on the evening of November 22. In any case, what should have been a hot lead to sophisticated conspirators was instead quickly buried—by November 25, FBI memos made no more mention of tapes, only transcripts. The CIA has maintained to this day that the tapes were routinely recycled prior to the assassination, and no tapes were ever sent. But the evidence that the tapes did exist and were listened to is now overwhelming, and includes several FBI memos, a call from Hoover to LBJ which appears to have been suspiciously erased, and even the word of two Warren Commission staffers who say they listened to the tapes during their visit to Mexico City in April 1964!

Um.....who the fuck cares?
Put him on the grassy knoll and we can talk