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Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse

bendog

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A new Supreme Court case is the biggest threat to US democracy since January 6​

The Supreme Court’s announcement on Thursday that it will hear Moore v. Harper, a case that could concentrate an unprecedented amount of power in gerrymandered state legislatures, should alarm anyone who cares about democracy.

The case is perhaps the gravest threat to American democracy since the January 6 attack. It seeks to reinstate gerrymandered congressional maps that were struck down by North Carolina’s highest court because they “subordinated traditional neutral redistricting criteria in favor of extreme partisan advantage” for the Republican Party.

The plaintiffs argue that the state supreme court didn’t have the authority to strike down these maps, and rest their claim on legal arguments that would fundamentally alter how congressional and presidential elections are conducted.

Moore involves the “independent state legislature doctrine,” a theory that the Supreme Court has rejected many times over the course of more than a century — but that started to gain steam after Republican appointees gained a supermajority on the Supreme Court at the end of the Trump administration.


Given the Court's propensity for making ideological rather than legally based rulings, this one seems like a foregone conclusion. It will empower Repubs to structure districts to ensure they remain in power even when they receive a minority of votes.

Today, we answer this question: does our state constitution recognize that the people of this state have the power to choose those who govern us, by giving each of us an equally powerful voice through our vote? Or does our constitution give to members of the General Assembly, as they argue here, unlimited power to draw electoral maps that keep themselves and our members of Congress in office as long as they want, regardless of the will of the people, by making some votes more powerful than others? We hold that our constitution’s Declaration of Rights guarantees the equal power of each person’s voice in our government through voting in elections that matter.

It is naked power grabs like this that cause me to encourage Dems to fight fire with fire. Manchin's naivete comes to mind. Holding to the silly notion there are still Repubs of good will, willing to compromise for the greater good. If Trump's presidency and McConnell's duplicity in stealing two SC seats teaches us anything it's we have jettisoned the era of tradition, protocol, mutual respect, and precedent. Nowadays, it's all about obtaining power by any means available with no regard for the consequences. And boy, the Repubs are good at it.
So long as the SC continues to allow legislatures, and citizens though initiative and referendum in states that allow that, to continue to delegate the duty of setting districts, setting election laws, and setting procedures to challenge elections ... I'm ok.
But I will not be at all surprised if they hold all that is NOT ok, and all decisions must be partisan.
 

WTH_Progs?

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It's been under attack since trump got in office. I did vote for the guy then started seeing all the shit he was pulling during his four years. November 7th was a warning to beware of him and most republicans.

Give us an example of "the attack". Other than the left stealing the election I mean.
 
OP
berg80

berg80

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We're whining about Republicans in this thread, but democrats don't want a real solution either because what they really want is to be able to draw the maps the way THEY want them drawn.
How does the proposal that districts be drawn by non-partisan commissions result in maps being drawn "the way THEY want them drawn." The reason Repubs began the strategy of gaining control of the courts decades ago is they understood the policy positions they favored were not popular with the majority. And because demographic trends at the time indicated their minority would get even smaller. So, not needed to find a way to enact their agenda outside of legislative means.
 

iceberg

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A new Supreme Court case is the biggest threat to US democracy since January 6​

The Supreme Court’s announcement on Thursday that it will hear Moore v. Harper, a case that could concentrate an unprecedented amount of power in gerrymandered state legislatures, should alarm anyone who cares about democracy.

The case is perhaps the gravest threat to American democracy since the January 6 attack. It seeks to reinstate gerrymandered congressional maps that were struck down by North Carolina’s highest court because they “subordinated traditional neutral redistricting criteria in favor of extreme partisan advantage” for the Republican Party.

The plaintiffs argue that the state supreme court didn’t have the authority to strike down these maps, and rest their claim on legal arguments that would fundamentally alter how congressional and presidential elections are conducted.

Moore involves the “independent state legislature doctrine,” a theory that the Supreme Court has rejected many times over the course of more than a century — but that started to gain steam after Republican appointees gained a supermajority on the Supreme Court at the end of the Trump administration.


Given the Court's propensity for making ideological rather than legally based rulings, this one seems like a foregone conclusion. It will empower Repubs to structure districts to ensure they remain in power even when they receive a minority of votes.

Today, we answer this question: does our state constitution recognize that the people of this state have the power to choose those who govern us, by giving each of us an equally powerful voice through our vote? Or does our constitution give to members of the General Assembly, as they argue here, unlimited power to draw electoral maps that keep themselves and our members of Congress in office as long as they want, regardless of the will of the people, by making some votes more powerful than others? We hold that our constitution’s Declaration of Rights guarantees the equal power of each person’s voice in our government through voting in elections that matter.

It is naked power grabs like this that cause me to encourage Dems to fight fire with fire. Manchin's naivete comes to mind. Holding to the silly notion there are still Repubs of good will, willing to compromise for the greater good. If Trump's presidency and McConnell's duplicity in stealing two SC seats teaches us anything it's we have jettisoned the era of tradition, protocol, mutual respect, and precedent. Nowadays, it's all about obtaining power by any means available with no regard for the consequences. And boy, the Repubs are good at it.
It's the dems bullshit that caused this.
 
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berg80

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So long as the SC continues to allow legislatures, and citizens though initiative and referendum in states that allow that, to continue to delegate the duty of setting districts, setting election laws, and setting procedures to challenge elections ... I'm ok.
Allowing legislatures to draw maps ensures partisanship in that endeavor will continue. Not only do we need agreed upon national standards for election laws, we need to take the drawing of district maps out of the hands of politicians.
 
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berg80

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Donald H

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It already happened, duck. January 20, 2021. STFU
It's not yet happened my friend but it's in full motion heading toward a fascist takeover. Rights and freedoms are being destroyed at an increasing rate and that's actually being celebrated on account of domestic political bias. We should all get together and form a list of liberties lost.

I may be able to be helpful from a Canadian POV on account of my country still having all of our rights and freedoms intact.

However, allow me to use this opportunity you've offered to inform Americans that abortions are available in Canada and for a more affordable cost. Airfare to Canada and the procedure will likely be less expensive than in your own state ladies!
 

Concerned American

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We should all get together and form a list of liberties lost.
Tell me, duck, how have you lost ANY liberties? You are a fucking Canadian--you are not in the slightest way affected by US domestic policy. Tell the truth now. You are a fascist, commie who would welcome the CCP or Russian way of governing. You prove it all the time by your unfettered support of Turdeau. You don't know WTF you are talking about so just STFU.
 

bendog

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Allowing legislatures to draw maps ensures partisanship in that endeavor will continue. Not only do we need agreed upon national standards for election laws, we need to take the drawing of district maps out of the hands of politicians.
I don't think its a federal issue. But I don't trust the McConnel 4, or Thomas ... or really Alito. LOL They will selectively read anything to find a way to remove individual rights in favor of the state. I can easily see how the SC would invalidate any citizen initiated requirement for an independent review of voting districts.
 

hadit

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How does the proposal that districts be drawn by non-partisan commissions result in maps being drawn "the way THEY want them drawn." The reason Repubs began the strategy of gaining control of the courts decades ago is they understood the policy positions they favored were not popular with the majority. And because demographic trends at the time indicated their minority would get even smaller. So, not needed to find a way to enact their agenda outside of legislative means.
Because "non-partisan" inevitably devolves into corruption:

1. Who is on the committee? If they are legislators, they have a vested interest in the outcome, and thus can hardly be non-partisan. There are more than two parties, are you going to account for representation from them as well, or are you going to restrict membership to just the two big ones?
2. Who picks the committee members? This is just as important as who is on the committee. Inevitably the party in power will pack the committee with their chosen lackeys and the result will end up favoring that party.

Are you really going to be happy with the maps if Republicans have a great deal of influence over how they're drawn?

If you give the democrats control over who draws the maps, you might as well just let them draw the maps directly and stop hiding behind a facade. No, much better to let blind mapping software create districts of roughly equal size and shape, taking partisanship out of it.
 

hadit

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It's not yet happened my friend but it's in full motion heading toward a fascist takeover. Rights and freedoms are being destroyed at an increasing rate and that's actually being celebrated on account of domestic political bias. We should all get together and form a list of liberties lost.

I may be able to be helpful from a Canadian POV on account of my country still having all of our rights and freedoms intact.

However, allow me to use this opportunity you've offered to inform Americans that abortions are available in Canada and for a more affordable cost. Airfare to Canada and the procedure will likely be less expensive than in your own state ladies!
And again it all boils down to the most sacred of liberal cows, abortion.
 

CrusaderFrank

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A new Supreme Court case is the biggest threat to US democracy since January 6​

The Supreme Court’s announcement on Thursday that it will hear Moore v. Harper, a case that could concentrate an unprecedented amount of power in gerrymandered state legislatures, should alarm anyone who cares about democracy.

The case is perhaps the gravest threat to American democracy since the January 6 attack. It seeks to reinstate gerrymandered congressional maps that were struck down by North Carolina’s highest court because they “subordinated traditional neutral redistricting criteria in favor of extreme partisan advantage” for the Republican Party.

The plaintiffs argue that the state supreme court didn’t have the authority to strike down these maps, and rest their claim on legal arguments that would fundamentally alter how congressional and presidential elections are conducted.

Moore involves the “independent state legislature doctrine,” a theory that the Supreme Court has rejected many times over the course of more than a century — but that started to gain steam after Republican appointees gained a supermajority on the Supreme Court at the end of the Trump administration.


Given the Court's propensity for making ideological rather than legally based rulings, this one seems like a foregone conclusion. It will empower Repubs to structure districts to ensure they remain in power even when they receive a minority of votes.

Today, we answer this question: does our state constitution recognize that the people of this state have the power to choose those who govern us, by giving each of us an equally powerful voice through our vote? Or does our constitution give to members of the General Assembly, as they argue here, unlimited power to draw electoral maps that keep themselves and our members of Congress in office as long as they want, regardless of the will of the people, by making some votes more powerful than others? We hold that our constitution’s Declaration of Rights guarantees the equal power of each person’s voice in our government through voting in elections that matter.

It is naked power grabs like this that cause me to encourage Dems to fight fire with fire. Manchin's naivete comes to mind. Holding to the silly notion there are still Repubs of good will, willing to compromise for the greater good. If Trump's presidency and McConnell's duplicity in stealing two SC seats teaches us anything it's we have jettisoned the era of tradition, protocol, mutual respect, and precedent. Nowadays, it's all about obtaining power by any means available with no regard for the consequences. And boy, the Repubs are good at it.

Gerrymandering, named after a democrat, is only cool when it benefits democrats who have since rebranded it as redistricting...redistricting
 

hadit

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I don't think its a federal issue. But I don't trust the McConnel 4, or Thomas ... or really Alito. LOL They will selectively read anything to find a way to remove individual rights in favor of the state. I can easily see how the SC would invalidate any citizen initiated requirement for an independent review of voting districts.
IOW, it all comes down to this. You want democrats to control the situation, full stop.
 

Aldo Raine

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Gerrymandered maps submitted by Repubs in OH have repeatedly been rejected by the state's SC.


So the Repub leadership is just ignoring the rulings and putting the maps in place anyway.


Yes they have and they are running out of time to get the new maps drawn.
MAGA
 

1srelluc

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6lhzih.jpg
 

Orangecat

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A new Supreme Court case is the biggest threat to US democracy since January 6​

That's not saying much, considering 1/6 was not a threat to democracy whatsoever.
 

Concerned American

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No, much better to let blind mapping software create districts of roughly equal size and shape
Geographic size and shape won't get it. The maps are drawn to represent roughly equal populations. Where that becomes a problem is that, because of gerrymandering, the party in power will sometimes draw narrow extensions of a district to include "a few" of the opposing party in a district that is grossly over-represented by their party of choice. Drawing districts is highly complex, but I agree, they should be drawn in a way that they follow a rectangular shape, regardless of physical size, for example, to include equal population numbers. But even then, I could see plenty of opportunity for partisan mischief.
 

CrusaderFrank

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Please don't.
Your message is being read but don't expect a rational reply from those who applaud the issue you raise.
There are still some ways of being effective without going with the spamming.

Your country is at risk of a fascist takeover of democracy.

That should make it worthwhile to you annd other Americans to keep your hand in.

The next Republican President will send the FBI after people speaking out at school board meetings!!! Fascism!!
 

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