Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse

[Donald H]

Tell me, duck, how have you lost ANY liberties?

That's my point exactly! Canada has been able to get through these troubled times with our liberties intact! While America is in complete turmoil, and we're learning more about it every day through discussions such as this one in which Americans are talking about the issues. The denial of abortion rights to women is just one example but It's a huge example of a step backward toward fascism, in a democracy!

You are a fucking Canadian--you are not in the slightest way affected by US domestic policy.

I'm a Canadian! The effects of US domestic policy as well as foreign policy are quite obvious and could/should become a topic for discussiion. For instance, US corrupt domestic policy of the D party has had a very big influence on US foreign policy, and that has a very negative effect on the prospect of world peace.

Tell the truth now. You are a fascist, commie who would welcome the CCP or Russian way of governing.

In truth, I welcome much that is the opposite of the US way of governing. In some cases that could very well be congruent with Russia's way. But a better explanation is that the Canadian way is now very different from the American way, and that should explain it in rough detail.

You prove it all the time by your unfettered support of Turdeau.

I do support the Liberal government which is Trudeau's government. It's hitting the political nail on the head on account of the Liberals' need to compromise with the leftist NDP. Together, the NDP and Liberals can be said to have found a marriage in *heaven.

You don't know WTF you are talking about so just STFU.

I learn more every day on the breaking down of the American way. Especially on the most important issue to the rest of the world which is America's war with Russia. And of course, each remark from you and others brings out new ideas that require some discussion. We may not agree all the time but we are always bringing forth options to others who are inept enough to ask questions.

* not a literal heaven, a figment of imaginations.

 

[hadit]

And you want facists. Happy now? (Rodney Dangerfield)

Then why aren't you backing the idea of taking the whole thing completely out of human hands? You're just wanting democrat control at this point.

 

[Donald H]

Geographic size and shape won't get it. The maps are drawn to represent roughly equal populations. Where that becomes a problem is that, because of gerrymandering, the party in power will sometimes draw narrow extensions of a district to include "a few" of the opposing party in a district that is grossly over-represented by their party of choice. Drawing districts is highly complex, but I agree, they should be drawn in a way that they follow a rectangular shape, regardless of physical size, for example, to include equal population numbers. But even then, I could see plenty of opportunity for partisan mischief.

You only err in saying that a district should be drawn to represent a rectangular shape.
But on a positive note, you're aiding a discussion that is illustrative of America's spiralling breakdown of rights and freedoms.

Your keeping the discussion generic is much more productive than trying to bring D/R bias into the topic.

And again, some guidance is available through the Canadian expeience!

 

[Donald H]

The next Republican President will send the FBI after people speaking out at school board meetings!!! Fascism!!

That's a revealing comment Frank, but is it true or is it an exaggeration that's based on popular predictions?

Perhaps further discussion on the issue is possible if you can keep it polite and civil?

 

[Concerned American]

Canada has been able to get through these troubled times with our liberties intact!

Canada is a fascist state.

The denial of abortion rights to women

The SCOTUS did not deny abortion rights. If you knew anything about the subject you would know that. Again, how does it affect you, duck? Quit trying to influence US policy, you have no standing.

in a democracy!

Your ignorance on display again. America is a republic--not a democracy.

The effects of US domestic policy as well as foreign policy

US domestic policy and foreign policy are grossly different, butt out of domestic issues that you have no standing in. Get your own fucked up country in order.

But a better explanation is that the Canadian way is now very different from the American way

True, we abhor fascism while you and Turdeau embrace it.

I learn more every day on the breaking down of the American way.

How could you miss it with the illegal, globalist crap that the democrats are foisting on this population. Bottom line, duck. Keep your nose on your side of the border. We don't need or want your fascist advice.

 

[hadit]

You only err in saying that a district should be drawn to represent a rectangular shape.
But on a positive note, you're aiding a discussion that is illustrative of America's spiralling breakdown of rights and freedoms.

Your keeping the discussion generic is much more productive than trying to bring D/R bias into the topic.

And again, some guidance is available through the Canadian expeience!

Almost any polygonal shape would be superior to the salamanders they come up with. Of course, you'll have some odd shapes around the edges because states are not bordered by straight lines, but hexagons fit neatly together. Mapping software can draw sizes to represent population counts. A district might be two city blocks, or it could be 100 square miles of countryside.

 

[Concerned American]

You only err in saying that a district should be drawn to represent a rectangular shape.
But on a positive note, you're aiding a discussion that is illustrative of America's spiralling breakdown of rights and freedoms.

Your keeping the discussion generic is much more productive than trying to bring D/R bias into the topic.

And again, some guidance is available through the Canadian expeience!

LMAO, experience that is 100 years shorter than ours. You're a fucking idiot. We chose self government over being under the thumb of a foreign monarchy, which you folks are still beholden to, duck. That is why you embrace fascism, communism and globalism. You know nothing of freedom because you have become so accustomed to being told what to do.

 

[bendog]

Geographic size and shape won't get it. The maps are drawn to represent roughly equal populations. Where that becomes a problem is that, because of gerrymandering, the party in power will sometimes draw narrow extensions of a district to include "a few" of the opposing party in a district that is grossly over-represented by their party of choice. Drawing districts is highly complex, but I agree, they should be drawn in a way that they follow a rectangular shape, regardless of physical size, for example, to include equal population numbers. But even then, I could see plenty of opportunity for partisan mischief.

I just don't care really. Some states want gerrymandering, others don't. But unlike the textual literalists, who are ignoring they are dealing with documents created before there were political parties, I don't see what is constitutionally offensive about having citizens themselves, or even legislatures, differing power to some scheme they consider "more fair." If voters decide they don't like it, they can always vote again.

But the textual literalists tend to read documents to reach the result they want ... just like other Justices have done. But the Federalist Society is bought and paid for by corporate interests.
The Federalist Society receives significant funding from libertarian industrialists, including the Koch brothers, Richard Mellon Scaife’s foundation and the Mercer family.

Why There’s No Liberal Federalist Society

The legal left has a money problem, a history problem and—maybe worst of all—a big-idea problem.

www.politico.com

I don't have any gripe with leaving power at the state rather then federal level. I don't even have a constitutional gripe with Dobbs and letting states decide how abortion is regulated, and I actually think the const is pretty much silent on a woman's right to physical autonomy. I think poor women will suffer, but .... maybe citizens should do something about that. I certainly don't have a gripe with to striking down NYC's concealed carry law ... so long as citizens have a right to demand some rational means to regulate concealed carry.

But if people decide they want a state commission to do districting, or they want some regulation of carrying firearms, or even that they want congress to find a way to make health insurance more affordable .... it doesn't harm me beyond possibly making me pay some tax. But the more power you take away from people to directly vote on how they want their govt to function ... the more power you give to folks like the Kochs or Mellon-Scafide family, who have very specific agendas to personally benefit themselves.

 

[bendog]

Then why aren't you backing the idea of taking the whole thing completely out of human hands? You're just wanting democrat control at this point.

Actually isn't there some software? If citizens of a state, or their elected officials, think some algorithm(s) will do better ... why not. Or if they really want partisan gerrymandering ... I think the const allows them that right.

 

[hadit]

Actually isn't there some software? If citizens of a state, or their elected officials, think some algorithm(s) will do better ... why not. Or if they really want partisan gerrymandering ... I think the const allows them that right.

I'm saying you will NEVER get rid of gerrymandering as long as humans are drawing the maps and they have a blank canvas to start on.

 

[bendog]

I'm saying you will NEVER get rid of gerrymandering as long as humans are drawing the maps and they have a blank canvas to start on.

And regardless of any factual accuracy to your statement (and there isn't btw, because there is not a blank slate) it is irrelevant to the question of whether citizens or the Five Federalist Justices get to decide how districts are drawn.

 

[Donald H]

LMAO, experience that is 100 years shorter than ours.

True that our experience is roughly 100 years shorter than Americas. But a point worth my time to acknowledge in that while Canada was accepting slaves through the underground, America was involved in the practice of lynching the black population.

You're a fucking idiot.

Indeed! You're backsliding again but I'll persevere in the interest of now just ignoring some valid points you are able to make when you don't choose to be angry and childish.

We chose self government over being under the thumb of a foreign monarchy, which you folks are still beholden to, duck.

In truth, the British monarchy is nothing more than symbolic and the Canadian people continue to uphold it as that. But also quite true is that Americans generally refer to her as the queen. What queen would they be referring to? The queen of the Netherlands? The point is, America is probably more enthralled with a 'queen' than many Canadians. Do I personally want Canada to recognize our/Britains queen? I'm undecided on account of ther being pros and cons. Do Americans want to share our queen? undoubtedly they do!

That is why you embrace fascism, communism and globalism. You know nothing of freedom because you have become so accustomed to being told what to do.

Canada's track record on rights and freedoms as opposed to America's, isn't up for discussion. America slipped to 58th. and has no doubt slid further with the destroying women's rights to abortion. America now stands separate from the world's modern democracies, of which Canada is one of the leaders. This is of course one of my personal hot button issues I'm always anxious to discuss with you.

Why Concerned, Canada allowed the truckers to protest for over a month and no murder took place. As opposed to America's peaceful protest in which upwards of a dozen police officers and mobsters were murdered on the very first day. There was no second day.

Can you relate to some other instances in which our countries can be compared on rights and freedoms?

edit: did I fail to address any of our/your issues?

 

[22lcidw]

For the sake of discussion let's say that's true. What defense can you offer to continue a clearly anti-democratic practice Dems want to end?

Progs have won agendas. Many agendas it is time to rest for a while. And you won't.

 

[Donald H]

I just don't care really. Some states want gerrymandering, others don't. But unlike the textual literalists, who are ignoring they are dealing with documents created before there were political parties, I don't see what is constitutionally offensive about having citizens themselves, or even legislatures, differing power to some scheme they consider "more fair." If voters decide they don't like it, they can always vote again.

But the textual literalists tend to read documents to reach the result they want ... just like other Justices have done. But the Federalist Society is bought and paid for by corporate interests.
The Federalist Society receives significant funding from libertarian industrialists, including the Koch brothers, Richard Mellon Scaife’s foundation and the Mercer family.

Why There’s No Liberal Federalist Society

The legal left has a money problem, a history problem and—maybe worst of all—a big-idea problem.

www.politico.com

I don't have any gripe with leaving power at the state rather then federal level. I don't even have a constitutional gripe with Dobbs and letting states decide how abortion is regulated, and I actually think the const is pretty much silent on a woman's right to physical autonomy. I think poor women will suffer, but .... maybe citizens should do something about that. I certainly don't have a gripe with to striking down NYC's concealed carry law ... so long as citizens have a right to demand some rational means to regulate concealed carry.

But if people decide they want a state commission to do districting, or they want some regulation of carrying firearms, or even that they want congress to find a way to make health insurance more affordable .... it doesn't harm me beyond possibly making me pay some tax. But the more power you take away from people to directly vote on how they want their govt to function ... the more power you give to folks like the Kochs or Mellon-Scafide family, who have very specific agendas to personally benefit themselves.

I'm afraid that you aren't taking 'Concerned' biased motives into account. That is something that can't be dislodged by rational pleas to fairness in the system, in order to uphold or bring back rights and freedoms.

I would suggest stepping back to the root causes of the move toward fascism, and the racism issue is the best place to start. Fascism equals racism, more than any other cause!

 

[bendog]

I'm afraid that you aren't taking 'Concerned' biased motives into account. That is something that can't be dislodged by rational pleas to fairness in the system, in order to uphold or bring back rights and freedoms.

I would suggest stepping back to the root causes of the move toward fascism, and the racism issue is the best place to start. Fascism equals racism, more than any other cause!

That made sense to ya, now? LOL.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That's a revealing comment Frank, but is it true or is it an exaggeration that's based on popular predictions?

Perhaps further discussion on the issue is possible if you can keep it polite and civil?

Aren't Fascist Progressives, but I repeat myself, sending the FBI out to silence parents speaking out at local school boards? Did the National School Board Association request this?

 

[eagle7-31]

For the sake of discussion let's say that's true. What defense can you offer to continue a clearly anti-democratic practice Dems want to end?

The demrats don't want to end gerrymandering unless they are the ones doing it.

 

[blackhawk]

Oh please you guys think anything you don’t agree with is biggest threat to democracy. The left probably think preferring Coke Cola over Pepsi is a threat to democracy.

 

[Donald H]

Aren't Fascist Progressives,

You must mean Progressives in the sense of them being Democratic party supporters? in the context of what is happening in America, I would suggest that they are less so. But reality says that the R/D divide isn't going to play a part in America's acceptance of fascism.
The reason: Trump found the hearts of the American working class by offering them relief and a piece of the American pie. And that relief needed to be routed through fascism. Racism and his border wall for just two examples.

but I repeat myself, sending the FBI out to silence parents speaking out at local school boards? Did the National School Board Association request this?

And I'll repeat the question on it actually happening?

If so then you're nailing it on the ideals of fascism.

Don't let the question go! Many Americans on this board are starting to realize how fascist ideals are taking over and the charges of fascism can no longer be denied.

 

[berg80]

It's not yet happened my friend but it's in full motion heading toward a fascist takeover. Rights and freedoms are being destroyed at an increasing rate and that's actually being celebrated on account of domestic political bias. We should all get together and form a list of liberties lost.

I may be able to be helpful from a Canadian POV on account of my country still having all of our rights and freedoms intact.

However, allow me to use this opportunity you've offered to inform Americans that abortions are available in Canada and for a more affordable cost. Airfare to Canada and the procedure will likely be less expensive than in your own state ladies!

As soon as the ruling was announced my wife and I contributed to a fund that pays for women who can't afford it to travel outside their state to get abortion services. I encourage anyone of like mind to do the same.