Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[Gem]

Samson Wrote:

So, in your opinion, states without collective bargaining have bad teachers (all others having left teaching because the pay is low)

Which State is that?

Not all states allow teacher unions to collectively bargain: E.g. Texas

But Texas has some of the most highly rated (Newsweek's 100 BEST HIGH SCHOOL's in the USA) public schools?

No, not saying that at all. Remember, I support the idea of ending collective bargaining. I'm simply stating that it brings with it its own unique concerns, difficulties, challenges and problems.

I think that people are looking for a quick fix. Do I think teachers unions hold some responsibility as to why public education is failing? Sure. Do I think they are the main problem as to why our kids are falling behind? I don't know about that...but I DO think that they are much easier target politically than any of the other culprits. And, to be frank...THATS what I think this is really about. Scoring political points by pointing to the easiest boogeyman in the room and blaming it all on him rather than trying to take a look at what is REALLY wrong...and then setting about fixing it.

 

[chanel]

I have much to say on this subject. I am a public school teacher and I send my kids ro private school. Not unlike many teachers I work with.

The faculty and curriculum are far superior in public school. The discipline and moral education is far superior in Catholic school. It's a personal choice as to what is best for your kid. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have both? But that is pie in the sky. Unions are not the problem. It's the whole fucking system of "no child left behind" and "college for all". There is plenty of blame to go around when Johnny can't read. But if you think teachers should hold kids back until they do, speak up. The teachers are sympatico - the bureaucrats and the parents? Not so much.

I have students who admit they have never done homework, and never studied for a tesr. Now theyv are in 12th grade. Who's fault is that? Everyone's. The least being the kid who knows nothing else. We enable laziness. We reward bad behavior. And we celebrate mediocrity. Welcome to America. Schools are only a microcosm of our communities.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be able to be salvaged.

I know dozens of private school teachers and none of them are in a union. I wonder why they are necessary in public schools. Anyone know?

Look to the average pay for private school teachers compared to public school teachers and their turnover rate. Plus, let me point out that private schools get to pick and choose their clientele. Public schools do not. I have a close friend who has an ED student (emotionally disturbed) student in his class ever day...when he is not suspended for threatening other students, teachers, administrators. He is horribly misplaced but the parents INSIST on him being in the "least restrictive environment". So this student threatens others, makes noises in class and refuses to work. And because this is a public school, the school, the administrators, the teachers have no choice. Tell me a private school that would accept that.

This is what happens when you play by the do good libs rules and spare the rod. The school needs to take care of the problem if the parents won't.

 

[Wicked Jester]

To a degree I agree with Gem. Truth of the matter is that Unions have protected the worst of teachers, doing away with that is good. However, the real issue for failure doesn't lie with teachers, but with parenting and the expectations that somehow 'schools' or 'teachers' can fix what's broken.

There's been bad parenting from day one. No doubt about it. It just seems that nowadays it's gotten worse. No doubt due to many factors, too include the nanny state culture that many kids are being raised under. Their parents make a living on welfare so, the kids say fuck it, why work hard in school when I can just milk it and get free shit later on in life, and supplement my tax payer given income by selling drugs or whatnot just like mommy and daddy do?

The teachers blame the parents, and vice versa. Fact is, they've both become a problem. Disban the unions who blatantly protect incompetence and start using existing LAWS and create new LAWS to go after dysfunctional parents. Despite what the ACLU might whine about.

What an incompetent teacher, and who is protecting one?? Sounds like a mythical paradigm your erecting down in the basement. I got to ask you. When you went to school did you have any incompetent teachers?

Further, attempting to disban Unions is UnAmerican and anticapitalist to the core. What do you do for a living? Maybe we should cut your wages or just throw your sorry ass out the door and let an illegal do what you do for a plate of beans a day.

Actually, I had a couple of teachers that weren't that great......One was a drunk, who smelled like cheap scotch all the time. He was fired halfway through the school year. It's nice to know he's still alive and posting under the name of Shintao on this message board

 

[Gem]

Wicked Jester Wrote:

As opposed to the bill we are now paying for abjectly incompetent teachers who are being protected by abjectly corrupt unions?

I guarantee the bill will be much smaller in the end if this countries children are being educated instead of being warehoused for 6-7 hours a day.

I'll be glad to see my taxpaying dollars go to funding well paying salary's for competent teachers who aren't working under the shield of union corruption.

So it sounds to me like we are in complete agreement - we both are fine with paying teachers what they are worth. How nice to agree.

 

[Avatar4321]

13 pages on it and it's the kids getting screwed.

 

[Samson]

You make this sound like news?

Who expected to be highly paid for a teaching certificate?

Sorry, but if teachers wanted higher pay, then THEY SHOULDn"T HAVE BEEN TEACHERS.

Maybe it's me, but I find an average salary in the mid-high 40's pretty good. In more generous, populated states quite a bit higher. My local districts have an average in the high 50's for unit districts, secondary districts are in the mid-60's. Both of these are before extra curricular pay.

And you understand this pay is usually after over 10 years of service.

So what?

Is there another job in Government Service that makes more for 200 days of attendance/yr and a Degree in Education?

 

[Samson]

I have much to say on this subject. I am a public school teacher and I send my kids ro privatee school. Not unlike many teachers I work with.

You must make more $$ than me.

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

.

I'll second that!

Prairie Fire in Madison​

From grudging complacency to thousands on the streets, Wisconsin’s protests are spreading like a prairie fire. With notable work over the years done by small numbers of committed activists aside, widespread political activism has been dormant in Wisconsin.

Wisconsin is the state where Fighting Bob La Follette led the progressive movement a century back and was the first state where public employees secured the right to collectively bargain in 1959. Wisconsites have enjoyed the equity of this past activism for decades, yet 30 years after Ronald Reagan launched his class war against workers, labor is finally taking a stand.

After a series of cascading factory closings, longer work weeks, shortened leisure, lowered expectations and heightened insecurity Wisconsin labor is saying “enough.”

Enter Governor Scott Walker to drop a match to the parched prairie and start the flames of resistance.


Christopher Fons: Prairie Fire in Madison

 

[AmericanFirst]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be able to be salvaged.

What educational system are you a product of, besides talk radio?

The school of common sense, unlike the libs, they went to the school of socialist brainwashing.

 

[Charles_Main]

That may be true but they receive other great benefits no other occupations have. All Weekends off,several weeks of paid Holiday Time off,and entire Summers off? That seems pretty nice to most outside observers. Look around America and see how many other Americans enjoy those kinds of benefits. The Teacher Unions are only trouble at this point. They've outlived their usefulness. They only stand for greed and political activism at this point. It's time for them to get the boot once and for all. Our kids deserve better.

you hit the nail on the head right there. Not only do they get great benefits, and retirement. Most teachers have about 4 Months a year off. So they are often able to work in those 4 months in other jobs. People talk about their Salaries as if they are annual when in fact they are paid that amount for 2/3rds of a year.

yes they are...and they are still the lowest paid professionals (requiring minimum of 5 years of college and certification) out there.

Actually if you take their Annual Salaries and divide them buy 8 (the number of months they usually have to work for it) you will see they make pretty good money. If they are able to work the 4 Months of Down time with work, they can make a relatively good salary.

The simple truth here people, is we have no money. Wisconsin has no Money. It is very easy to sit around saying we need to pay teachers more, it is much harder when confronted with the cold hard fiscal facts to actually justify doing it.

Republicans have been pushing for more Vouchers to private schools for a long time. Private schools are usually profit driven and therefore actually care about the quality of Education they are giving, and the sustainability of the pay they are paying out. If they do not excel at teaching, people will not pay to send their kids to their schools.

Nobody is saying Public School Teachers do not care about the kids, what I am saying is their Union does not give a fuck about the kids, or whether or not the pay and Benefits they demand, can be sustained by the tax payers paying for them. Because of the power of the Unions, Schools systems can not even get rid of Bad teachers. They just move them around when they get complaints, because it is nearly impossible to fire one.

Don't even get me started on Tenure. It would take 2 whole more threads for me to explain how much I think that practice needs to go.

 

[Samson]

Samson Wrote:

So, in your opinion, states without collective bargaining have bad teachers (all others having left teaching because the pay is low)

Which State is that?

Not all states allow teacher unions to collectively bargain: E.g. Texas

But Texas has some of the most highly rated (Newsweek's 100 BEST HIGH SCHOOL's in the USA) public schools?

No, not saying that at all. Remember, I support the idea of ending collective bargaining. I'm simply stating that it brings with it its own unique concerns, difficulties, challenges and problems.

I think that people are looking for a quick fix. Do I think teachers unions hold some responsibility as to why public education is failing? Sure. Do I think they are the main problem as to why our kids are falling behind? I don't know about that...but I DO think that they are much easier target politically than any of the other culprits. And, to be frank...THATS what I think this is really about. Scoring political points by pointing to the easiest boogeyman in the room and blaming it all on him rather than trying to take a look at what is REALLY wrong...and then setting about fixing it.

I'm still waiting for you to produce any evidence that without collective bargaining, schools have unqualified teachers.

The fact is, that it makes no difference.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Ever notice how the Right Wing constantly wants to undermine working people? Eliminate collective bargaining rights, lobby hard for a flat tax, work against workplace safety and environmental regulations.

Conservatives also want to erode other rights. No same sex marriage. No burning a flag in protest. No real science taught, only dogmatic fables.

Every struggle for equality and freedom and civil rights happens with Conservatives in opposition. Makes me wonder what would motivate someone to think Conservatism is actually something worthy of American ideals.

Not true, conservatives are more American than liberals. Why does the comminist party support the liberals? Because the liberals are for more gov't. control. Idiots.

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Meanwhile, all the Limbaugh water carriers here are making $30K/yr tops, and would DIE for a union job.

Pure jealously.

 

[Charles_Main]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be able to be salvaged.

What educational system are you a product of, besides talk radio?

The school of common sense, unlike the libs, they went to the school of socialist brainwashing.

More like the school of unattainable hopes and dreams. Most libs are well intentioned. They simply can not grasp the fact that their ideas are not realistic or Sustainable.

It is a very easy thing to be a lib, and be all for giving everyone in need, what they need. It is much harder to live in reality and realize we can't.

 

[Stephanie]

You make this sound like news?

Who expected to be highly paid for a teaching certificate?

Sorry, but if teachers wanted higher pay, then THEY SHOULDn"T HAVE BEEN TEACHERS.

Maybe it's me, but I find an average salary in the mid-high 40's pretty good. In more generous, populated states quite a bit higher. My local districts have an average in the high 50's for unit districts, secondary districts are in the mid-60's. Both of these are before extra curricular pay.

And you understand this pay is usually after over 10 years of service.

What the hell is this SERVICE crap. They are not in the military SERVING to protect our country..
If they don't like their pay, they can go do something else, like the MAJORITY of Americans would do.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Meanwhile, all the Limbaugh water carriers here are making $30K/yr tops, and would DIE for a union job.

Pure jealously.

Would rather carry water to Mr. Limbaugh than wine to obamaturd any day.

 

[Charles_Main]

Meanwhile, all the Limbaugh water carriers here are making $30K/yr tops, and would DIE for a union job.

Pure jealously.

Of course it is. Why should they not be. The democrats do everything they do to benefit Union workers, when Union Workers make up only 21% of US workers.

Classic case of a small group of people getting special treatment.

 

[AmericanFirst]

What educational system are you a product of, besides talk radio?

The school of common sense, unlike the libs, they went to the school of socialist brainwashing.

More like the school of unattainable hopes and dreams. Most libs are well intentioned. They simply can not grasp the fact that their ideas are not realistic or Sustainable.

It is a very easy thing to be a lib, and be all for giving everyone in need, what they need. It is much harder to live in reality and realize we can't.

Well said.

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Classic case of a small group of people getting special treatment.

Special treatment? When did being middle class become 'special treatment'?

WTF?