Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[Wicked Jester]

Wicked Jester Wrote:

As opposed to the bill we are now paying for abjectly incompetent teachers who are being protected by abjectly corrupt unions?

I guarantee the bill will be much smaller in the end if this countries children are being educated instead of being warehoused for 6-7 hours a day.

I'll be glad to see my taxpaying dollars go to funding well paying salary's for competent teachers who aren't working under the shield of union corruption.

So it sounds to me like we are in complete agreement - we both are fine with paying teachers what they are worth. How nice to agree.

I have no problem with paying teachers what they are worth. As long as it's competent teachers. Pay 'em by the hour. Turn all public schools into year round schools. Lighten the class sizes by doing so. I don't agree however with paying teachers a set salary when they get so much time off during the year. If they work year round, then a set salary is warranted. If they don't, pay 'em by the hours worked. Let the districts decide on benefits offered, as opposed to being forced by a corrupt union.

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Would rather carry water to Mr. Limbaugh than wine to obamaturd any day.

No kidding.

 

[Annie]

You make this sound like news?

Who expected to be highly paid for a teaching certificate?

Sorry, but if teachers wanted higher pay, then THEY SHOULDn"T HAVE BEEN TEACHERS.

Maybe it's me, but I find an average salary in the mid-high 40's pretty good. In more generous, populated states quite a bit higher. My local districts have an average in the high 50's for unit districts, secondary districts are in the mid-60's. Both of these are before extra curricular pay.

And you understand this pay is usually after over 10 years of service.

No it's not. Check out the links posted earlier.

 

[Charles_Main]

Classic case of a small group of people getting special treatment.

Special treatment? When did being middle class become 'special treatment'?

WTF?

Who said anything about them Being Middle class or not. I am talking about the constant special treatment they get by their Democrat friends in the Government. You buffoon. Or do you only get upset when cooperation's get special treatment from the GOP? lol

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

What the hell is this SERVICE crap. They are not in the military SERVING to protect our country..
If they don't like their pay, they can go do something else, like the MAJORITY of Americans would do.

Looks like someone got tossed from high school.

Teachers are VASTLY underpaid for their level of education and amount of work done. I out earned all those folks by the time I was around 35, working not nearly as hard.

Youse droolers wouldn't really know how hard teachers work for their pathetic pay, now would ya?

 

[The T]

Wicked Jester Wrote:

As opposed to the bill we are now paying for abjectly incompetent teachers who are being protected by abjectly corrupt unions?

I guarantee the bill will be much smaller in the end if this countries children are being educated instead of being warehoused for 6-7 hours a day.

I'll be glad to see my taxpaying dollars go to funding well paying salary's for competent teachers who aren't working under the shield of union corruption.

So it sounds to me like we are in complete agreement - we both are fine with paying teachers what they are worth. How nice to agree.

I have no problem with paying teachers what they are worth. As long as it's competent teachers. Pay 'em by the hour. Turn all public schools into year round schools. Lighten the class sizes by doing so. I don't agree however with paying teachers a set salary when they get so much time off during the year. If they work year round, then a set salary is warranted. If they don't, pay 'em by the hours worked. Let the districts decide on benefits offered, as opposed to being forced by a corrupt union.

Yep. Present system is unsustainable.

Obama sides with his pals today..."
Obama: “Some of what I’ve heard coming out of Wisconsin, where you’re just making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally, seems like more of an assault on unions…”

Of course there is an assault. The Demands of the Unions cannot be met.

 

[Charles_Main]

Wicked Jester Wrote:

As opposed to the bill we are now paying for abjectly incompetent teachers who are being protected by abjectly corrupt unions?

I guarantee the bill will be much smaller in the end if this countries children are being educated instead of being warehoused for 6-7 hours a day.

I'll be glad to see my taxpaying dollars go to funding well paying salary's for competent teachers who aren't working under the shield of union corruption.

So it sounds to me like we are in complete agreement - we both are fine with paying teachers what they are worth. How nice to agree.

I have no problem with paying teachers what they are worth. As long as it's competent teachers. Pay 'em by the hour. Turn all public schools into year round schools. Lighten the class sizes by doing so. I don't agree however with paying teachers a set salary when they get so much time off during the year. If they work year round, then a set salary is warranted. If they don't, pay 'em by the hours worked. Let the districts decide on benefits offered, as opposed to being forced by a corrupt union.

There in lies the problem. The Public Sector Unions have through things like Tenure gotten it to the point that it does not matter how good or bad a teacher is. They will still be teaching. There is almost no accountability, and when ever someone talks about making some, these libs come out of the wood work to claim were attacking the working man.

Teachers are Blue Collar workers, when I think of the working man I think of Construction laborers, and factory workers, things like that. That's the Working man!

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Who said anything about them Being Middle class or not.

I'm saying it now. Without unions the middle class wouldn't even exist, stupid. Go suck some CEO dick and get it over with.

[The wingers on this board are truly ignorant. Unreal]

 

[Gem]

I'm still waiting for you to produce any evidence that without collective bargaining, schools have unqualified teachers.

The fact is, that it makes no difference.

I thought I was pretty clear about the fact that I was discussing potential outcomes of ending collective bargaining...rather than providing evidence of locations where such a thing had already happened. But, for the sake of furthering the conversation...I believe there are several studies that indicate that union teachers receive more prep time, teach smaller classes and receive a higher salary than nonunion workers. (Sorry I don't have links, we just conversing so I didn't come prepared with data...I'll start looking for them if you don't have time to look yourself). This would seem to indicate to me that NON-UNION teachers are likely to make less money, teach more kids, and have less time to prepare their lessons during their work day. Now...is it possible that this will have no effect on the quality of professional who is drawn to the field of public education? Sure...its possible.

 

[Charles_Main]

Wicked Jester Wrote:


So it sounds to me like we are in complete agreement - we both are fine with paying teachers what they are worth. How nice to agree.

I have no problem with paying teachers what they are worth. As long as it's competent teachers. Pay 'em by the hour. Turn all public schools into year round schools. Lighten the class sizes by doing so. I don't agree however with paying teachers a set salary when they get so much time off during the year. If they work year round, then a set salary is warranted. If they don't, pay 'em by the hours worked. Let the districts decide on benefits offered, as opposed to being forced by a corrupt union.

Yep. Present system is unsustainable.

Obama sides with his pals today..."
Obama: “Some of what I’ve heard coming out of Wisconsin, where you’re just making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally, seems like more of an assault on unions…”

Of course there is an assault. The Demands of the Unions cannot be met.

And the problems with that are much worse when it comes to the Public Sector. Because the People Negotiating with the Unions, are not profit driven Companies, they are pencil Pushing Government Bureaucrats Spending other peoples money, and looking to reward constituents.

 

[Charles_Main]

Who said anything about them Being Middle class or not.

I'm saying it now. Without unions the middle class wouldn't even exist, stupid. Go suck some CEO dick and get it over with.

[The wingers on this board are truly ignorant. Unreal]

You are a delusional Idiot my Friend. At their Highest point in the 40's Unions still only accounted for 35% of Workers. Today it is only 20%. Union employees are not all or even most of the middle class.

You fail.

 

[Stephanie]

What the hell is this SERVICE crap. They are not in the military SERVING to protect our country..
If they don't like their pay, they can go do something else, like the MAJORITY of Americans would do.

Looks like someone got tossed from high school.

Teachers are VASTLY underpaid for their level of education and amount of work done. I out earned all those folks by the time I was around 35, working not nearly as hard.

Youse droolers wouldn't really know how hard teachers work for their pathetic pay, now would ya?

Listen you slobbering idiot, I work in a school. The teachers here make a dame good living for only having to work 9months out the year. So ya, some of us DO KNOW how much teachers work and what they get paid. Now go sit in the corner and no video games for you tonight.

 

[Samson]

I'm still waiting for you to produce any evidence that without collective bargaining, schools have unqualified teachers.

The fact is, that it makes no difference.

I thought I was pretty clear about the fact that I was discussing potential outcomes of ending collective bargaining...rather than providing evidence of locations where such a thing had already happened. But, for the sake of furthering the conversation...I believe there are several studies that indicate that union teachers receive more prep time, teach smaller classes and receive a higher salary than nonunion workers. (Sorry I don't have links, we just conversing so I didn't come prepared with data...I'll start looking for them if you don't have time to look yourself). This would seem to indicate to me that NON-UNION teachers are likely to make less money, teach more kids, and have less time to prepare their lessons during their work day. Now...is it possible that this will have no effect on the quality of professional who is drawn to the field of public education? Sure...its possible.

My point is that is is not just possible, but it is the FACT: states that outlaw collective bargaining have MANY of the best schools in the nation.

Therefore your offer of one of the negative outcomes of ending collective bargaining (that then schools would only be filled with unqualified teachers) simply doesn't happen.

Ergo: There are not any negative outcomes of ending collective bargaining for teachers.

 

[shintao]

There's been bad parenting from day one. No doubt about it. It just seems that nowadays it's gotten worse. No doubt due to many factors, too include the nanny state culture that many kids are being raised under. Their parents make a living on welfare so, the kids say fuck it, why work hard in school when I can just milk it and get free shit later on in life, and supplement my tax payer given income by selling drugs or whatnot just like mommy and daddy do?

The teachers blame the parents, and vice versa. Fact is, they've both become a problem. Disban the unions who blatantly protect incompetence and start using existing LAWS and create new LAWS to go after dysfunctional parents. Despite what the ACLU might whine about.

What an incompetent teacher, and who is protecting one?? Sounds like a mythical paradigm your erecting down in the basement. I got to ask you. When you went to school did you have any incompetent teachers?

Further, attempting to disban Unions is UnAmerican and anticapitalist to the core. What do you do for a living? Maybe we should cut your wages or just throw your sorry ass out the door and let an illegal do what you do for a plate of beans a day.

Actually, I had a couple of teachers that weren't that great......One was a drunk, who smelled like cheap scotch all the time. He was fired halfway through the school year. It's nice to know he's still alive and posting under the name of Shintao on this message board

As I suspected, you had no incompentent teachers.

 

[Samson]

What the hell is this SERVICE crap. They are not in the military SERVING to protect our country..
If they don't like their pay, they can go do something else, like the MAJORITY of Americans would do.

Looks like someone got tossed from high school.

Teachers are VASTLY underpaid for their level of education and amount of work done. I out earned all those folks by the time I was around 35, working not nearly as hard.

Youse droolers wouldn't really know how hard teachers work for their pathetic pay, now would ya?

This moron deserves to be on my ignore list unless he can show which other Government employee fresh out of college with a BA in Education makes more

 

[Wicked Jester]

What an incompetent teacher, and who is protecting one?? Sounds like a mythical paradigm your erecting down in the basement. I got to ask you. When you went to school did you have any incompetent teachers?

Further, attempting to disban Unions is UnAmerican and anticapitalist to the core. What do you do for a living? Maybe we should cut your wages or just throw your sorry ass out the door and let an illegal do what you do for a plate of beans a day.

Actually, I had a couple of teachers that weren't that great......One was a drunk, who smelled like cheap scotch all the time. He was fired halfway through the school year. It's nice to know he's still alive and posting under the name of Shintao on this message board

As I suspected, you had no incompentent teachers.

As I suspected, you still fail to add anything intelligent to ANY conversation.

As I suspected, you obviously had MANY incompetent teachers. The proof is provided in EVERY one of your posts.

Thanks for being the poster child for serious education reform. It's much appreciated.....Always helps for us to see firsthand just what effect a lousy education can have on our great countries citizens.

Now, go back to trying to nail that JELLO to the wall...If you had been given a proper education, you just might have been able to figure out that it doesn't work too well.

 

[xotoxi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuri7p_9pm4

I guess I never realized exactly how curvacious Governor Christie really was.

 

[shintao]

I'm still waiting for you to produce any evidence that without collective bargaining, schools have unqualified teachers.

The fact is, that it makes no difference.

I thought I was pretty clear about the fact that I was discussing potential outcomes of ending collective bargaining...rather than providing evidence of locations where such a thing had already happened. But, for the sake of furthering the conversation...I believe there are several studies that indicate that union teachers receive more prep time, teach smaller classes and receive a higher salary than nonunion workers. (Sorry I don't have links, we just conversing so I didn't come prepared with data...I'll start looking for them if you don't have time to look yourself). This would seem to indicate to me that NON-UNION teachers are likely to make less money, teach more kids, and have less time to prepare their lessons during their work day. Now...is it possible that this will have no effect on the quality of professional who is drawn to the field of public education? Sure...its possible.

My point is that is is not just possible, but it is the FACT: states that outlaw collective bargaining have MANY of the best schools in the nation.

Therefore your offer of one of the negative outcomes of ending collective bargaining (that then schools would only be filled with unqualified teachers) simply doesn't happen.

Ergo: There are not any negative outcomes of ending collective bargaining for teachers.

Of course not! Because there is no change made between Union and nonUnion teachers. They just call themselves nonUnion & carry on with Union activities all the way to lobbyist in DC. Instead of paying dues, they pay for Umbrella Insurance like a doctor does.

Legal Protection

Included in the $2,000,000 individual liability insurance policy purchased for each professional member, AAE Legal Protection benefits ensure that members have access to legal counsel at the onset of workplace issues and Defense costs related to liability insurance claims are paid in addition to the $2,000,000 limit. Legal coverage applies to any legal action arising out of duties as an employee of an education entity, including:

civil rights cases
lawsuits against the insured by parents or other teachers
lawsuits against the insured for injunctive relief, declaratory relief, or other non-monetary relief
sexual misconduct (if found not guilty or charges are dropped)
corporal punishment (if found not guilty or charges are dropped)



Employment Rights Coverage

Included in the $2,000,000 individual liability insurance policy purchased for each professional member, AAE Employment Rights Coverage ensures that members have access to legal counsel at the onset of workplace employment issues. Members are able to immediately consult with an attorney if they are threatened with termination, suspension, reassignment, or demotion. AAE Employment Rights Coverage provides or reimburses for an attorney to be involved with consultation and hearings (up to specified limits).

Member Benefits

 

[Twin Fist]

Most libs are well intentioned. They simply can not grasp the fact that their ideas are not realistic or Sustainable.

It is a very easy thing to be a lib, and be all for giving everyone in need, what they need. It is much harder to live in reality and realize we can't.

well said

 

[shintao]

Actually, I had a couple of teachers that weren't that great......One was a drunk, who smelled like cheap scotch all the time. He was fired halfway through the school year. It's nice to know he's still alive and posting under the name of Shintao on this message board

As I suspected, you had no incompentent teachers.

As I suspected, you still fail to add anything intelligent to ANY conversation.

As I suspected, you obviously had MANY incompetent teachers. The proof is provided in EVERY one of your posts.

Thanks for being the poster child for serious education reform. It's much appreciated.....Always helps for us to see firsthand just what effect a lousy education can have on our great countries citizens.

Now, go back to trying to nail that JELLO to the wall...If you had been given a proper education, you just might have been able to figure out that it doesn't work too well.

Geeze, you don't have to get your panties in a wad. I could have just said you are a liar, but I was gracious about it. Apparently the only thing you learned in school besides cheating and unethical immoral behavior, is how to do it better than anyone else. I am surprised you didn't steal this thread while you were frothing at the mouth.