Just a clump of cells

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Let's try one last time. Right to Life, the right to be born, does not exist. You either make it or you don't. Once you are here you have a right, that we have established by the laws of men, to not be killed just for the hell of it but I wouldn't push that either since people often are. If someone killed you that could be murder, manslaughter, state-approved execution, or accidental. Staying alive is not the same thing as being born. The right to be born does not exist, and never has since most conceptions are not born, they don't survive the process. That's life.

So the right to life is equivalent to the right to be born, this right doesn't exist because it's natural for some to die in the womb, and the right not to be killed is a separate and artificial right which humans have set up for their own protection and only applies starting at birth or sometime soon after? I'm just trying to make sure I understand your argument here.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

So the right to life is equivalent to the right to be born... .

It's a twisted way to phrase it, but yes, the right to life is INALIENABLE... .

Now you can rationalize that because biological processes fail... and pre-born children often succumb to fatal flaws common to their specific prenatal circumstances, THIS no more provides a valid moral justification to artificially flaw their circumstances, by sucking them into a blender...

We KNOW this, because 'claiming' that disease also kills human being post-natal, that you're entitled to kill anyone who represents an inconvenience to you.

And just in case ya missed that part of natural law... You're NOT entitled to do kill innocent people, because disease kills other innocent people.

You need to understand that... .

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Let's try one last time. Right to Life, the right to be born, does not exist. You either make it or you don't. Once you are here you have a right, that we have established by the laws of men, to not be killed just for the hell of it but I wouldn't push that either since people often are. If someone killed you that could be murder, manslaughter, state-approved execution, or accidental. Staying alive is not the same thing as being born. The right to be born does not exist, and never has since most conceptions are not born, they don't survive the process. That's life.

So the right to life is equivalent to the right to be born, this right doesn't exist because it's natural for some to die in the womb, and the right not to be killed is a separate and artificial right which humans have set up for their own protection and only applies starting at birth or sometime soon after? I'm just trying to make sure I understand your argument here.

Close enough for government work.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think that God has already given his opinion on abortion. If God is opposed to abortion, why do women miscarry?

If you believe that God created us, then God created women to have miscarriages. If every fetus was sacred, they would all be born. 1/3 of all pregnancies wouldn't spontaneously abort.

God gave women the option. Conservatives would thwart that right and take away free will.

I always love this argument. "People die, so how can God possibly object to killing them?"
I would be ashamed to say something that ridiculous in public, but clearly I've set my bar higher than yours.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You don't think God believes in abortion. Well that's definitive.

But yet he gave women the ability to end a pregnancy. There are prohibitions in the bible against lying, stealing, even coveting another's property, and adultery. Not one word against ending your pregnancy.

God discards 1/3 of all "unborn children" via miscarriage. You keep trying to claim abortion is wrong on moral and ethical grounds but whose morality? It's certainly doesn't violate anything that's in the Bible.

I'm not against you choosing not to have an abortion. You are entitled to your own beliefs. I am opposed to you inflicting your wrong-headed misogyny on the rest of us.

I have the ABILITY to kill you. In fact, it's very easy. God made humans to be incredibly fragile. Do you think that means he WANTS me to do it? Is your logic really that everything that is possible is therefore desired?

 

[JoeB131]

I always love this argument. "People die, so how can God possibly object to killing them?"
I would be ashamed to say something that ridiculous in public, but clearly I've set my bar higher than yours.

God kills a shitload of people in the bible, so I'm not sure why he's so against killing, exactly.

 

[Dragonlady]

I think that God has already given his opinion on abortion. If God is opposed to abortion, why do women miscarry?

If you believe that God created us, then God created women to have miscarriages. If every fetus was sacred, they would all be born. 1/3 of all pregnancies wouldn't spontaneously abort.

God gave women the option. Conservatives would thwart that right and take away free will.

I always love this argument. "People die, so how can God possibly object to killing them?"
I would be ashamed to say something that ridiculous in public, but clearly I've set my bar higher than yours.

Apparently that high bar you set for yourself includes lying and judging others.

I made no such argument. I have said that In creating humans, He made pregnancy optional. In human history, there are periods of time when having a child would make a precarious situation, extremely dangerous - war, famine, plague, human migration. There is no creature more fragile than a human infant, or in need of more attention.

Women chose abortion for financial reasons. Higher minimum wages would save many women from having to make the choice you decry. Maternity and family leave too. Subsidized day care would enable poor women to get off healthcare.

And how about sex education that isn't focussed on abstinence cause that shit is giving the U.S. the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the first world.

You want to make abortion unnecessary? You could cut you national abortion rate by more than 1/3 if you lived your "family values" platform.

Conservatives think that women should stay home with their infants, unless the woman is poor. In which case, she'll should leave her baby in the care of others, and go back to work as soon as possible.

Induced Abortion in the United States

42% of women getting abortions are living below the U.S. poverty line. 62% cite responsibilities to others. 50% of the women who have abortions were using birth control when they got pregnant. 52% are married or in a committed relationship

Only 18% of those who obtain abortions are teenagers but 11% are 18 or 19, only 7% are 17 or younger.

So the image of the young party girl, casually disposing of the evidence of her promiscuity is just another of your right wing myths.

Women are disposing of the evidence of living in poverty in the US. I

 

[Vigilante]

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".

 

[Dragonlady]

A law passed by a Conservative Congress isn't even valid outside the U.S. It is NOT the Word of God.

 

[Vigilante]

A law passed by a Conservative Congress isn't even valid outside the U.S. It is NOT the Word of God.

Why bring GOD into this, abortion is unethical, immoral, unprincipled, and murder...PERIOD!

 

[Dragonlady]

In your opinion. So don't have an abortion.

In my country, abortion is a matter between a woman and her doctor.

The number of children I choose the bear is none of YOUR business. If God has an issue with a woman's choices, He'll deal with it.

 

[Vigilante]

In your opinion. So don't have an abortion.

In my country, abortion is a matter between a woman and her doctor.

The number of children I choose the bear is none of YOUR business. If God has an issue with a woman's choices, He'll deal with it.

I have no problem debating a baby killer! Why do you keep putting GOD in this? It's simply a matter of ones moral compass...yours is broken!

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

A law passed by a Conservative Congress isn't even valid outside the U.S. It is NOT the Word of God.

Neither is the word of the Supreme Court.

 

[JoeB131]

A law passed by a Conservative Congress isn't even valid outside the U.S. It is NOT the Word of God.

Neither is the word of the Supreme Court.

I quite agree. The Supreme Court only recognized what was actually going on.

Here's the dirty little secret about Roe v. Wade. There was not a sudden spike in abortions when they became legal. The birth rate did not drop in 1973. It didn't drop in 1974. It started going up again in 1975.

Women were having perfectly safe abortions in their doctors' offices, and the people just pretty much ignored the abortion laws that were on the books at that point. They became no like the murder laws, but like the prostitution laws. Meh, we only enforce them once in a while.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I'm going to be flatly blunt. The pro-Abortion crowd is dead wrong about human biology. A human is a human inside the womb and out. This video is proof of such. This is the unborn child of a French couple who watch in amazement at the vigorous movement of the baby in the womb. To say the child isn't viable while in the womb is wrong, simply put. To say the child is not a real person until after birth is also wrong, this one seems real enough to me.

God could come down and tell abortionists that abortion is wrong and those for abortion would still be for abortion.

They don't care about facts. They want to believe the lies about abortion because abortion is part of the liberal religion.

It's as simple as that.

 

[JoeB131]

God could come down and tell abortionists that abortion is wrong and those for abortion would still be for abortion.

They don't care about facts. They want to believe the lies about abortion because abortion is part of the liberal religion.

It's as simple as that.

No, women will still have abortions because an unplanned pregnancy can really **** up your life.

You see, you nuts want to blame the abortionists, but they aren't driving around the vans kidnapping women off the street.

Women are looking them up, making appointments, going to their offices (passing up the assholes with pictures of medical waste on them) getting naked, spreading their legs and letting the "Problem" get sucked out of their bodies. then they go home and get on with their lives.

And there's nothing YOU or your Imaginary Sky Pixie can do about it.

 

[teapartysamurai]

God could come down and tell abortionists that abortion is wrong and those for abortion would still be for abortion.

They don't care about facts. They want to believe the lies about abortion because abortion is part of the liberal religion.

It's as simple as that.

No, women will still have abortions because an unplanned pregnancy can really **** up your life.

You see, you nuts want to blame the abortionists, but they aren't driving around the vans kidnapping women off the street.

Women are looking them up, making appointments, going to their offices (passing up the assholes with pictures of medical waste on them) getting naked, spreading their legs and letting the "Problem" get sucked out of their bodies. then they go home and get on with their lives.

And there's nothing YOU or your Imaginary Sky Pixie can do about it.

See what I mean?

They don't care if it is proven they are killing a human life (which they are).

It's about the convenience and the religion of liberalism.

 

[JoeB131]

See what I mean?

They don't care if it is proven they are killing a human life (which they are).

It's about the convenience and the religion of liberalism.

Human lives are lost every day to famine, disease and lack of clean water. And **** one is not given by you religious assholes.

I would LOVE to see a world with less abortions. We just don't get their by screaming about God to people.

We get there by better sex education, better protections for women's jobs, better health care coverage.

That's how we get there. the Europeans have already done it.

 

[teapartysamurai]

See what I mean?

They don't care if it is proven they are killing a human life (which they are).

It's about the convenience and the religion of liberalism.

Human lives are lost every day to famine, disease and lack of clean water. And **** one is not given by you religious assholes.

I would LOVE to see a world with less abortions. We just don't get their by screaming about God to people.

We get there by better sex education, better protections for women's jobs, better health care coverage.

That's how we get there. the Europeans have already done it.

So, you justify deliberately killing human beings because disease kills other human beings?

That's like a serial killer justifying his rampage because the swine flue claimed people, too!

Sorry, that just not going to work.

And give me a break. Sex education? Who doesn't know screwing makes babies???

And the same people claiming we need better jobs for people vote for Democrats who are behind the bad job numbers we have now.

Give me a break!

 

[Dragonlady]

No you idiot. It's about poverty and the needs of their already living families.

I keep telling you what needs to happen in order to reduce the number of abortions and not one of you has responded to those ideas.

You say you don't want babies to die, well then raise the minimum wage. Institute mandated maternity leave. Eliminate copays on pre and post natal medical care. Guarantee a woman won't lose her job when she gets pregnant.

Make it possible for a woman to have a baby.

Stop screaming baby killers. Your conservative labour policies are the reason so many women have abortions.