John McCain, War Hero

DGS49

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Apr 12, 2012
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John McCain’s Vietnam service basically consisted of flying a number of bombing missions over Vietnam and Cambodia. While on these missions, he was vulnerable to enemy fire, and knowingly, voluntarily exposed himself to this danger – the danger of death, serious injury, and/or capture by the enemy. Since it was done in service of his country, this is definitional “heroism.” Very few such pilots – a percent or two – actually experienced being shot down or captured, and this statistical probability of success undoubtedly gave McCain and his fellow pilots comfort during the long months of “combat.”



At the time, he was living in a comfortable, air-conditioned BOQ (small apartment), living on a base that had a library, movie theater, cable TV (one or two channels), a swimming pool, a recreational gym, and an officer’s club, of which McCain was a member by virtue of his rank. He made enough money (most of which was income-tax-free) to enjoy all of this, while sending most of his pay home to his wife.



After being shot down and captured alive, McCain experienced unspeakable treatment, torture, deprivation, and permanent injuries. Notably, when his captors wanted to release him “early” as a phony humanitarian gesture, he refused to be released ahead of others who had been imprisoned longer. One can only imagine how difficult it was to make this gesture. On the other hand, he did “break down” under torture and give the enemy certain useful information, later admitting that he reached his breaking point and could resist no longer. Military authorities concluded that he should not be court martialed under the specific circumstances of his case. No shame involved.



When one speaks of a “Vietnam War Hero,” however, a rather different picture comes to mind. We picture a “Grunt,” who lives in relatively horrible conditions in a tent in the swamps of the Delta. Most of his meals are OK, but often he subsists on C-Rations or MRE’s. He often goes long periods without bathing, shaving, or having a civilized bowel movement. He goes out daily on missions that could leave him dead, dismembered, or seriously injured at literally any time – this in addition to being subject to various tropical diseases, mainly malaria (which is incurable). He lives in insufferable tropical heat and humidity for almost all of his time in country, enduring mosquitoes and other biting insects, leeches, ticks, and so on, experiencing air conditioning only when going back to base-base camp. Often these soldier were wounded, patched up, and returned to the battlefield without complaint (well…with constant complaints, but you get the idea). This was particularly true of Marines, for whom multiple deployments were common, especially given their normal 4-year enlistment. Again, this is more or less the picture one frames of a Vietnam War Hero, and literally hundreds of thousands of American men fit that description, pretty much.



Last year, the Man Who Would Be President, a victim of Blitherer’s Disease if ever there was one, opined when speaking of Senator McCain, that he was only exalted as a “hero” only because he got caught. The actual quote was,



He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”



This was the most ill-advised of a mountain of ill-advised statements that Trump made during the campaign. But as with most of what he says, there is a germ of reality in it. Had Lt. McCain not “lost the lottery” in Vietnam, he would have finished out his service, collected a few ribbons, and continued his military career in relative obscurity. Because despite his military genes, he was apparently not much of an exemplary officer (would never have made Admiral, as his father did), and dropped out to go into politics. He was a hero mainly because he got shot down.



Sorry. It’s true.
 
Even though I'm not happy with his political performance, I do give McCain credit for killing communists and enduring his captivity.
 
I'm not bad - mouthing McCain. I'm just putting his heroism (which I don't deny) in perspective, and responding to the accusation that Trump insulted him. The truth is no insult.
 
Sorry. It’s true.


Damn right it's true.

I wish McCain all the best in his cancer fight, but I hated him as a politician. Can't say one time I ever heard him say anything that my response was: "Atta Boy, John! Right on the mark!" To me he exemplified everything that was wrong with the GOP, a RINO, always opposing what I felt the GOP needed to do. Ran a terrible milquetoast campaign that gave the opening for Obama into the White House! And Obama was a nobody Do-Nothing Senator with only a few years.

McCain was about as interesting to listen to as a box of old shoes. Stale, wooden, like too many in the GOP. I swear I want to hook half of them up to 220VAC to put some life in them! Ironic that his final contribution to the GOP will be to further hose their chances of getting anything passed, as now they are one vote fewer. And he was one of the ones that at least seemed willing to vote yes. Why couldn't it have been Rand Paul that got hit in the head with an errant drone?

I don't wish him ill, but I can only hope that whomever replaces him is another Republican and a REAL conservative. I like real, unabashed conservatives that don't feel they need to apologize for their views. McCain was not one of them. They say Trump says a lot of things that are ill-advised, but numerous times McCain came out and publicly spoke against his own GOP candidate, later President Trump, things that he should have kept behind closed doors if he was really interested in helping his party win.

Thanks for the service John, but don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
John McCain’s Vietnam service basically consisted of flying a number of bombing missions over Vietnam and Cambodia. While on these missions, he was vulnerable to enemy fire, and knowingly, voluntarily exposed himself to this danger – the danger of death, serious injury, and/or capture by the enemy. Since it was done in service of his country, this is definitional “heroism.” Very few such pilots – a percent or two – actually experienced being shot down or captured, and this statistical probability of success undoubtedly gave McCain and his fellow pilots comfort during the long months of “combat.”



At the time, he was living in a comfortable, air-conditioned BOQ (small apartment), living on a base that had a library, movie theater, cable TV (one or two channels), a swimming pool, a recreational gym, and an officer’s club, of which McCain was a member by virtue of his rank. He made enough money (most of which was income-tax-free) to enjoy all of this, while sending most of his pay home to his wife.



After being shot down and captured alive, McCain experienced unspeakable treatment, torture, deprivation, and permanent injuries. Notably, when his captors wanted to release him “early” as a phony humanitarian gesture, he refused to be released ahead of others who had been imprisoned longer. One can only imagine how difficult it was to make this gesture. On the other hand, he did “break down” under torture and give the enemy certain useful information, later admitting that he reached his breaking point and could resist no longer. Military authorities concluded that he should not be court martialed under the specific circumstances of his case. No shame involved.



When one speaks of a “Vietnam War Hero,” however, a rather different picture comes to mind. We picture a “Grunt,” who lives in relatively horrible conditions in a tent in the swamps of the Delta. Most of his meals are OK, but often he subsists on C-Rations or MRE’s. He often goes long periods without bathing, shaving, or having a civilized bowel movement. He goes out daily on missions that could leave him dead, dismembered, or seriously injured at literally any time – this in addition to being subject to various tropical diseases, mainly malaria (which is incurable). He lives in insufferable tropical heat and humidity for almost all of his time in country, enduring mosquitoes and other biting insects, leeches, ticks, and so on, experiencing air conditioning only when going back to base-base camp. Often these soldier were wounded, patched up, and returned to the battlefield without complaint (well…with constant complaints, but you get the idea). This was particularly true of Marines, for whom multiple deployments were common, especially given their normal 4-year enlistment. Again, this is more or less the picture one frames of a Vietnam War Hero, and literally hundreds of thousands of American men fit that description, pretty much.



Last year, the Man Who Would Be President, a victim of Blitherer’s Disease if ever there was one, opined when speaking of Senator McCain, that he was only exalted as a “hero” only because he got caught. The actual quote was,



He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”



This was the most ill-advised of a mountain of ill-advised statements that Trump made during the campaign. But as with most of what he says, there is a germ of reality in it. Had Lt. McCain not “lost the lottery” in Vietnam, he would have finished out his service, collected a few ribbons, and continued his military career in relative obscurity. Because despite his military genes, he was apparently not much of an exemplary officer (would never have made Admiral, as his father did), and dropped out to go into politics. He was a hero mainly because he got shot down.



Sorry. It’s true.

Did you serve in or during Vietnam?
 
I'm not bad - mouthing McCain. I'm just putting his heroism (which I don't deny) in perspective, and responding to the accusation that Trump insulted him. The truth is no insult.

I never took it as an insult! You have to pay attention to how Trump thinks and speaks. All Trump really meant is that he likes people to succeed. He thinks in a purely business sense and he was using McCain's capture as an example of an undesired outcome. No one wants captured in war and he doesn't like people who have undesired outcomes in their business goals. And of course the media jumped right on it as not only a slam against McCain (I really don't think he meant anything personal about it and he later said as much), but a slam against all vets, but you are right, in Trump's eyes, he was no Audie Murphy, no real war "hero," his main claim to fame was his being a POW who endured the hardship, could have made it easier on himself but chose not to, and lived to tell others about it.
 
John McCain’s Vietnam service basically consisted of flying a number of bombing missions over Vietnam and Cambodia. While on these missions, he was vulnerable to enemy fire, and knowingly, voluntarily exposed himself to this danger – the danger of death, serious injury, and/or capture by the enemy. Since it was done in service of his country, this is definitional “heroism.” Very few such pilots – a percent or two – actually experienced being shot down or captured, and this statistical probability of success undoubtedly gave McCain and his fellow pilots comfort during the long months of “combat.”



At the time, he was living in a comfortable, air-conditioned BOQ (small apartment), living on a base that had a library, movie theater, cable TV (one or two channels), a swimming pool, a recreational gym, and an officer’s club, of which McCain was a member by virtue of his rank. He made enough money (most of which was income-tax-free) to enjoy all of this, while sending most of his pay home to his wife.



After being shot down and captured alive, McCain experienced unspeakable treatment, torture, deprivation, and permanent injuries. Notably, when his captors wanted to release him “early” as a phony humanitarian gesture, he refused to be released ahead of others who had been imprisoned longer. One can only imagine how difficult it was to make this gesture. On the other hand, he did “break down” under torture and give the enemy certain useful information, later admitting that he reached his breaking point and could resist no longer. Military authorities concluded that he should not be court martialed under the specific circumstances of his case. No shame involved.



When one speaks of a “Vietnam War Hero,” however, a rather different picture comes to mind. We picture a “Grunt,” who lives in relatively horrible conditions in a tent in the swamps of the Delta. Most of his meals are OK, but often he subsists on C-Rations or MRE’s. He often goes long periods without bathing, shaving, or having a civilized bowel movement. He goes out daily on missions that could leave him dead, dismembered, or seriously injured at literally any time – this in addition to being subject to various tropical diseases, mainly malaria (which is incurable). He lives in insufferable tropical heat and humidity for almost all of his time in country, enduring mosquitoes and other biting insects, leeches, ticks, and so on, experiencing air conditioning only when going back to base-base camp. Often these soldier were wounded, patched up, and returned to the battlefield without complaint (well…with constant complaints, but you get the idea). This was particularly true of Marines, for whom multiple deployments were common, especially given their normal 4-year enlistment. Again, this is more or less the picture one frames of a Vietnam War Hero, and literally hundreds of thousands of American men fit that description, pretty much.



Last year, the Man Who Would Be President, a victim of Blitherer’s Disease if ever there was one, opined when speaking of Senator McCain, that he was only exalted as a “hero” only because he got caught. The actual quote was,



He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”



This was the most ill-advised of a mountain of ill-advised statements that Trump made during the campaign. But as with most of what he says, there is a germ of reality in it. Had Lt. McCain not “lost the lottery” in Vietnam, he would have finished out his service, collected a few ribbons, and continued his military career in relative obscurity. Because despite his military genes, he was apparently not much of an exemplary officer (would never have made Admiral, as his father did), and dropped out to go into politics. He was a hero mainly because he got shot down.



Sorry. It’s true.

At the time he was shot down, he was assigned to a squadron on the USS Oriskany where basically everything you posted shown in the red text was not available.

I am willing to bet you never served on an aircraft carrier.

If he had been in the Air Force, that might have been true.
 
Bullshit. Large ships were air conditioned (since WW2), and had libraries, movies, and decent, if crowded, staterooms for officers. It was a far cry from a Marine living in a tent!
 
I give him credit for volunteering to bomb North Vietnam, knowing they would be firing Missiles at him.
------------------------------------------------------- not me , he was just doing his job and got paid for it . He was simply building a resume , in my opinion Scamp !!
 
I give him credit for volunteering to bomb North Vietnam, knowing they would be firing Missiles at him.
------------------------------------------------------- not me , he was just doing his job and got paid for it . He was simply building a resume , in my opinion Scamp !!

Well then You would say the same thing about every combat fighter/ bomber pilot. Right?
 
If Audie Murphy were running against Trump last year Trump would have said "he only captured one German company of soldiers by himself, he's not a hero. I like people that captured two companies."

It is the mindset of the lowest of lowlifes to disparage anything John McCain did in the war. And he gets this shit from his own party?
 
John McCain’s Vietnam service basically consisted of flying a number of bombing missions over Vietnam and Cambodia. While on these missions, he was vulnerable to enemy fire, and knowingly, voluntarily exposed himself to this danger – the danger of death, serious injury, and/or capture by the enemy. Since it was done in service of his country, this is definitional “heroism.” Very few such pilots – a percent or two – actually experienced being shot down or captured, and this statistical probability of success undoubtedly gave McCain and his fellow pilots comfort during the long months of “combat.”



At the time, he was living in a comfortable, air-conditioned BOQ (small apartment), living on a base that had a library, movie theater, cable TV (one or two channels), a swimming pool, a recreational gym, and an officer’s club, of which McCain was a member by virtue of his rank. He made enough money (most of which was income-tax-free) to enjoy all of this, while sending most of his pay home to his wife.



After being shot down and captured alive, McCain experienced unspeakable treatment, torture, deprivation, and permanent injuries. Notably, when his captors wanted to release him “early” as a phony humanitarian gesture, he refused to be released ahead of others who had been imprisoned longer. One can only imagine how difficult it was to make this gesture. On the other hand, he did “break down” under torture and give the enemy certain useful information, later admitting that he reached his breaking point and could resist no longer. Military authorities concluded that he should not be court martialed under the specific circumstances of his case. No shame involved.



When one speaks of a “Vietnam War Hero,” however, a rather different picture comes to mind. We picture a “Grunt,” who lives in relatively horrible conditions in a tent in the swamps of the Delta. Most of his meals are OK, but often he subsists on C-Rations or MRE’s. He often goes long periods without bathing, shaving, or having a civilized bowel movement. He goes out daily on missions that could leave him dead, dismembered, or seriously injured at literally any time – this in addition to being subject to various tropical diseases, mainly malaria (which is incurable). He lives in insufferable tropical heat and humidity for almost all of his time in country, enduring mosquitoes and other biting insects, leeches, ticks, and so on, experiencing air conditioning only when going back to base-base camp. Often these soldier were wounded, patched up, and returned to the battlefield without complaint (well…with constant complaints, but you get the idea). This was particularly true of Marines, for whom multiple deployments were common, especially given their normal 4-year enlistment. Again, this is more or less the picture one frames of a Vietnam War Hero, and literally hundreds of thousands of American men fit that description, pretty much.



Last year, the Man Who Would Be President, a victim of Blitherer’s Disease if ever there was one, opined when speaking of Senator McCain, that he was only exalted as a “hero” only because he got caught. The actual quote was,



He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”



This was the most ill-advised of a mountain of ill-advised statements that Trump made during the campaign. But as with most of what he says, there is a germ of reality in it. Had Lt. McCain not “lost the lottery” in Vietnam, he would have finished out his service, collected a few ribbons, and continued his military career in relative obscurity. Because despite his military genes, he was apparently not much of an exemplary officer (would never have made Admiral, as his father did), and dropped out to go into politics. He was a hero mainly because he got shot down.



Sorry. It’s true.
McCain is a hero.....period

Fighting for your country makes you a hero
Flying missions over enemy territory and being a target for missiles makes you a hero
Being captured and enduring five years of torture for your country, makes you a hero
 
If Audie Murphy were running against Trump last year Trump would have said "he only captured one German company of soldiers by himself, he's not a hero. I like people that captured two companies."

It is the mindset of the lowest of lowlifes to disparage anything John McCain did in the war. And he gets this shit from his own party?


A). You haven't a clue what Trump would say and don't pretend you are a mind reader. There are a hundred instances in the past 6 months where Trump has lavished praise on various military totally in contrast to what you claim, so your statement is just more anti-Trump bullshit.

B). As said earlier, Trump wasn't disparaging McCain, merely trying to make an analogy to his business mindset that he likes to win, he is driven by success, both in himself and others, but the statement was taken literally by the media wishing to beat Trump over the head by it. In a subsequent interview in the days following, he was asked about his comments whether they were meant as an attack against McCain personally, his service, and Trump was very clear that it wasn't intended that way.
 
sure , they were just doing their job Scamp .---------------- But Building the resume was why mkcain volunteered for the flights , imo . I think that 'mkcain' comes from a military / political family so he was willing to take a calculated risk to build his resume that could be used later on in politics . When he was shot down its just that mkcain lost his Calculated risk Scamp . [imo]
 

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