Jesus died for our sins......

[Dhara]

That doesn't make sense to me. We make our own "sins", we have to take responsibility for them. We can't expect someone else to purify them.

How much sense does it make that one man died over two thousand years ago from crucifixion and somehow that purifies anyone's sin now?

Surely, crucifixion is a tortorous way to die, AND many more people have died worse ways than crucifixion since then.

Are we to believe that Hitler was saved?

The entire story is incoherent.

God made mankind imperfect and inherently vulnerable to sin. Living a sinless life is impossible, so hell becomes unavoidable. That is, God creates people knowing for certain that they’re going to deserve eternity in hell when they die. Why create people that he knew would be destined for eternal torment?

But don’t worry—God sacrificed Jesus, one of the persons of God (whatever that means), so mankind could go to heaven instead.

So God sacrificed himself to himself so we could bypass a rule that God made himself and that God deliberately designed us to never be able to meet? I can’t even understand that; I certainly feel no need to praise God for something so nonsensical.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crosse...asons-the-crucifixion-story-makes-no-sense-2/

 

[BreezeWood]

.
the real culprits are who wrote the story and those who have used it over the centuries to oppress the truth, including the honorable way Jesus chose in ending his life and why ...

.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

That doesn't make sense to me. We make our own "sins", we have to take responsibility for them. We can't expect someone else to purify them.

How much sense does it make that one man died over two thousand years ago from crucifixion and somehow that purifies anyone's sin now?

Surely, crucifixion is a tortorous way to die, AND many more people have died worse ways than crucifixion since then.

Are we to believe that Hitler was saved?

The entire story is incoherent.

Not after you actually read it.

 

[Mudda]

Jesus died so that we could give each other presents at Christmas. The sin thing was a throw in.

 

[Pete7469]

You have to WANT to understand.

Spiritual fulfillment doesn't come through reading a book, and them getting some warm fuzzy feeling followed by visions. God isn't going to prove Himself to you, it's the other way around.

 

[Boss]

That doesn't make sense to me. We make our own "sins", we have to take responsibility for them. We can't expect someone else to purify them.

How much sense does it make that one man died over two thousand years ago from crucifixion and somehow that purifies anyone's sin now?

Surely, crucifixion is a tortorous way to die, AND many more people have died worse ways than crucifixion since then.

Are we to believe that Hitler was saved?

The entire story is incoherent.

God made mankind imperfect and inherently vulnerable to sin. Living a sinless life is impossible, so hell becomes unavoidable. That is, God creates people knowing for certain that they’re going to deserve eternity in hell when they die. Why create people that he knew would be destined for eternal torment?

But don’t worry—God sacrificed Jesus, one of the persons of God (whatever that means), so mankind could go to heaven instead.

So God sacrificed himself to himself so we could bypass a rule that God made himself and that God deliberately designed us to never be able to meet? I can’t even understand that; I certainly feel no need to praise God for something so nonsensical.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crosse...asons-the-crucifixion-story-makes-no-sense-2/

To simply say "Jesus died for our sins" is a bit of a misnomer. This seems to be where you are getting confused and I agree, it does not make sense. I am not a Christian but I know a good deal about the faith and the Bible. To more correctly context: Jesus died so that you can be forgiven for sin.

You see, before Jesus died on the cross, you could not necessarily be forgiven for your sins. God held you accountable and it didn't matter how repentant you were or how much you were sorry for your transgressions. There were certain 'lesser' sins that could be forgiven through sacrifice. So every so often, a lamb was sacrificed so that your lesser sins could be absolved in the eyes of God. This didn't cover greater sins like forsaking God or murdering your neighbor. There was no repentance for those sins, you were just doomed to hell for eternity and it was the moral obligation of good Christians to send you there.

Jesus changed all that. His teachings were that all sins are the same, there is no greater or lesser ones, but all sins can be forgiven through repentance. Unconditional love and forgiveness was the key and this was to replace the need for ritual sacrifice. His crucifixion was the ultimate sacrifice, it forever gifts to mankind the ability to be forgiven for sin in the eyes of God.

In paraphrase, it goes something like this... God loved the world so much that he sent his only son to die on the cross so that, through belief in him, you can obtain everlasting life in heaven.

My main argument against Christianity has always been... God seems to be a bit conflicted in his views to be omniscient and omnipotent. First he wants us killing lambs then we are to believe in his son... why not just create us so that we don't sin? Seems that would have been the more brilliant solution if you were God.

 

[Dhara]

That doesn't make sense to me. We make our own "sins", we have to take responsibility for them. We can't expect someone else to purify them.

How much sense does it make that one man died over two thousand years ago from crucifixion and somehow that purifies anyone's sin now?

Surely, crucifixion is a tortorous way to die, AND many more people have died worse ways than crucifixion since then.

Are we to believe that Hitler was saved?

The entire story is incoherent.

Not after you actually read it.

I've read it throughout my life. It still doesn't make sense.

 

[Dhara]

You have to WANT to understand.

Spiritual fulfillment doesn't come through reading a book, and them getting some warm fuzzy feeling followed by visions. God isn't going to prove Himself to you, it's the other way around.

You have to WANT to understand? It makes no sense. There is no God.

 

[Dhara]

That doesn't make sense to me. We make our own "sins", we have to take responsibility for them. We can't expect someone else to purify them.

How much sense does it make that one man died over two thousand years ago from crucifixion and somehow that purifies anyone's sin now?

Surely, crucifixion is a tortorous way to die, AND many more people have died worse ways than crucifixion since then.

Are we to believe that Hitler was saved?

The entire story is incoherent.

God made mankind imperfect and inherently vulnerable to sin. Living a sinless life is impossible, so hell becomes unavoidable. That is, God creates people knowing for certain that they’re going to deserve eternity in hell when they die. Why create people that he knew would be destined for eternal torment?

But don’t worry—God sacrificed Jesus, one of the persons of God (whatever that means), so mankind could go to heaven instead.

So God sacrificed himself to himself so we could bypass a rule that God made himself and that God deliberately designed us to never be able to meet? I can’t even understand that; I certainly feel no need to praise God for something so nonsensical.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crosse...asons-the-crucifixion-story-makes-no-sense-2/

To simply say "Jesus died for our sins" is a bit of a misnomer. This seems to be where you are getting confused and I agree, it does not make sense. I am not a Christian but I know a good deal about the faith and the Bible. To more correctly context: Jesus died so that you can be forgiven for sin.

You see, before Jesus died on the cross, you could not necessarily be forgiven for your sins. God held you accountable and it didn't matter how repentant you were or how much you were sorry for your transgressions. There were certain 'lesser' sins that could be forgiven through sacrifice. So every so often, a lamb was sacrificed so that your lesser sins could be absolved in the eyes of God. This didn't cover greater sins like forsaking God or murdering your neighbor. There was no repentance for those sins, you were just doomed to hell for eternity and it was the moral obligation of good Christians to send you there.

Jesus changed all that. His teachings were that all sins are the same, there is no greater or lesser ones, but all sins can be forgiven through repentance. Unconditional love and forgiveness was the key and this was to replace the need for ritual sacrifice. His crucifixion was the ultimate sacrifice, it forever gifts to mankind the ability to be forgiven for sin in the eyes of God.

In paraphrase, it goes something like this... God loved the world so much that he sent his only son to die on the cross so that, through belief in him, you can obtain everlasting life in heaven.

My main argument against Christianity has always been... God seems to be a bit conflicted in his views to be omniscient and omnipotent. First he wants us killing lambs then we are to believe in his son... why not just create us so that we don't sin? Seems that would have been the more brilliant solution if you were God.

IMO, you have to forgive yourself for your imperfections. You have to ask other people to forgive you when you've hurt them. No God is necessary in the equation. You have to clean up your own act.

Someone else dying on a cross doesn't erase the crime of murder. Actions have consequences.

As for spiritual fulfillment, God isn't necessary. Plenty of non-theists are spiritually fulfilled. I count myself among them.

 

[Pete7469]

You have to WANT to understand? It makes no sense. There is no God.

You don't want to believe it.

Makes no difference to me.

 

[Dhara]

You have to WANT to understand? It makes no sense. There is no God.

You don't want to believe it.

Makes no difference to me.

That's right. Spiritual fulfillment isn't related to the fictional "God" at all. It comes from cultivating positive qualities. God isn't necessary for that.

It makes no difference to me if you believe in God. Some do.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The entire basis of the story is full of logic fails, which renders the concept of Christ dying for our sins to be nonsense. You really don't even have to go any further than the twisted reasoning behind the Christians' tortuous logic that the father, the son, and the holy Ghost are really all one, (just to separate themselves from multi diets) before you run into complete roadblocks.

 

[Dhara]

It's funny. Some people actually think all a serial murder has to do in order to get admitted to "heaven" is believe in God. Tell me why anyone thinks that makes sense.

 

[jillian]

.
the real culprits are who wrote the story and those who have used it over the centuries to oppress the truth, including the honorable way Jesus chose in ending his life and why ...

.

chose to die?

i'm pretty sure the romans made that choice for him.

 

[Dhara]

The entire basis of the story is full of logic fails, which renders the concept of Christ dying for our sins to be nonsense. You really don't even have to go any further than the twisted reasoning behind the Christians' tortuous logic that the father, the son, and the holy Ghost are really all one, (just to separate themselves from multi diets) before you run into complete roadblocks.

Here is what does make sense to me. Awareness itself.

 

[OZman]

The sacrifice of animals and humans has always been a part of man's superstitious belief, Christianity has continued the erroneous tradition.

 

[Dhara]

Sacrificing selfishness is a path to peace. Caring for others as well as yourself. Spiritual fulfillment doesn't require a belief in God.

One can see goodness in the world and pay attention to that.

 

[Boss]

IMO, you have to forgive yourself for your imperfections. You have to ask other people to forgive you when you've hurt them. No God is necessary in the equation. You have to clean up your own act.

Someone else dying on a cross doesn't erase the crime of murder. Actions have consequences.

As for spiritual fulfillment, God isn't necessary. Plenty of non-theists are spiritually fulfilled. I count myself among them.

Well, I am a Spiritualist and my "God" is Spiritual Nature. I believe we are compelled as humans to follow a "righteous" path toward goodness and away from evil. There is no need for a Deity to do that but there is a need to understand the consequences of our actions. You can say "clean up our own act" but people are lazy... they don't like cleaning up unless there is some sort of incentive or punishment involved. If there is no repercussion for your actions then you have no moral foundation other than whatever you define that to be for yourself. It's like saying you're going on a diet but you plan to eat whatever you please and as much as you want.... not much of a diet, is it?

Humans, left to their own minds, have a way of justifying their actions... It doesn't matter that I cheated on my wife because I was drunk and depressed and she was being a bitch. It was okay that I aborted my baby, it was my legal right to choose. It's okay that I lied, they'll never find out. Sure I use drugs but other people do worse things. Without anything to hold us accountable, how can we honestly maintain morals that mean anything?

So I do agree, a religious incarnation of a deity "god" is not necessary for spiritual fulfillment. You still need a strong spiritual connection with something to hold you accountable or your mind will justify it's own parameters of morality.

 

[Dhara]

People are lazy when things are good for them. They tend to wake up with suffering.

 

[waltky]

Thanks be to God!...

... Romans 7.24-25