Jason Crow's salient point is a lesson for us all.

[Seymour Flops]

The point he was making being a person shouldn't be pigeon holed as being pro-Hamas for speaking out on Israel's inhumane treatment of people living in Gaza.

I'm beginning to get the feeling you're being purposely obtuse. Or just trying to pick a fight.

Oh, you want to have an honest debate? I'm game. Let's see how long you can go before you resort to personal attacks.

Sure, a person can oppose Hamas and decry the conditions of the Arabs in Gaza. But the blame for their plight cannot all be on Israel.

Israel was attacked, it was not the attacker. The war on Hamas has been horrible for Arab civilians, but not because Israel blurred the line between combatants and civilians. Hamas erased that line by operating out of hospital basements, and hiding among the civilian population.

What alternative does Israel have? I see two: Go after Hamas wherever they are, or take a hands off approach so long as Hamas hides among civilians.

The latter is what led to October 7th, and Israel has no interest in a repeat of that massacre.

 

[pknopp]

Oh, you want to have an honest debate? I'm game. Let's see how long you can go before you resort to personal attacks.

Sure, a person can oppose Hamas and decry the conditions of the Arabs in Gaza. But the blame for their plight cannot all be on Israel.

Israel was attacked, it was not the attacker. The war on Hamas has been horrible for Arab civilians, but not because Israel blurred the line between combatants and civilians. Hamas erased that line by operating out of hospital basements, and hiding among the civilian population.

What alternative does Israel have? I see two: Go after Hamas wherever they are, or take a hands off approach so long as Hamas hides among civilians.

The latter is what led to October 7th, and Israel has no interest in a repeat of that massacre.

One can also understand that this war has been going on long before Oct 7th.

 

[berg80]

The war on Hamas has been horrible for Arab civilians, but not because Israel blurred the line between combatants and civilians. Hamas erased that line by operating out of hospital basements, and hiding among the civilian population.

Has Hamas used guerilla tactics leading to civilian deaths? Yes. Does that excuse Israel bombing areas mostly occupied by civilians and preventing international food aid from being allowed in to Gaza? No.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Has Hamas used guerilla tactics leading to civilian deaths? Yes. Does that excuse Israel bombing areas mostly occupied by civilians and preventing international food aid from being allowed in to Gaza? No.

So, how should Israel fight back after Oct 7th that will not simply lead to another Oct 7th?

 

[pknopp]

So, how should Israel fight back after Oct 7th that will not simply lead to another Oct 7th?

The issue is "fight back". Neither side will ever get what they ultimately want so one would think cooler heads would do something so people won't continue to die.

But most likely in 50 years they will still be killing each other.

 

[Seymour Flops]

One can also understand that this war has been going on long before Oct 7th.

I would say the war has ended many times, only to be restarted once Hamas gathers its strength, and buys weapons with funds from Arab nations.

 

[Seymour Flops]

The issue is "fight back".

So, is your answer that Israel should not have fought back at all after Oct 7th?

Don't just say "no." Tell me what Israel should have done, not just what they should not have done.

Neither side will ever get what they ultimately want so one would think cooler heads would do something so people won't continue to die.

But most likely in 50 years they will still be killing each other.

Probably. What exactly should the cooler heads do?

 

[berg80]

So, how should Israel fight back after Oct 7th that will not simply lead to another Oct 7th?

You really shouldn't pretend Oct. 7 is the genesis of the conflict if you want to have an honest debate. Don't you think Israel's response, leveling much of Gaza, killing thousands of civilians, starving women and children, is enough of a military response?

Tell ya what. Since you have managed to get the discussion to go off topic I'm going to end it here unless you can give me an example I asked for when the thread began.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You really shouldn't pretend Oct. 7 is the genesis of the conflict if you want to have an honest debate.

I'm not pretending that. Israel has defeated Hamas in the past, but it did not finish Hamas off. That's why Oct 7th happened. It was a continuation of Hamas's long-time campaign to terrorize Israeli civilians.

Don't you think Israel's response, leveling much of Gaza, killing thousands of civilians, starving women and children, is enough of a military response?

It will be enough when Hamas surrenders. We didn't just bomb German and Japan and leave it at that, we insisted they surrender.

Tell ya what. Since you have managed to get the discussion to go off topic I'm going to end it here unless you can give me an example I asked for when the thread began.

Israel and Hamas was one of your examples, so how is it off-topic to talk about Israel and Hamas?

I understand you don't want to talk about it now that I have asked a question you don't want to answer: What should Israel have done after Oct 7th, that would not lead to yet another attack by Hamas?

I gave an example to answer your first question:


I can recognize that Trump was unsuccessful in forming a well-functioning marital relationship, due to his own weakness and self-indulgence while at the same time being very glad that he is not only a very strong and successful president, who is quickly reversing the worst actions of his predecessor (more correctly, his predecessor's Autopen weilding handlers).

Here's another:

I can recognize that electric cars produce far less polution that gasoline cars, and that if they are charged using electricty generated by wind, solar, nuclear, or other basically unlimited power sources, humans are better off. At the same time I understand that government subsidies of such projects are a far worse way to fund them than allowing the free market to provide such innovation as it always has.

I can understand that children who are hungry should be fed while at the same time realizing that giving cash and cashable instruments to the irresponsible parents who have put them in a position to go without is at the bottom of the list of good ways to feed them.

 

[pknopp]

So, is your answer that Israel should not have fought back at all after Oct 7th?

What I said should have been done long ago.

 

[Seymour Flops]

What I said should have been done long ago.

What, though?

You just said "cooler heads should do something."

Do what?

 

[22lcidw]

The issue is "fight back". Neither side will ever get what they ultimately want so one would think cooler heads would do something so people won't continue to die.

But most likely in 50 years they will still be killing each other.

Hopefully, the world war will be a limited one as nukes will be used. Economics will change though and what we took for granted will be affected.

 

[pknopp]

Hopefully, the world war will be a limited one as nukes will be used. Economics will change though and what we took for granted will be affected.

Because people can't just let go their hate.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Has Hamas used guerilla tactics leading to civilian deaths? Yes. Does that excuse Israel bombing areas mostly occupied by civilians and preventing international food aid from being allowed in to Gaza? No.

Food aid hasn't been prevented from entering Gaza. Plenty of aid has arrived. It's HAMAS who's confiscating it. That said, I don't give two ***** about the children of Gaza. Palestinians hate the United States and most of western culture and we are under no obligation to help them. Those "starving" children in Gaza will simply grow up to be terrorists and HAMAS supporters like their parents, so the more of them that die, the better, and if it were up to me I'd exterminate every last damn one of them.

 

[Nostra]

And to the point of the OP, they do not support grabbing and arresting those showing up to their hearings.

I do.

 

[Nostra]

Has Hamas used guerilla tactics leading to civilian deaths? Yes. Does that excuse Israel bombing areas mostly occupied by civilians and preventing international food aid from being allowed in to Gaza? No.

Wokester lies.

 

[berg80]

I can recognize that electric cars produce far less polution that gasoline cars, and that if they are charged using electricty generated by wind, solar, nuclear, or other basically unlimited power sources, humans are better off. At the same time I understand that government subsidies of such projects are a far worse way to fund them than allowing the free market to provide such innovation as it always has.

Can I assume that means you are against trump's policy of refusing to approve new solar and wind projects? And that the government should discontinue subsidies to legacy energy companies?

 

[berg80]

Food aid hasn't been prevented from entering Gaza. Plenty of aid has arrived. It's HAMAS who's confiscating it. That said, I don't give two ***** about the children of Gaza. Palestinians hate the United States and most of western culture and we are under no obligation to help them. Those "starving" children in Gaza will simply grow up to be terrorists and HAMAS supporters like their parents, so the more of them that die, the better, and if it were up to me I'd exterminate every last damn one of them.

I'm afraid you've been misinformed.

New Israeli rules stopping critical aid getting into Gaza, charities says

More than 100 aid organisations say they are increasingly being told they are "not authorised" to deliver supplies.

www.bbc.com

 

[whitehall]

Crow needs to deal with the craziness in his own party before he tries to tackle international issues. Apparently there is zero support among democrat voters about the agenda of the party.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I'm afraid you've been misinformed.

New Israeli rules stopping critical aid getting into Gaza, charities says

More than 100 aid organisations say they are increasingly being told they are "not authorised" to deliver supplies.

www.bbc.com

I'm afraid you've been misinformed