I've noticed that people who focus on God's love the most are the most unloving people

[rightnow909]

I don't know... just an observation

But it seems that those who like to talk about God's love and how... Oh, I am forgiven for all my sins and etc..

they say the nastiest things to others... accuse them of hideous motives, tell them in so many words they are stupid or don't know a damn thing...

on the other hand, those focused on God's LAWS... the Commandments of Christ... and yes, He gave us Commandments

well, they seem to be much more civilized and caring people...

So yeh... away with this "love" stuff...

human beings don't have a first clue about what real love is... until and unless they KNOW Jesus... and only Catholics have Christ's REAL PRESENCE (wherein they can experience it)

 

[Meriweather]

In the very early days of Christianity, outsiders pointed out that the idea of sins being forgiven could be the same as giving one permission to sin.

I wouldn't say people who focus on God's love, but rather those who focus on God's forgiveness. The forget two points: One it is forgiveness for the repentance of sins--repentance meaning turning away from that sin. Second, Jesus warned of getting rid of something without replacing it with something else.

Get rid of all sin, and you may inviting even worse sins into your life. Jesus noted that we also need to discern the will of God and follow it. Repenting but not going forward into discerning and following God's will may leave one stranded.

 

[rightnow909]

In the very early days of Christianity, outsiders pointed out that the idea of sins being forgiven could be the same as giving one permission to sin.

I wouldn't say people who focus on God's love, but rather those who focus on God's forgiveness. The forget two points: One it is forgiveness for the repentance of sins--repentance meaning turning away from that sin. Second, Jesus warned of getting rid of something without replacing it with something else.

Get rid of all sin, and you may inviting even worse sins into your life. Jesus noted that we also need to discern the will of God and follow it. Repenting but not going forward into discerning and following God's will may leave one stranded.

I have NO clue what the highlighted means. I have read the Bible and NEVER read anything about a warning RE getting rid of something without replacing it with something else... It's not there. I have read the New T over and over and as you know Cahtolics hear it every day if they attend daily Mass... so I KNOW it is not there...

and that thing about getting rid of all sin... that is just ... I don't have the words to say... But we are to get rid of our sins.. That's why I can't stand some of these non Catholic 'churches' ... they act like.. Oh, Jesus forgave me 20 years ago and in that 20 years I've... been rude to people, refused to help those in need.. insulted people... cheated on my taxes...

but NO PROBLEM! I am IN HEAVEN AS SOON AS I DIE

and you damn Catholics better not tel me otherwise... or you are a stupid moron who doesn't know what you're talking about and you don't know anything about Jesus and you are a liar and etc... etc...

please.

 

[Meriweather]

so I KNOW it is not there...

Remember the passage about clearing out evil spirits/demons? Try Matthew 12:44-45

 

[Winston]

I don't know... just an observation

But it seems that those who like to talk about God's love and how... Oh, I am forgiven for all my sins and etc..

they say the nastiest things to others... accuse them of hideous motives, tell them in so many words they are stupid or don't know a damn thing...

on the other hand, those focused on God's LAWS... the Commandments of Christ... and yes, He gave us Commandments

well, they seem to be much more civilized and caring people...

So yeh... away with this "love" stuff...

human beings don't have a first clue about what real love is... until and unless they KNOW Jesus... and only Catholics have Christ's REAL PRESENCE (wherein they can experience it)

I know that everyone likes to focus on that love thy neighbor bit. And I understand the whole problem with the forgiveness of sins. But the truth is God requires three things from us, and they don't have anything to do with "love" or with sin.

Justice--act justly, seek justice, correct oppression. I mean the bit about love thy neighbor is in the bible what, maybe a couple of times. To be just, to act justly, is in the bible countless times.

Love Kindness--there is the love part. It is not "loving" other people. It is loving the concept of kindness. Be kind, just be kind. You can talk about loving everyone till the cows come home, being kind is an action, and actions speak louder than words.

Be Humble: In my eyes, that is the biggest of all. Take the act of giving for instance. It seriously bothers me that churches keep a record, send a statement to their members, as to how much money they have contributed. That is not right. Giving should be done in secret. Drop a gold coin in the Salvation Army kettle at Christmas. Pay off all the layaways at the local Walmart and never give them your name. Pay for the dinner of someone at a restaurant and don't let them know it was you.

Deliver justice, be fair, be kind, and be humble. That is the ticket to everlasting life and space in heaven is pretty limited.

 

[rightnow909]

I know that everyone likes to focus on that love thy neighbor bit. And I understand the whole problem with the forgiveness of sins. But the truth is God requires three things from us, and they don't have anything to do with "love" or with sin.

Justice--act justly, seek justice, correct oppression. I mean the bit about love thy neighbor is in the bible what, maybe a couple of times. To be just, to act justly, is in the bible countless times.

Love Kindness--there is the love part. It is not "loving" other people. It is loving the concept of kindness. Be kind, just be kind. You can talk about loving everyone till the cows come home, being kind is an action, and actions speak louder than words.

Be Humble: In my eyes, that is the biggest of all. Take the act of giving for instance. It seriously bothers me that churches keep a record, send a statement to their members, as to how much money they have contributed. That is not right. Giving should be done in secret. Drop a gold coin in the Salvation Army kettle at Christmas. Pay off all the layaways at the local Walmart and never give them your name. Pay for the dinner of someone at a restaurant and don't let them know it was you.

Deliver justice, be fair, be kind, and be humble. That is the ticket to everlasting life and space in heaven is pretty limited.

i can't argue with that... I've noticed how wealthier parishioners are treated w/ respect while those who can't give much... whatever..

But did Jesus own anything? I mean, the Church IMO needs to get poorer or something.. I think priests are a little too comfortable.. they drive new cars, live in nice houses..

I'm not saying they should drive a 30 year old car and live in a tent on the sidewalk but ... something seems a little off...

 

[rightnow909]

Remember the passage about clearing out evil spirits/demons? Try Matthew 12:44-45

Douay Rheims (best Bible) says Then he [the evil spirit] saith: I will return into my house from whence I came out. And coming he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

that's all i got from BibleHub but i know the demon grabs some buddies and returns to the swept clean abode..

That is not what you claimed... maybe remotely similar but .. pretty remotely imo. You never mentioned the demon part...

 

[Meriweather]

That is not what you claimed... maybe remotely similar but .. pretty remotely imo. You never mentioned the demon part...

Actually, I did, briefly. Some translations have 'demon'. Some use 'evil spirit'. Others use 'unclean spirit'. I tend to see it more as 'unclean spirit', but I understand the other interpretations as well.

Allowing our own spirit to become unclean leads to sin. We need a clean spirit that prompts us to discerning and following the will of God. God's will is the ideal.

 

[rightnow909]

Actually, I did, briefly. Some translations have 'demon'. Some use 'evil spirit'. Others use 'unclean spirit'. I tend to see it more as 'unclean spirit', but I understand the other interpretations as well.

Allowing our own spirit to become unclean leads to sin. We need a clean spirit that prompts us to discerning and following the will of God. God's will is the ideal.

you act like you suspect i don't know this (the last sentence). All christians know that..

But I can't see how getting rid of more sin causes demons to come and get you w/ more of their buddies.. I've found that the more I work on my sin... the better I get at... not sinning. I have noticed this one thing.. the more I give up certain venial sins (ditched the mortal ones a long time ago..) the more intolerant I am of other people doing.. well, I am not intolerant of small things but some people... sheez... they do the damnedest things.. and then call themselves Christian... That doesn't bother me so much either if they just do it out of habit or whatever... but some people don't work on their faults and shortcomings... Again, there is too much of this God forgives.. I'm going straight to Heaven when I die stuff...

it's a lie...

 

[Meriweather]

I've found that the more I work on my sin... the better I get at... not sinning.

My point is, what are we doing in place of sin? Doing nothing is sloth--a deadly sin in itself.

 

[Hollie]

Remember the passage about clearing out evil spirits/demons? Try Matthew 12:44-45

Evil spirits / demons?

A child who doesn't let go of fears and superstitions about evil spirits / demons is said to have never grown up.

 

[Meriweather]

A child who doesn't let go of fears and superstitions about evil spirits / demons is said to have never grown up.

The best translation is 'unclean spirit'. For those of us who believe humans are created with body, mind, and spirit understand that just as we can have unclean bodies (that we can wash clean), we can also have an unclean spirit that can also be cleansed.

Perhaps you take this too literally?

 

[Hollie]

The best translation is 'unclean spirit'. For those of us who believe humans are created with body, mind, and spirit understand that just as we can have unclean bodies (that we can wash clean), we can also have an unclean spirit that can also be cleansed.

Perhaps you take this too literally?

Perhaps you can give us some objective information regarding spirits?

 

[rightnow909]

My point is, what are we doing in place of sin? Doing nothing is sloth--a deadly sin in itself.

i try to stay busy... Sometimes I getdown because thedims are in the WH and the world is going to hell and gas prices are ridiculous and the commies are coming...

which causes me to want to sleep all the time and/or get drunk... but other than that, I'm pretty busy... I like to read...

about things that make sense... you know... to contrast w/ the WH situation and current events in general... also to escape...

 

[Meriweather]

Perhaps you can give us some objective information regarding spirits?

If you are one who believes humans are made solely of body and mind, there is no reason to go any further than advising you that some believe we consist of body, mind, and spirit. Be content with your own beliefs while understanding some see it differently.

 

[Woodznutz]

Evil spirits / demons?

A child who doesn't let go of fears and superstitions about evil spirits / demons is said to have never grown up.

The mature Christian understands that there are evil spirits.

 

[Hollie]

The mature Christian understands that there are evil spirits.

I have serious doubts as to the number of “mature” Christians who understand there are evil spirits. Do mature Christians understand that mental illness is due to possession by spirits or demons? Those religious beliefs involve entities or ideas that currently are not within the domain of science. Thus, do we assume that mental illness is a result of supernatural, evil spirits and cannot be addressed by scientific findings?

 

[Feeding Crows]

I'm going to be nice and not post here, because I don't want to break my streak.

 

[Meriweather]

I have serious doubts as to the number of “mature” Christians who understand there are evil spirits. Do mature Christians understand that mental illness is due to possession by spirits or demons? Those religious beliefs involve entities or ideas that currently are not within the domain of science. Thus, do we assume that mental illness is a result of supernatural, evil spirits and cannot be addressed by scientific findings?

When people say 'mental illness' they are not asserting there is only one kind of mental illness. Being bi-polar is not the same as being a sociopath.

In the same way, when people of faith talk about 'spirit' it encompasses a broad range. The lyrics of Psalm 51 include: Create in me a clean heart, and renew a right spirit within me.

'Renew a right spirit' is central to the individual self in the same way a 'clean heart' is central to the individual self.

Then there is God's spirit--the Holy Spirit.

Being surrounded by 'unclean spirits' can be much the same as declaring one lives among idiots.

Are there demons that can possess a second party. Yes, but possession is rare, because the one thing all possessions have in common is that the demon was given an invitation. Demons apparently must honor free will.

Both possession and mental illness can be misdiagnosed--pretty much the same as any physical malady.

 

[Hollie]

When people say 'mental illness' they are not asserting there is only one kind of mental illness. Being bi-polar is not the same as being a sociopath.

In the same way, when people of faith talk about 'spirit' it encompasses a broad range. The lyrics of Psalm 51 include: Create in me a clean heart, and renew a right spirit within me.

'Renew a right spirit' is central to the individual self in the same way a 'clean heart' is central to the individual self.

Then there is God's spirit--the Holy Spirit.

Being surrounded by 'unclean spirits' can be much the same as declaring one lives among idiots.

Are there demons that can possess a second party. Yes, but possession is rare, because the one thing all possessions have in common is that the demon was given an invitation. Demons apparently must honor free will.

Both possession and mental illness can be misdiagnosed--pretty much the same as any physical malady.

So, tell us about these ‘demons’. This seems to be a discussion you might better have with a practitioner of Santeria where you can trade barbs about which religion has the bigger, badder demons.

Ultimately, I have no way of substantiating what a demon is and apparently neither do the religious folk. If you accept the value of scientific investigation and knowledge, then any investigation and knowledge of the physical world is scientifically approachable, and this means it is methodologically natural. That's all it means. If there are Gods, demons, devils and other entities that go bump in the night, that's of no consequence to science one way or the other.