It would seem to me the residual fallout of the 12 Day War in Iran is a message that "U.S technology is better than Russian/Iranian technology"

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Well, other than many of us that served then. Oh, and the USS Kidd (DD-993) museum. Funny how you are still insisting they were never called that, when the museum web site clearly states that they were called that.

Are you alright?

Where did the part you linked say that? You didn't quote that part. So I read the article. It says the Dead Admiral Class, but you forgot to quote that part. It also says I am correct that it was called the Ayatollah class.

I served on active duty from 1978-1994 and never once heard them referred to as the Dead Admiral Class because that makes no sense. I don't have any idea where they got that information. I was a Surface Warfare Officer who had classmates at department head school assigned to those ships. Your source is simply full of shit. I don't blame you for believing it because you were not there. I was! The museum is simply wrong.

 

[Mushroom]

Stealth aircraft are designed to be used at night and high altitude

Uh, even the F-35 series? You know, the aircraft that not only Israel used, but is the replacement for the F-18 and AV8B? You know, the one that the Air Force, Navy and Marines are all saying are going to be used for CAS missions?

Tell me, do you really think the F-35 series are only going to be operating at high altitude at night? And somehow still able to provide support in a CAS mission?

Where did the part you linked say that? You didn't quote that part.

Did not quote it? Hell, I freaking highlighted it!

But here we go, since apparently you missed it.

Originally named Kouroush, the ship was ordered by the Shah of Iran, but was undelivered when the 1979 Iranian Revolution occurred. Subsequent to this, the U.S. Navy elected to commission the Kidd-class for service in the Persian Gulf and Mediterranean, as they were equipped with heavy-duty air conditioning and were also well suited to filtering sand and the results from NBC warfare. Kidd-class ships were known in the fleet informally as the “Ayatollah” or “dead admiral” class.

This time it is bold and red, still miss it? If I could I would make it flashing to make it even more obvious.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Uh, even the F-35 series? You know, the aircraft that not only Israel used, but is the replacement for the F-18 and AV8B? You know, the one that the Air Force, Navy and Marines are all saying are going to be used for CAS missions?

Tell me, do you really think the F-35 series are only going to be operating at high altitude at night? And somehow still able to provide support in a CAS mission?



Did not quote it? Hell, I freaking highlighted it!

But here we go, since apparently you missed it.



This time it is bold and red, still miss it? If I could I would make it flashing to make it even more obvious.

I read that on the webpage. You neglected to quote it. The Marines use the F-35B and for CAS it will be about as stealthy as a flying neon billboard because it will need external stores. That is the largest criticism of the F-35 in a CAS role. Please stay in your area of expertise.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Actually, they were always referred to as the "Ayatollah Class". My high school classmate who also joined the Navy was assigned to one in San Diego. They are actual DDG variants of the Spruance as it had a complete missile system forward and aft like the nuclear CGs.

If I remember correctly the Kidds sacrificed the aviation facilities for the aft missile launchers.

 

[Mushroom]

I read that on the webpage. You neglected to quote it.

Go back and look at my original post, I did quote it. Holy hell, I even quoted it a second time.

 

[BackAgain]

The so-called fallout might very well have been part of the plan.

I am absolutely spitballing here, at this point, but I am guessing that the timing of the Israeli pre-emptive strike on Iran was previously coordinated with President Trump.

Israel couldn’t do it because even if they had MOP’s, they have no aircraft to take them to the destination. Their attack against Iran was therefore doomed to failure — and of course Israel knew it — UNLESS they could manage to persuade President Trump to do the heavy lifting.

And here’s the thing. The multiple years of detailed planing didn’t happen in the 12 days. This thing was planned and coordinated.

And in that planning, I suspect that it’s very probable that there were considerations about how our pals in Beijing might see it and its implications.

 

[Rigby5]

The more important message is that the U.S. now has a President who is willing to pull the trigger when faced with untenable developments abroad.

Consider...what would happen if Putin started using chemical, biological, or radiological weapons in Ukraine? A nuke or two?

Now Putin knows what would happen.

Deterrence don't mean shit if you are not willing to deter.

Wrong.
If the US used a "nuke or two", the entire US would be wiped out by the vastly larger Russian nuclear arsenal.
We have no EMP protection to our vehicles, utilities, phones, TVs, etc.
We could easily be instantly destroyed.

In contrast, Russia is paranoid and have always shielded and duplicated everything, so they likely could withstand a nuclear attack.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
If the US used a "nuke or two", the entire US would be wiped out by the vastly larger Russian nuclear arsenal.
We have no EMP protection to our vehicles, utilities, phones, TVs, etc.
We could easily be instantly destroyed.

In contrast, Russia is paranoid and have always shielded and duplicated everything, so they likely could withstand a nuclear attack.

The Russian nuclear arsenal is not VASTLY larger

They have no EMP protection either

They have no shielded or duplicated anything

They are just as vulnerable

 

[Rigby5]

Stealth aircraft are designed to be used at night and high altitude to avoid the very gun systems you cited. They aren't painted international orange for a reason.

If a country has satellites, like Russia does, then stealth aircraft no longer work because the satellite can broadcast the signal and the stealth craft projects a shadow in the satellite signal.

 

[Rigby5]

The Russian nuclear arsenal is not VASTLY larger

They have no EMP protection either

They have no shielded or duplicated anything

They are just as vulnerable

Wrong.
We do not know the full size of the Russian nuclear arsenal, but the estimates are it is twice the size of ours.

They do have EMP protection because they do not put delicate cpus in everything like we do.
For example, their vehicles often still have breaker point in a distributer instead of an ECU.
They do not connect everything with the Internet, and use shielding on all computers.
The older the technology, the larger the scale, so the less vulnerable to EMP pulses.
And there is no doubt at all Russia uses olde and therefore more resilient technology than we do.

 

[Rigby5]

The so-called fallout might very well have been part of the plan.

I am absolutely spitballing here, at this point, but I am guessing that the timing of the Israeli pre-emptive strike on Iran was previously coordinated with President Trump.

Israel couldn’t do it because even if they had MOP’s, they have no aircraft to take them to the destination. Their attack against Iran was therefore doomed to failure — and of course Israel knew it — UNLESS they could manage to persuade President Trump to do the heavy lifting.

And here’s the thing. The multiple years of detailed planing didn’t happen in the 12 days. This thing was planned and coordinated.

And in that planning, I suspect that it’s very probable that there were considerations about how our pals in Beijing might see it and its implications.

The "implications" are that the US is in violation of international laws, and likely will face retaliation.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
We do not know the full size of the Russian nuclear arsenal, but the estimates are it is twice the size of ours.

They do have EMP protection because they do not put delicate cpus in everything like we do.
For example, their vehicles often still have breaker point in a distributer instead of an ECU.
They do not connect everything with the Internet, and use shielding on all computers.
The older the technology, the larger the scale, so the less vulnerable to EMP pulses.
And there is no doubt at all Russia uses olde and therefore more resilient technology than we do.

WRONG

We do know and it is only about 100 warheads more than we have which is meaningless as both sides have over 1500 warheads

That is fact and you are wrong and know nothing about this

They do in fact use almost identical technology with delicate CPUS and ECUs

They are in fact connected and just as dependant on the internet as we are
They have no better protection against EMP and are just as vulnerable

There is no doubt you pulled all of your claims from your ass and made them up

You are proven to be a liar and ignorant and full of shit

 

[Soupnazi630]

The "implications" are that the US is in violation of international laws, and likely will face retaliation.

It is not and will face nothing

 

[BackAgain]

The "implications" are that the US is in violation of international laws, and likely will face retaliation.

Another knee jerk response from one of the board retards.

 

[Soupnazi630]

If a country has satellites, like Russia does, then stealth aircraft no longer work because the satellite can broadcast the signal and the stealth craft projects a shadow in the satellite signal.

Nope sorry

As always you are full of shit

Satellites can help in detecting steralth aircraft but only with a massive coordinated effort of ground signla radar and multiple satellites.

they do not defeat stealth technology as you claim

It is still difficult to defeat even for the russians

As usual you are one stupid ******* idiot making shit up as you go

 

[AZrailwhale]

The so-called fallout might very well have been part of the plan.

I am absolutely spitballing here, at this point, but I am guessing that the timing of the Israeli pre-emptive strike on Iran was previously coordinated with President Trump.

Israel couldn’t do it because even if they had MOP’s, they have no aircraft to take them to the destination. Their attack against Iran was therefore doomed to failure — and of course Israel knew it — UNLESS they could manage to persuade President Trump to do the heavy lifting.

And here’s the thing. The multiple years of detailed planing didn’t happen in the 12 days. This thing was planned and coordinated.

And in that planning, I suspect that it’s very probable that there were considerations about how our pals in Beijing might see it and its implications.

The Israeli attack wasn't "doomed to failure" they killed the entire human infrastructure of Iran's nuclear program. hit and destroyed all of the medium and soft targets and killed off Iran's religious militia's command structure and most of its weapons and facilities. Israel significantly weakened the Mullahs hold on to power and weakened their internal terror structure.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Wrong.
If the US used a "nuke or two", the entire US would be wiped out by the vastly larger Russian nuclear arsenal.
We have no EMP protection to our vehicles, utilities, phones, TVs, etc.
We could easily be instantly destroyed.

In contrast, Russia is paranoid and have always shielded and duplicated everything, so they likely could withstand a nuclear attack.

The Russian deployed nuclear stockpile is the same size as ours but add in the Brits and French and NATO is larger. NATO has 2,120 deployed nuclear warheads; the Russian only have 1,770. Ours will work since we have spent money maintaining it. The Russian stockpile won't work, or at least most of it won't and most of the Russian missiles won't clear the silos because Russia hasn't been spending the money to maintain the stockpile and lacks the knowledge to do so. Russia equipment has to be maintained by officers because it has no professional NCO and Warrant Officer structure, and few capable Russian officers stay in the military because of the starvation wages paid. The ones that stay are the corrupt ones that sell their men's food and weapons on the black market for their own profit. If Russia tries to launch nukes, only the tiny percentage that has both a working missile AND a working warhead will detonate. My guess is that number is one percent or less.

 

[BackAgain]

The Israeli attack wasn't "doomed to failure" they killed the entire human infrastructure of Iran's nuclear program. hit and destroyed all of the medium and soft targets and killed off Iran's religious militia's command structure and most of its weapons and facilities. Israel significantly weakened the Mullahs hold on to power and weakened their internal terror structure.

What I meant by “doomed to failure” was about destroying that underground facility.

 

[Mushroom]

I am absolutely spitballing here, at this point, but I am guessing that the timing of the Israeli pre-emptive strike on Iran was previously coordinated with President Trump.

I actually also believe that. And it makes a hell of a lot of sense when you look at the timeline.

Operation Rising Lion started on 13 June, and concentrated a hell of a lot on destroying Iranian air defenses. They went after a hell of a lot of other infrastructure, but what was lesser reported was that they almost wiped out the air defense systems.

Then on 15 June reports started surfacing that a huge number of US air tanker aircraft were leaving their bases and heading towards Europe. Now this was widely reported on, much more so because it was not really needed. We have air tankers already in the region, from England and Germany to Quatar and Diego Garcia and Japan. So why send around 30 additional tankers?

I think that was two messages being sent. For one, it was a warning to Iran. And it was an additional warning to Russia. Because those tankers would most likely be used for only one mission, refueling B-2 bombers.

And if somebody is not thinking of Russia, consider this. The US almost casually sent 30 tankers to Europe. The entire Russian Air Tanker fleet is only 19 tankers. The US just sent over 150% of the entire Russian tanker fleet almost casually, and did not even try to hide it.

Then of course the US strike on 22 June.

The timing and the selection of the Israeli targeting is to precise for this to not have been planned ahead of time.

And there is yet another message here, one aimed at Russia and China. With an export version of the F-35A, Israel almost completely destroyed all air defenses in most of Iran. Without taking any losses. The US then followed it up with an even more powerful strike, once again with no losses.

And Iran was using some of the most modern air defenses that China and Russia export. And both Israel and the US swept clean through them without losses.

I bet both nations have a lot of people in their versions of the Pentagon quietly crapping their pants right about now. This was both a powerful as well as subtle display of force. Very much in the vein of Teddy Roosevelt's "Big Stick Diplomacy". The US and Israel showed three of the largest bullies on the planet what they are capable of, and it is something the US can repeat globally at will even without Israel.

And defense planners in many countries are now likely examining their own policies, and wondering what else the US might have that it has not shown anybody yet.

And at least for the remainder of the Trump Presidency, I think this would likely be the warning that the US is about to strike. Sending out a large number of air tankers, as a warning "That's all I can stands - I can't stands no more!"

 

[Mushroom]

What I meant by “doomed to failure” was about destroying that underground facility.

That was a capability they simply do not have. Therefore that claim does not apply, as that was never their mission.