Israeli blockade of Gaza caused Oct 7th

[ShahdagMountains]

What am I showing off?

Your moronic ego.

 

[toomuchtime_]

So, you fuckers actually murdered almost 65,000 people? You are an evil country with evil people
Even with all this death you are causing, there is no empathy in any of your posts.

Lancet Study Finds Official Gaza Death Toll Likely a 41% Undercount | Common Dreams

The peer-reviewed analysis estimates that Israel's assault on Gaza killed 64,260 people between October 7, 2023 and June 30, 2024—a figure significantly higher than the one reported by the enclave's health ministry.

www.commondreams.org

If you had any empathy for the Palestinians you would be advising them to release all the hostages and disarm since that is the only way to end this war they started, but you don't because your interest is in attacking Jews, not saving Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

So, you fuckers actually murdered almost 65,000 people? You are an evil country with evil people
Even with all this death you are causing, there is no empathy in any of your posts.

Lancet Study Finds Official Gaza Death Toll Likely a 41% Undercount | Common Dreams

The peer-reviewed analysis estimates that Israel's assault on Gaza killed 64,260 people between October 7, 2023 and June 30, 2024—a figure significantly higher than the one reported by the enclave's health ministry.

www.commondreams.org

I can't find the Lancet article yet, but you wouldn't know a study if it bit you in the ass.

 

[Billo_Really]

I can't find the Lancet article yet, but you wouldn't know a study if it bit you in the ass.

You can't find the article? All you do is click the link I provided. You're a ******* liar!

How would you feel if the world looked the other way and said nothing about the Holocaust?

How the **** would you feel about that?

 

[Billo_Really]

If you had any empathy for the Palestinians you would be advising them to release all the hostages and disarm since that is the only way to end this war they started, but you don't because your interest is in attacking Jews, not saving Palestinians.

Why don:t Israel disarm? Saying the Palestinians should disarm, is the same as saying they have no right to defend themselves?

Thank you for confirming you fuckers are premadonas and a cancer to this planet?

 

[Billo_Really]

Your moronic ego.

I'm what way?

 

[Shusha]

You can't find the article? All you do is click the link I provided. You're a ******* liar!

How would you feel if the world looked the other way and said nothing about the Holocaust?

How the **** would you feel about that?

I can’t find the Lancet study and/or the source material. I can find find all sorts of articles about the article and they are all reporting it very differently. I want to know what the ACTUAL study says. This is why you can’t determine objective fact from fantasy. You just absorb whatever stories people tell you and have no idea what primary sources are.

 

[Billo_Really]

I can’t find the Lancet study and/or the source material. I can find find all sorts of articles about the article and they are all reporting it very differently. I want to know what the ACTUAL study says. This is why you can’t determine objective fact from fantasy. You just absorb whatever stories people tell you and have no idea what primary sources are.

Do you have any evidence or proof that this article is bogus? Or are you like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz closing her eyes and chanting, "There's no place like home?"

 

[toomuchtime_]

Why don:t Israel disarm? Saying the Palestinians should disarm, is the same as saying they have no right to defend themselves?

Thank you for confirming you fuckers are premadonas and a cancer to this planet?

Once again you confirm your lack of empathy for the Palestinians who are suffering in this war.

 

[Shusha]

Do you have any evidence or proof that this article is bogus? Or are you like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz closing her eyes and chanting, "There's no place like home?"

That's the whole point. I can't tell if it is bogus or not until I read the actual study and see what it says. The reporting on the Lancet study is TERRIBLE. Different outlets saying very different things. Some say 64,000 total deaths to today. Some say 64,000 deaths as at June 2024. HUGE difference. So this article is definitely not being reported correctly. I need the original. If you find it before me (unlikely) kindly share the link.

 

[Billo_Really]

Once again you confirm your lack of empathy for the Palestinians who are suffering in this war.

And you are just making shit up because you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Lisa558]

I can’t find the Lancet study and/or the source material. I can find find all sorts of articles about the article and they are all reporting it very differently. I want to know what the ACTUAL study says. This is why you can’t determine objective fact from fantasy. You just absorb whatever stories people tell you and have no idea what primary sources are.

Ignorant, unintelligent people like Billo are quite scary. They are the ones who fall prey to the antisemitic propaganda the Jew-haters spew, and because people like Billo already are predisposed to side against Israel due to their own hostility toward Jews they then continue spreading the lies. Listen to him screech about “genocide” and make comparisons to the Holocaust.

Right now, about 90% of the antisemitism is coming from the left, and 10% from the right - and for different reasons. The right is based on the “Jews killed Jesus” lie and the anti-Jew sentiment advanced in the NT. The left is based on resentment for successful people, and especially those who overcome horrific bigotry, and their mistaken categorization into oppressors (those who do well) and oppressed (those who are failures). It’s the same reason they side with illegals over citizens, make excuses for welfare queens and mock the working class, and release dangerous felons onto the streets to the detriment of law-abiders.

It’s so bad that they side with Islamic terrorists over Jews, and even the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and Columbia won’t condemn their students’ chants of “Death to Jews.”

 

[Shusha]

Ignorant, unintelligent people like Billo are quite scary. They are the ones who fall prey to the antisemitic propaganda the Jew-haters spew, and because people like Billo already are predisposed to side against Israel due to their own hostility toward Jews they then continue spreading the lies. Listen to him screech about “genocide” and make comparisons to the Holocaust.

Right now, about 90% of the antisemitism is coming from the left, and 10% from the right - and for different reasons. The right is based on the “Jews killed Jesus” lie and the anti-Jew sentiment advanced in the NT. The left is based on resentment for successful people, and especially those who overcome horrific bigotry, and their mistaken categorization into oppressors (those who do well) and oppressed (those who are failures). It’s the same reason they side with illegals over citizens, make excuses for welfare queens and mock the working class, and release dangerous felons onto the streets to the detriment of law-abiders.

It’s so bad that they side with Islamic terrorists over Jews, and even the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and Columbia won’t condemn their students’ chants of “Death to Jews.”

Billo and I have been chatting for years. It's been interesting witnessing the change in him, as I've noticed in society generally. He used to be much better at searching for and understanding facts and conducting a reasoned argument.

 

[toomuchtime_]

And you are just making shit up because you don't know what you are talking about.

I'm just repeating what you are saying which is that you would prefer to see the so called Palestinians suffer and die in a war they cannot win rather than see them agree to live in peace with Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Billo_Really

Okay. I've located and read the Lancet study.

From October 7, 2023 to June 30, 2024, according to this study, 29, 271 unique decedents from trauma-related injury have been identified by comparing the MoH hospital lists; an online survey list; and social media.

This is very much in line with what other studies have shown (except for the trauma-related injury part as, to my knowledge, no records, including MoH records claim cause of death.)

Then, for some reason I am unable to fathom, they ADD another 34, 995 deaths that are "estimated deaths outside any list". That is, they estimate that there are 34, 995 deaths for which there are no records. I have yet to determine how they obtained that number. Near as I can tell they just arbitrarily added the extra deaths to inflate the numbers. (I am not a statistician, but I can't see in the study their rationale. If someone else can, I'd be grateful for an explanation).

Also, lest people complain I have no heart, yes, every civilian death, especially the deaths of children is terrible and tragic and every effort should be made to prevent those deaths. (I am very much less empathetic to Hamas members and any who celebrated, assisted, or contributed to the atrocities committed on October 7 and the 18 years of preparation leading up to it.)

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Billo_Really

Okay. I've located and read the Lancet study.

From October 7, 2023 to June 30, 2024, according to this study, 29, 271 unique decedents from trauma-related injury have been identified by comparing the MoH hospital lists; an online survey list; and social media.

This is very much in line with what other studies have shown (except for the trauma-related injury part as, to my knowledge, no records, including MoH records claim cause of death.)

Then, for some reason I am unable to fathom, they ADD another 34, 995 deaths that are "estimated deaths outside any list". That is, they estimate that there are 34, 995 deaths for which there are no records. I have yet to determine how they obtained that number. Near as I can tell they just arbitrarily added the extra deaths to inflate the numbers. (I am not a statistician, but I can't see in the study their rationale. If someone else can, I'd be grateful for an explanation).

Also, lest people complain I have no heart, yes, every civilian death, especially the deaths of children is terrible and tragic and every effort should be made to prevent those deaths. (I am very much less empathetic to Hamas members and any who celebrated, assisted, or contributed to the atrocities committed on October 7 and the 18 years of preparation leading up to it.)

Like the claimed number of victims of the holocaust in WW2, the numbers are estimated and based on a variety of sources and extrapolations.

At the start of 1943 the number of exterminated Jews was estimated at around 2,000,000 in the press whereas six months before number like 1,000,000 were being reported.

The point being made here is that the counting and estimating is hard to do well during a conflict, it is only after the dust has settled that one can hope to increase the accuracy of estimates.

 

[Shusha]

Like the claimed number of victims of the holocaust in WW2, the numbers are estimated and based on a variety of sources and extrapolations.

At the start of 1943 the number of exterminated Jews was estimated at around 2,000,000 in the press.

Still. Studies should provide an explanation.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The regime carrying out the murders cannot be taken seriously when it says "Israel says Hamas's figures cannot be trusted" any more that the Nazis could have been trusted if they had disputed Jewish numbers.

Gaza war death toll could be significantly higher, researchers say

A study in The Lancet suggests Gaza ministry of health figures over a nine-month period might be too low.

www.bbc.com

We should treat the estimate of 64,000 as of last June as reasonable, based on the data available and not keep pandering to Zionist propaganda which always seeks to discredit anyone who dares to expose it's brutality.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Still. Studies should provide an explanation.

They did, of course they did, you just didn't look very hard.

https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2824%2902678-3

This was six months ago too, all deaths since June are not included.

To think that the Palestinians spend precious time making up false death claims is beyond absurd, these people are being slaughtered 24/7 have little food, water or medicines. They are living under plastic sheets in the pissing rain with no sanitation and their hospitals are being raided and doctors even taken hostage.

Nobody in those circumstances is going to make up claims and nobody should believe the Zionist regime.

 

[Shusha]

We should treat the estimate of 64,000 as of last June as reasonable, based on the data available and not keep pandering to Zionist propaganda which always seeks to discredit anyone who dares to expose it's brutality.

We should NOT treat an estimate of 64,000 as reasonable if those presenting the data do not provide an explanation for how they arrived at 34, 995 of those estimated deaths.