Israel the Monster: Mass-murder of Innocents

[Annie]

From an article on the conflict by Nir Rosen, an Israeli jew:

"When you drop bombs on populated areas knowing there will be some "collateral" civilian damage, but accepting it as worth it, then it is deliberate...taking of innocent human life"

The fact that their tactically guided missiles' aim is targeted on a loose military (and in reality, they're intentionally targeting police stations too) target MAKES NO DIFFERENCE because they know that the destruction will not be confined to military personnel. They are intentionally killing innocent people too.

This is the same irrational, jingoistic justification offered by all violent regimes with power to differentiate themselves from their Other, their weaker and resourceless Enemy, about how their actions that cause massive destruction and senseless death are nothing like the Other's actions that cause massive destruction and senseless death.

The only difference is that Israel is killing way more Palestinians than vice-versa, so in this instance and this particular moment, they're more in the wrong and need to ******* stop murdering children right the **** now.

ANYONE who can justify the intentional killing of innocent people is an immoral ******* bastard who has no place in the company of real human beings.

Nir Rosen is an American born Iranian-American.

 

[Sunni Man]

Nir Rosen is an American born Iranian-American.

So what's wrong with that Annie??

 

[Godboy]

"When you drop bombs on populated areas knowing there will be some "collateral" civilian damage, but accepting it as worth it, then it is deliberate...taking of innocent human life"

Unless you can provide evidence of a war that has ever happened when civilians did not get killed, i guess every country who has ever fought a war is guilty of this. This is the terrible fact about war, civilians die.

What ever country YOU affiliate yourself with, is with out a doubt, guilty of this too.

 

[Annie]

So what's wrong with that Annie??

He's not an 'Israeli Jew' as purported in the post I quoted by Quentin

 

[Godboy]

ANYONE who can justify the intentional killing of innocent people is an immoral ******* bastard who has no place in the company of real human beings.

So then you hate the Palestinians with us now too? Those guys love intentional killings of innocent people. They were soooo happy when 9/11 happened.

 

[QUENTIN]

Nir Rosen is an American born Iranian-American.

That site was linked as written by "Israeli-American journalist Nir Rosen". Perhaps it was a mistake on their part and they meant "Iranian-American"? He is Jewish, but I see he is Iranian and born in America. Apologies for the error in title.

This changes nothing about the total validity of what he said of course.

 

[Annie]

That site was linked as written by "Israeli-American journalist Nir Rosen". Perhaps it was a mistake on their part and they meant "Iranian-American"? He is Jewish, but I see he is Iranian and born in America. Apologies for the error in title.

This changes nothing about the total validity of what he said of course.

It took a few moments of searching, btw I found NOTHING that says he's Jewish, so cool if you can come up with some proof of that.

Why significant? Oh how about Iran being the real player, with Hamas as a willing proxy.

 

[QUENTIN]

Unless you can provide evidence of a war that has ever happened when civilians did not get killed, i guess every country who has ever fought a war is guilty of this. This is the terrible fact about war, civilians die.

What ever country YOU affiliate yourself with, is with out a doubt, guilty of this too.

Yes, yes it is, yes they are.

Which is why war is an unnecessary evil and any defense of it is monstrous, since it necessarily dictates defending and justifying intentionally killing innocent people.

To justify a war is to say "Murder isn't wrong."

I affiliate myself with no country. I'm a human being, not a national. I happen, by coincidence and circumstance beyond my control to be born in a particular place (America) just like anyone else.

 

[QUENTIN]

So then you hate the Palestinians with us now too? Those guys love intentional killings of innocent people. They were soooo happy when 9/11 happened.

I don't hate "Palestinians." I don't hate "Israelis." 9/11 was an unjustifiable tragedy because innocent people died. Bombing campaigns in Afghanistan are an unjustifiable tragedy because innocent people die. The bombings of Pearl Harbor and London were an unjustifiable tragedy because innocent people died. The bombing of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Dresden were an unjustifiable tragedy because innocent people died. The common equation is innocent people, what country they happened to be born and residing in is immaterial. It's a thin veneer used to mask their worth as people.

I am disgusted by anyone who justifies the intentional taking of innocent human life. That happens to include a lot of people who are Palestinian, Israeli, American, Russian, Chinese, Iranian, etc, etc...

I'm not pro-Palestine. I'm anti-murder. Of anyone, by anyone. So should we all be.

The understanding that killing people is wrong is about as basic and fundamental to humanity as anything gets.

 

[Annie]

It took a few moments of searching, btw I found NOTHING that says he's Jewish, so cool if you can come up with some proof of that.

Why significant? Oh how about Iran being the real player, with Hamas as a willing proxy.

Ok, I found he is. His father Iranian, mother Jewish. Iraqi Bloggers Central: The Education of Nir Rosen

 

[QUENTIN]

It took a few moments of searching, btw I found NOTHING that says he's Jewish, so cool if you can come up with some proof of that.

Why significant? Oh how about Iran being the real player, with Hamas as a willing proxy.

Significant that he's not Israeli, agreed. The Iranian thing doesn't matter at all though. A fact is a fact regardless of who says it. If Hitler said "2+2=4" that's not suddenly untrue because he said it. "Collateral damage" is nothing but a euphemism for "murdered innocent people". Knowing that aiming at an ostensibly military target will also kill lots of civilians is no different than not being able to afford the technology and not knowing where you're aiming and killing lots of civilians. Deciding that whatever your cause is justifies other innocent people's death is the action. Intentionally killed innocent people are the result.

Nir Rosen is a Jew:

Iraqi Bloggers Central: The Education of Nir Rosen


As for a true Israeli Jew's account of this look no further than Haaretz, the popular Jewish newspaper and writer Gideon Levy:

The neighborhood bully strikes again - Haaretz - Israel News

"Once again, Israel's violent responses, even if there is justification for them, exceed all proportion and cross every red line of humaneness, morality, international law and wisdom.What began yesterday in Gaza is a war crime and the foolishness of a country. History's bitter irony: A government that went to a futile war two months after its establishment - today nearly everyone acknowledges as much - embarks on another doomed war two months before the end of its term."

 

[Godboy]

Which is why war is an unnecessary evil and any defense of it is monstrous, since it necessarily dictated defending and justifying intentionally killing innocent people.

Thank goodness there arent too many people like you in the world. Hitler may have seen his dream fullfilled if YOU had been in charge of any of the Allied countries.

Once you take the position of considering all war evil, your opinions on war no longer matters, because you obviously dont know what your talking about. If you cant recognize the need for war in certain situations, you are dangerously naive.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Godboy
...and since we are on the subject, Israel does not immdeiately kill any native who tries to return to their "place of origin". You and i, and every other person on these boards knows Israel doesnt immediately kill people who try to enter their country. Can we please at least keep this discussion honest?

Godboy,

You shouldn't be saying this to me.

José is a poor "cucaracha" who runs a much greater risk of being shot trying to enter the US than Israel

Tell this to the relatives of almost 3.000 palestinians who got a bullet in their heads trying to return to their towns and villages from 48 to 51 when fences were built around Gaza and the West Bank.

With any luck, they can even show their photographs and graves to you.

 

[toomuchtime_]

From an article on the conflict by Nir Rosen, an Israeli jew:

"When you drop bombs on populated areas knowing there will be some "collateral" civilian damage, but accepting it as worth it, then it is deliberate...taking of innocent human life"

The fact that their tactically guided missiles' aim is targeted on a loose military (and in reality, they're intentionally targeting police stations too) target MAKES NO DIFFERENCE because they know that the destruction will not be confined to military personnel. They are intentionally killing innocent people too.

This is the same irrational, jingoistic justification offered by all violent regimes with power to differentiate themselves from their Other, their weaker and resourceless Enemy, about how their actions that cause massive destruction and senseless death are nothing like the Other's actions that cause massive destruction and senseless death.

The only difference is that Israel is killing way more Palestinians than vice-versa, so in this instance and this particular moment, they're more in the wrong and need to ******* stop murdering children right the **** now.

ANYONE who can justify the intentional killing of innocent people is an immoral ******* bastard who has no place in the company of real human beings.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Why is it important to you that the writer is a Jew? If the argument stands, it stands, no matter what the race or religion of the writer, and in if doesn't stand, it gains nothing from the fact that a Jew wrote it. In this case, the argument fails. Once the writer concedes that the intent is to destroy a legitimate military target, it makes no sense to then say the intent is to kill civilians. If the civilians were not there, would Israel still hit the target? Yes. If the target were not there, would Israel still hit the civilians? No. Therefore the intent is clearly to hit the target and not the civilians.

I understand the writer is seeking the strongest condemnation of the bombing he can find and in his passion he is seeking to avoid moral complexities that my dilute the expression of his feelings, but the strongest condemnation one can make honestly is that Israel found the target to be of sufficient value that this number of civilian casualties was acceptable, and the nations that signed the Geneva Accords agreed that civilian casualties that are the unavoidable consequence of the pursuit of legitimate military objectives are acceptable.

The moral question, which is what I believe this writer was, in his muddled way, trying to address, is more difficult. Certainly, we can all think of cases where taking out a target would save more lives than it would cost and would therefore be morally justified or even cases where taking out that target would so advance the resolution of the conflict so that the suffering being endured by those living would be so much lessened that the cost in civilian casualties would seem to be justified. But in the heat of battle and operating with less than perfect information about the value of the target and the probable cost in civilian casualties - and with one's moral sensibilities perhaps coarsened by the knowledge one is fighting an enemy that has for decades almost exclusively targeted your own civilians without caring whether they were supporters of their cause, as the writer of the article may be, or not as long as they were Israelis or Jews - mistakes and misjudgments will be made which will later be regretted but which cannot be undone. Once it has been decided that the consequences of not going to war are intolerable, such mistakes and misjudgments are unavoidable but a very different matter from intentionally targeting civilians.

 

[Godboy]

Tell this to the relatives of almost 3.000 palestinians who got a bullet in their heads trying to return to their towns and villages from 48 to 51 when fences were built around Gaza and the West Bank.

Like i asked before, cant we keep this discussion truthful? You make the claim that Israel kills any palestinian who tries to enter their country, yet you can only provide a one sided description of events that happened 60 years ago as proof of your claim!

 

[José]

Originally posted by Godboy
Like i asked before, cant we keep this discussion truthful? You make the claim that Israel kills any palestinian who tries to enter their country, yet you can only provide a one sided description of events that happened 60 years ago as proof of your claim!

Of course it happened 60 years ago!!

Unarmed palestinian civilians learned their lesson well:

If you don't want an extra orifice in your head, you'd better keep a safe distance from the Israeli border!!

 

[Godboy]

Originally posted by Godboy
Like i asked before, cant we keep this discussion truthful? You make the claim that Israel kills any palestinian who tries to enter their country, yet you can only provide a one sided description of events that happened 60 years ago as proof of your claim!

Of course it happened 60 years ago!!

Unarmed palestinian civilians learned their lesson well:

If you don't want an extra orifice in your head, you'd better keep a safe distance from the Israeli border!

You made the claim that Israel shoots anyone in the head that tries to enter their country. This is a false statement and you know it. Your position on this conflict is weak, and that is why you have to try and resort to lies.

You, and people like you should realize it doesnt matter if you spin your lies, because the truth is obvious to the entire world, and thats why the Palestinians are going to pay a heavy price for their terrorist activites. The dug their own graves when they elected Hamas, and now its time to pay for that mistake.

Talking to these fanatics has done nothing for decades. The reprisal attacks for rockets being launched at Israel have done nothing. Maybe if they see their city flames, they will think twice about trying to murder jews in the future.

 

[dilloduck]

You made the claim that Israel shoots anyone in the head that tries to enter their country. This is a false statement and you know it. Your position on this conflict is weak, and that is why you have to try and resort to lies.

You, and people like you should realize it doesnt matter if you spin your lies, because the tuth is obvious to the entire world, and thats why the Palestinians are going to pay a heavy price for their terrorist activites. The dug their own graves when they elected Hamas, and now its time to pay for that mistake.

Talking to these fanatics has done nothing for decades. The reprisal attacks for rockets being launched at Israel have done nothing. Maybe if they see their city flames, they will think twice about trying to murder jews in the future.

I doubt it--how many times have they seen it already ?

 

[eots]

May We No Longer Be Silent

.”
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

The title of my article comes from the sermon of the Episcopal Bishop of Washington DC, John Bryson Chane, delivered on October 5, 2008, at St. Columba Church. The bishop’s eyes were opened to Israel’s persecution of Palestinians by his recent trip to Palestine. In his sermon he called on “politicians seeking the highest office in [our] land” to find the courage to “speak out and condemn violations of human rights and religious freedom denied to Palestinian Christians and Muslims” by the state of Israel.

Bishop Chane’s courage was to no avail. When America’s new leader of “change” was informed of Israel’s massive air attack on the Gaza Ghetto, an area of 139 square miles where Israel confines 1.4 million Arabs and tightly controls the inflow of all resources--food, medicine, water, energy--America’s president-elect Obama had “no comment.”

According to the Jerusalem Post ( December 26), “at 11:30 a.m., more than 50 fighter jets and attack helicopters swept into Gazan airspace and dropped more than 100 bombs on 50 targets. . . . Thirty minutes later, a second wave of 60 jets and helicopters struck at 60 targets . . . More than 170 targets were hit by IAF aircraft throughout the day. At least 230 Gazans were killed and over 780 were wounded . .

CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
.”

 

[Xenophon]

The Israel election is coming, Olmert will punt to the new gov, and bad news for hamas, it will probaly be a hard right gov lead by Bibi.