Israel dismisses 2 officers over deadly drone strikes on aid workers in Gaza

[eagle1462010]

Israel’s Genocide Must Not Go Unpunished, Speakers Say as Civil Society Organizations Conference Working on Question of Palestine Concludes | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

UN.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The death count is pretty accurate and likely under counted given the number of bodies unrecovered. The only caveat (and my “liberal” states this when it reports), is that Hamas doesn’t seperate civilian deaths and fighter deaths in the count.

Not a single word of truth in sentence. There is no calculation by which you can begin with the bodies the UN has found that leads to the conclusion Hamas figures are "pretty accurate," however, there is substantial evidence that Hamas has been fabricating much of what it has reported. For example,

Hamas's Gaza death toll is exaggerated or faked, statistics expert claims

Double-checking the data with independent verification will be impossible due to the lack of independent sources in Gaza.

www.jpost.com

"He also highlights that by Hamas's own admission, 6,000 Hamas fighters have been killed, which if combined with Hamas's data on deaths, shows that 20% of the total deaths are combatant while 70% are women and children. This implies that "Israel is somehow not killing noncombatant men, or else Hamas is claiming that almost all the men in Gaza are Hamas fighters."

 

[Shusha]

And, I disagree with your assertion that Israel has tried very hard to limit civilian deaths.

I feel as though this deserves some more space to understand your view.

 

[JoeB131]

Israel is conducting a ground war, which is much more dangerous to themselves, in order to limit civilian deaths. They have paused operations to allow them to escape. They delayed due to Ramadan.

This is admirable given what HAMAS did on October 7th, and that the majority of Palis are supportive of it. In fact, it’s quite remarkable to take care to limit the death count of the very people who cheer for your own murder.

It's okay; they are committing POLITE Genocide.

But it's still genocide.

 

[Coyote]

Israel is conducting a ground war, which is much more dangerous to themselves, in order to limit civilian deaths. They have paused operations to allow them to escape. They delayed due to Ramadan.

Israel is conducting a ground war for two reasons: it has completed the intense bombing phase and the only way to finish mopping up Hamas is on the ground.

Those pauses were the result of intense pressure from Israel’s allies.

This is admirable given what HAMAS did on October 7th, and that the majority of Palis are supportive of it. In fact, it’s quite remarkable to take care to limit the death count of the very people who cheer for your own murder.

Not much care is being taken given the overall numbers in comparison to other urban conflicts.

 

[eagle1462010]

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1227142760/unrwa-un-agency-gaza-hamas-employees-oct-7-attack

UN workers Gaza took part in the attack.

Please tell me Coyote you havent seen the UN bias against Israel.

Please tell me what you would do if fired at almost every single day for 2 decades???

 

[Shusha]

... you really don't get a claim anymore over the people who stayed through multiple invasions and crusades.

Wow. You don't have a coherent argument, do you?

 

[Weatherman2020]

This was paramount. This was optically the worst incident, since Oct 7th itself of course. Conducted against the same charity group who were there for Israel after Oct 7th and their time in need.

It will also serve as a serious reminder to the IDF leadership, "get it right and control your men and decisions or you will face real consequences".

We need Israel to bring light to the darkness, not to walk into the darkness itself.

Israel dismisses 2 officers over deadly drone strikes on aid workers in Gaza

More than 220 humanitarian workers have been killed in the conflict, according to the U.N.

www.thestar.com

TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — The Israeli military said Friday that it has dismissed two officers and reprimanded three others for their roles in drone strikes in Gaza that killed seven aid workers on a food-delivery mission, saying they had mishandled critical information and violated the army’s rules of engagement.

First time in war friendly fire has occurred!

Israel needs to say nobody in Gaza until Gaza unconditionally surrenders.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It was unclear what said, thus I ASKED a question.


I haven’t yelled “genicide”. This is a term with a very specific definition that I don’t use lightly as you do.





Hamas doesn’t care about the Palestinians, just its own agenda.

No, you didn't ask a question about what she meant, you asked if she was suggesting a war crime. Saying it would be best if Egypt took them in does not in any way suggest Israel would forcibly remove them.

 

[eagle1462010]

Link please.




It’s essentially been flattened and bunker busting bombs were used.

Then why would the IDF be going into tunnela if they were blown up??

 

[eagle1462010]

Israel is conducting a ground war for two reasons: it has completed the intense bombing phase and the only way to finish mopping up Hamas is on the ground.

Those pauses were the result of intense pressure from Israel’s allies.


Not much care is being taken given the overall numbers in comparison to other urban conflicts.

Compared to say SYRIA???

 

[Shusha]

Not much care is being taken given the overall numbers in comparison to other urban conflicts.

Oh THAT needs a fact check!

 

[Coyote]

I feel as though this deserves some more space to understand your view.

My view is that Israel has been cavelier in regards to civilians in Gaza. What it has done has been largely a product of intense pressure from its allies. They’ve been willing to accept extremely high rates of “collateral” damage just to get a relatively low level target. In comparison with other urban conflicts, the civilian casualty rates in just 6 months far exceed those of other conflicts in a year. Look at the most recent push into Rafah…they no plan for what to do with the millions of civilians they had pushed southward who were now concentrated in Rafah. None. What finally emerged seems half baked and came out only under pressure from its strongest allies. In this regard, Israel is not being held to a unique standard, it is the same standard any country should be held to.

 

[shockedcanadian]

First time in war friendly fire has occurred!

Israel needs to say nobody in Gaza until Gaza unconditionally surrenders.

It was a horrible event and the IDF leadership know this which is why some were sent home, others demoted.

You guys don't follow this as I do with European media, the German government is under pressure, even facing possible ICJ charges because they provided weapons (oddly, they wont go after others). Aussie government is demanding answers. The British PM is under immense pressure.

Israel has to be the light in this war, not the darkness.

 

[Weatherman2020]

It was a horrible event and the IDF leadership know this which is why some were sent home, others demoted.

You guys don't follow this as I do with European media, the German government is under pressure, even facing possible ICJ charges because they provided weapons (oddly, they wont go after others). Aussie government is demanding answers. The British PM is under immense pressure.

Israel has to be the light in this war, not the darkness.

Europe is and always has been antisemitic. Your sources are biased.

Total war like Sherman and get it over.

 

[Shusha]

My view is that Israel has been cavelier in regards to civilians in Gaza.

Yep. I get that you feel that way, I'm looking for some support for that view.

What it has done has been largely a product of intense pressure from its allies.

Shrug. Maybe.

They’ve been willing to accept extremely high rates of “collateral” damage just to get a relatively low level target.

Both these things need some further definition. What is an acceptable rate of incidental harm (or proportionality)? What constitutes a "low level" target? What formula are you using to calculate these things? How do you know what formula Israel uses? How do you compare the formula Israel uses to the formula used in other conflicts?

In comparison with other urban conflicts, the civilian casualty rates in just 6 months far exceed those of other conflicts in a year.

I'm not convinced that this is true, but assuming I accept it for the sake of this argument... There are fundamental complications in this particular war which affect the civilian casualty rates. Yes? Examples: use of children as active participants in the hostilities; widespread placement of military objectives in the vicinity of protected places; active prevention by third parties to allow evacuation to a safe location; underground infrastructure; holding of civilian hostages; certain religious beliefs. These are unique to the situation in Gaza. Yes?

 

[Lisa558]

Israel is conducting a ground war for two reasons: it has completed the intense bombing phase and the only way to finish mopping up Hamas is on the ground.

Those pauses were the result of intense pressure from Israel’s allies.


Not much care is being taken given the overall numbers in comparison to other urban conflicts.

1) How do you know what the numbers are? Israel hasn’t reported it.

2) It’s unfair to compare it to other urban conflicts because others do not do their utmost to INCREASE the death toll of their own civilians, which is what Hamas continues to do.

 

[Coyote]

Oh THAT needs a fact check!

Sure.

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/27/gaza-civilian-deaths-israel-conflict-zones

 

[Coyote]

1) How do you know what the numbers are? Israel hasn’t reported it.

Israel only reports militants killed. The Gaza ministry reports both (unseperated). I consider them equally reliable or unreliable.

2) It’s unfair to compare it to other urban conflicts because others do not do their utmost to INCREASE the death toll of their own civilians, which is what Hamas continues to do.

I disagree. I seriously doubt ISIS is very concerned with civilians.

 

[Lisa558]

Sure.

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/27/gaza-civilian-deaths-israel-conflict-zones

Axios is quite liberal. Here’s another source that reports on the unreliability of the HAMAS reports. (And remember….these deaths are on HAMAS. They could return the hostages and surrender tonight. Any normal people would.)

Gaza Fatality Data Has Become Completely Unreliable

Given the discrepancies in official Palestinian counts and their growing reliance on questionable data from media reports, the credibility gaps revealed by a previous Washington Institute study have become yawning chasms.

www.washingtoninstitute.org