Israel dismisses 2 officers over deadly drone strikes on aid workers in Gaza

[Lisa558]

If you can’t address the argument attack spelling.





I’m not drawing a parallel between Jews and anyone. I am talking about a NATION with its own political and national interests at stake, and its own need to control the narrative. Why should we take their word as gospel when they have been known to lie as well? You make it about Jews when it’s about nations.

Because Islamic terrorists are known liars. And you are comparing the NATION of Israel to that of Islamic savage terrorists. Shameful.

 

[Coyote]

It is inappropriate for a mod to falsely call a poster a “racist” simply because I point out that it is antisemitic to draw a parallel between Israeli Jews and HAMAS terrorists.

Stop being disengenius. If you are going to call or imply someone is antisemitic, then the consequences are on you. You also seem to ignore the fact that Israel is a nation of more than just Jews…you know that right?

 

[Coyote]

Because Islamic terrorists are known liars. And you are comparing the NATION of Israel to that of Islamic savage terrorists. Shameful.

Everyone lies when it comes to nations Lisa. There is no such thing as nobility when it comes to national or political self interest. The question is only who lies the most or who is lying at any one time.

 

[Lisa558]

Stop being disengenius. If you are going to call or imply someone is antisemitic, then the consequences are on you. You also seem to ignore the fact that Israel is a nation of more than just Jews…you know that right?

I am saying that people who draw a parallel between the nation of Israel, who is trying to route out the terrorists who have threatened to keep having Oct 7th over and over until all Jews are dead and Islamic terrorists who went on a house-hunting expedition to find and torture to death every Jewish man, woman, child, and infant is driven by antisemitism.

So is anyone who uses the word “genocide” or “genocidal tendencies” in describing Israel’s actions. It is akin to blood libel. If Israel wanted to genocide the Palestinians, it would have been done so within days.

 

[Lisa558]

Everyone lies when it comes to nations Lisa. There is no such thing as nobility when it comes to national or political self interest. The question is only who lies the most or who is lying at any one time.

HAMAS lies the most. Your continued parallel between a nation that just experienced a massacre so heinous it makes the Russian pograms look like a day ar the beach AND the Islamic terrorists who conducted such a savage, brutal massacre INTENDED to kill as many innocent Jews is….well…..despicable.

 

[Shusha]

It is a good way to way to judge when the complicating factors are similar but the casualty rates significantly disproportionate.

Well, I am not at all convinced that the complicating factors are similar, but even so, I am extremely uncomfortable with reducing the complexity of urban warfare in different environments, under different circumstances, to a raw number of acceptability. The idea that "you should be able to dismantle a non-state terrorist government with fewer than 10,000 civilian casualties in nine months or less" sounds both silly and disgusting. I am especially reluctant to do so while the war is actively in progress. And I reject outright that the raw number is evidence of intent.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Europe is and always has been antisemitic. Your sources are biased.

Total war like Sherman and get it over.

Israel has lost 600 soldiers, many of them quite young. This has come at a high price. It cannot be and will not be for nought. I do not wish even one innocent person, be they Islamic or Jewish to suffer, I want justice to be served by those who murdered and tortured.

What is meant by "for nought", includes Israels reputation and the Abrahamic teachings that guide many of us.

They will win. We need to support them. This support does not include poor decision making that ends in the death of humanitarian workers.

It is very difficult to win a war taking the high road, it requires confronting evil in the face of the death of your soldiers. It is what separates the Good Guys from the Bad Guys. It's why I instinctively felt that the hospital wasn't hit by an Israel missile even in the face of media reports to the contrary. I was sickened when the U.S hit a hospital in the M.E and I didn't want to believe it would happen again.

This is where IDF leadership has to be honourable and convey to soldiers their mission. Be stoic and know that you represent your people and all the mitzvot from G-d.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Israel had no plan for Rafah until international pressure made it unavoidable.


Biden administration never changed anything. From the start it was a request for a credible plan. Period. Stop lying.

You display your antisemitism in nearly every post stating that anything Israel does right is because of "external pressure" implying that in your opinion Israelis are like mad dogs the must be kept on a leash, when all the facts of this war tell just the opposite story.

I am not the one lying about the Biden administration. In your first sentence you, yourself said Israel had no plan, which is exactly what Biden said when the subject of Rafah first came up. Now the Biden administration has used a variety of adjectives to try to justify its opposition to destroying the remnants of Hamas in Rafah, all the while babbling about some unspecified "other ways" to handle Hamas, but we all know that the only way to destroy Hamas is to take Rafah.

Now Biden has a detailed plan, including maps and numbers and is seeing Israel take strong actions to make it work and knows Israel was able to evacuate 900,000 Palestinians from the North and we all know he will still object to the operation.

 

[Lisa558]

The fact no Democrat- Biden on down - is demanding Hamas surrender and release their victims says it all.

True. They’ve turned the terrorists into victims, and the victims into terrorists. All to get Muslim votes, and the antisemites are thrilled.

 

[JoeB131]

Wow. You don't have a coherent argument, do you?

Sure I do.

You had people who lived in a place 2000 years ago.

SOme stayed, and changed as the region changed.

Others left for other places, intermarried, learned new languages, and had little or nothing to do with the land they left.

The people who stayed have a legit claim. The people who left don't.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Sure I do.

You had people who lived in a place 2000 years ago.

SOme stayed, and changed as the region changed.

Others left for other places, intermarried, learned new languages, and had little or nothing to do with the land they left.

The people who stayed have a legit claim. The people who left don't.

If they come back, they do. What happens today is about who is there today, not about who was there 2000 years ago. You can inherit private property but you can't inherit a nation.

 

[JoeB131]

If they come back, they do. What happens today is about who is there today, not about who was there 2000 years ago. You can inherit private property but you can't inherit a nation.

Except that nation hadn't existed for 3000 years.

Can I recreate the Aztec Empire? Even though I've never lived there, I've always felt a kinship to them. And then I can legally cut the hearts out of my enemy's chest!

 

[toomuchtime_]

Except that nation hadn't existed for 3000 years.

Can I recreate the Aztec Empire? Even though I've never lived there, I've always felt a kinship to them. And then I can legally cut the hearts out of my enemy's chest!

When the Jews returned to the ME they created a new state of Israel, they didn't try to rebuild the ancient state.

 

[Shusha]

The people who stayed have a legit claim. The people who left don't.

I will remember you said that, and call you out for any inconsistency.

 

[Shusha]

Can I recreate the Aztec Empire?

Probably not the Empire, and almost certainly not YOU, but the Aztec (Nahua) people absolutely have the right of self-determination and national sovereignty in their ancestral homeland should they seek it. And include anyone they wish in their collective.

Even though I've never lived there, I've always felt a kinship to them.

Really? Do you speak the language? Do you follow their religious traditions? Do you adopt their values, philosophies and codes of law? Do you celebrate or commemorate their holidays? Are you familiar with their history, their culture, their myths and stories? Do you wear their style of dress, especially the sacred style? Do you adopt their rituals for life celebrations, end-of-life celebrations? Would you go to war to protect them the way you would your own family? Do you teach their ways to your children, in order to preserve them for the next generation?

You are making a mockery of something you do not understand. It is vile.

 

[Shusha]

You display your antisemitism in nearly every post stating that anything Israel does right is because of "external pressure" implying that in your opinion Israelis are like mad dogs the must be kept on a leash, when all the facts of this war tell just the opposite story.

This is a very fair point. I've been going on a bit recently about Palestinians' moral agency and choice and I've been fighting against the notion that every immoral act committed by the Palestinians is somehow the fault of Israel, as if the Palestinians have no moral agency. But it works as well the other way around: fighting against the notion that every moral act committed by Israel is somehow caused by another actor, rather than Israel's own moral agency.

 

[eagle1462010]

shrug

9 month campaign in Mosul to root out ISIS resulted in 9-11,000 civilian casualties.

According to Israel, as of the end of February, they had killed between 9,000 and 11,000 Hamas fighters.

At that time, the total death toll had exceeded 30,000.

So, if we take the figures at face value, subtract fighters from the total, you have between 19,000-21,000 civilians killed in 5 months compared to Mosul in 9 months.




Is that unique? Do you truly think ISIS did not use child soldiers…or place its military objectives among civilians? Holding hostages? Religious beliefs? Preventing civilians from leaving?

These are NOT unique to Gaza by any means.

Mosul was destroyed for the most part, but people were able to flee

Egypt refuses to allow them in. No where to go

 

[Lisa558]

Mosul was destroyed for the most part, but people were able to flee

Egypt refuses to allow them in. No where to go

And you’ll notice that the antisemites complain that the Jews have “imprisoned” the Gazans - after Ocrober 7th, we see why it’s necessary - but never mention that the Arabs in Egypt have walled them off too.

 

[JoeB131]

Really? Do you speak the language?

No, and neither did the Zionist Squatters. They didn't speak Hebrew or Aramaic, they spoke - wait for it - Yiddish (which is a corrupted form of German)

When the Jews returned to the ME they created a new state of Israel, they didn't try to rebuild the ancient state.

Except there were already people living there.

The Noxious Lie of Zionism is "a land without a people for a people without a land".

 

[toomuchtime_]

No, and neither did the Zionist Squatters. They didn't speak Hebrew or Aramaic, they spoke - wait for it - Yiddish (which is a corrupted form of German)



Except there were already people living there.

The Noxious Lie of Zionism is "a land without a people for a people without a land".

And when the Jews returned to Palestine there were two peoples living there.