Islamic war tactics in 7th-10th century

[Yurt]

I have been trying to do some research on Islam's war tactics from about 7th century to about 10th century. This is just for my own info. I am looking primarily for how they pacified the occupied citizens and how they dealt with any insurgencies.

The sources I find seem to indicate that most conquered people liked them as they were better than the current rulers. I find mostly opinion sites that show that Islam really did kill anyone who resisted them.

Any help would be great. Also, if anyone wants to talk about their methods versus our methods that would be fine too.

 

[IControlThePast]

I have been trying to do some research on Islam's war tactics from about 7th century to about 10th century. This is just for my own info. I am looking primarily for how they pacified the occupied citizens and how they dealt with any insurgencies.

The sources I find seem to indicate that most conquered people liked them as they were better than the current rulers. I find mostly opinion sites that show that Islam really did kill anyone who resisted them.

Any help would be great. Also, if anyone wants to talk about their methods versus our methods that would be fine too.

I know that there was eventually a huge massacre of Muslims in Spain throughout history. One thing I learned about tactics was that they were reluctant to use long range weapons, like Cannons, as they thought those weapons were more cowardly than close range combat. That and a lack of order within the religion are supposedly major reasons for downfall. If I am not mistaken, back in the 7th to 10th century Islam was much more dominant than "Western Society."

 

[Said1]

I have been trying to do some research on Islam's war tactics from about 7th century to about 10th century. This is just for my own info. I am looking primarily for how they pacified the occupied citizens and how they dealt with any insurgencies.

The sources I find seem to indicate that most conquered people liked them as they were better than the current rulers. I find mostly opinion sites that show that Islam really did kill anyone who resisted them.

Any help would be great. Also, if anyone wants to talk about their methods versus our methods that would be fine too.

Try searching the periods per region, like Egypt for example. The different dynasties, rulers and religious figures will give you some good insight as to how they maintained control.

 

[manu1959]

Try searching the periods per region, like Egypt for example. The different dynasties, rulers and religious figures will give you some good insight as to how they maintained control.

SOP was "death to those that oppose us"

 

[Said1]

SOP was "death to those that oppose us"

What's "SOP"?

 

[manu1959]

What's "SOP"?

standard operating procedure

 

[Said1]

standard operating procedure

DOH!

 

[Yurt]

somethiing interesting I learned about they way they treated prisoners of war:

women/children were slaves (woman often concubines: READ rape!)

men: were let go only IF accept muslim or traded for muslim prisoner.

No wonder they fear and claim we are doing to this to them on a wide scale basis, because they would have done it and it would be OK.

I am trying to find how they dealt with an insurgency. So far I have been out of luck. My internet prowess at finding things online is not as good as Kathianne's. :baby:

 

[Said1]

I am trying to find how they dealt with an insurgency. So far I have been out of luck. My internet prowess at finding things online is not as good as Kathianne's. :baby:

Revolts were squashed, participants were either incorperated as slaves or killed. The biggest threats to their rulers tended to come from within. Like I said, search the history by region.

 

[Arabian]

I have been trying to do some research on Islam's war tactics from about 7th century to about 10th century. This is just for my own info. I am looking primarily for how they pacified the occupied citizens and how they dealt with any insurgencies.

The sources I find seem to indicate that most conquered people liked them as they were better than the current rulers. I find mostly opinion sites that show that Islam really did kill anyone who resisted them.

Any help would be great. Also, if anyone wants to talk about their methods versus our methods that would be fine too.

all what you said is right but i wanna add something
about taking children and women as a slave,,
i wont deny this,, but it was something like mmmm
tradition if you can say ,, it was done by every one the king of Europe and Asia,,
this a tradition in these ages

and about the war prisoners,, they deal perfect with them according to the UN laws,, although there werent such organizations in this period , but they worked with the qur'an ,,
no gawatemalla no abou ghareib prisons or jews prisons

 

[Yurt]

all what you said is right but i wanna add something
about taking children and women as a slave,,
i wont deny this,, but it was something like mmmm
tradition if you can say ,, it was done by every one the king of Europe and Asia,,
this a tradition in these ages

and about the war prisoners,, they deal perfect with them according to the UN laws,, although there werent such organizations in this period , but they worked with the qur'an ,,
no gawatemalla no abou ghareib prisons or jews prisons

Aah, so you admit that Islam acted according to tradition. Very good.

Now you really need to think about Muhammad's "inspiration" from God.

Will look forward to your response.

 

[freeandfun1]

I have been trying to do some research on Islam's war tactics from about 7th century to about 10th century. This is just for my own info. I am looking primarily for how they pacified the occupied citizens and how they dealt with any insurgencies.

The sources I find seem to indicate that most conquered people liked them as they were better than the current rulers. I find mostly opinion sites that show that Islam really did kill anyone who resisted them.

Any help would be great. Also, if anyone wants to talk about their methods versus our methods that would be fine too.

I just came across this:

Bostom then proceeds to bolster his argument for the violent tenets of the jihad enterprise with rich historical evidence pertaining to Islamic conquests against the infidel world. He quotes both Muslim and non-Muslim historians who have given accounts of pre-modern massacres carried out in the name of Islam, e.g. in Tripoli (mid-7th century), Fayyum and Nikiou (7th century), Toledo (711-712 C.E.), Thessaloniki (904 C.E.), Edessa (1144-1146 C.E.), Antioch (1144, 1146 C.E.), North Africa and Spain (from January 1148), various Hindu regions (end of the 13th century), southern India (mid-14th century) and northern India (1397-99 C.E.), Constantinople (1453 C.E.) and across the Muslim Mughal Empire (1483-1530). These massacres, many of them gargantuan in dimension, included mass decapitations, torture, burning and slaughtering. These butcheries, pace Akyol, made no distinctions between combatants and non-combatants, war criminals and innocent citizenry, and men, women and children.

Here is a link to the entire piece. Looks interesting!

Debating Islam’s “Golden Age”

It looks like a pretty interesting website. I am going to have to read some of the articles. One of them says that true Islam only resides in America. I thought that was interesting....

Free Muslims Against Terrorism

 

[Annie]

all what you said is right but i wanna add something
about taking children and women as a slave,,
i wont deny this,, but it was something like mmmm
tradition if you can say ,, it was done by every one the king of Europe and Asia,,
this a tradition in these ages

and about the war prisoners,, they deal perfect with them according to the UN laws,, although there werent such organizations in this period , but they worked with the qur'an ,,
no gawatemalla no abou ghareib prisons or jews prisons

I understand the issues of slavery/war in the past. Even the not so recent past of 100 years give or take. But today? Only Islam:

http://www.berkeleydaily.org/text/article.cfm?issue=04-29-05&storyID=21279

Author Calls for Islamic Reforms During UC Talk By MICHAEL KATZ
Special to the Planet (04-29-05)

The suicide hijackers behind the 9/11 attacks were reportedly each promised “70 virgins in Paradise.” But would they have proceeded if they’d realized that their recruiters might only be offering 70 white raisins?
The Koran and Hadith (Muslim gospel) passages about the rewards to “martyrs” can be read either way, according to a linguistic historian quoted in Irshad Manji’s book, The Trouble with Islam Today: A Muslim’s Call for Reform in Her Faith. And among the book’s central points is the lethal danger of interpreting scriptural metaphor literally.

“Every religion has its share of literalists,” Manji acknowledged in an April 19 talk at UC Berkeley’s Pauley Ballroom. “American Christianity has its evangelicals, some of whom still populate the highest office in the land. Jews have their ultra-Orthodox. ... Even Buddhists have fundamentalists.”

But “the trouble” with her own faith, Manji said, is that “only within Islam today is literalism mainstream worldwide.”

Even moderate Muslims, Manji said, often believe that because the Koran was written after the Torah and the Bible, it is a literal “manifesto of God’s will...it is ‘God 3.0,’ and none shall come after it.” Manji called this a dangerous “supremacy complex.”

“When abuse happens under the banner of Islam today,” she said, even Muslims “with fancy titles and formal educations do not yet know how to debate and dissent with the jihadists. ... It’s because we have not yet been introduced to the possibility of asking questions about our ‘perfect’ holy book.”

Manji’s book is a manifesto of a different sort—one devoted, she says, to “helping Islam rediscover its glorious humanitarian potential.” Manji challenges her fellow Muslims to recover a tradition of independent thinking and reasoning known as “ijtihad.”

Although the word has the same root as “jihad,” meaning “to struggle,” Manji emphasized that neither term originally had violent connotations.

“In the early centuries of Islam, thanks to ijtihad, 135 schools of thought flourished,” Manji said. “In Muslim Spain, scholars would teach their students to abandon ‘expert opinion’ about the Koran if their own conversations...came up with better evidence.”

This pluralistic era produced one of the world’s first universities, in ninth-century Baghdad, said Manji. She also credited ijtihad with early Islam’s contributions to “Western pop culture.”

“Muslims gave the world Mocha coffee (you’re welcome!). ... Cough syrup. The guitar.”

The plain-spoken, sometimes glib Manji might seem an unlikely catalyst for what she calls an “Islamic reformation.” She’s an ethnically South Asian, Ugandan-born, Canadian-raised, spiky-haired, out lesbian who has been a legislative aide and political speechwriter, and who is best known in Canada as a television host and producer. Like a lot of Berkeley residents, she has a multifaceted identity, for which she makes no apology.

She’s also a lay Muslim who got herself permanently thrown out of her madressa (Saturday religious school) at age 14 after years of asking too many “hard” questions about doctrine. But inspired by heroes who included Socrates, she kept asking those hard questions and kept studying Islam on her own.

“I could have walked away,” she said, “and gone on with becoming a materialistic North American for whom the mall is the God, as some Muslims quietly do.” Instead, she said, she happily discovered “a truly progressive side of my faith.”

Since publishing this book—her second—in 2003, when she was 35, Manji has received praise, condemnation, and death threats. She installed bulletproof glass in her Toronto home, and hired a bodyguard for her first book tour. Two uniformed UC police officers guarded her Berkeley talk.

Why risk her safety by writing what she calls her “open letter” for reform? Manji said she saw it as an obligation.

“The Islamic reformation begins in the West,” she writes, because “it’s here that we [Muslims] enjoy precious freedoms to think, express, challenge, and be challenged without fear of state reprisal.”

“I speak as a refugee when I say this is a precious gift,” she told her Berkeley audience. “And I’m asking my fellow Muslims: What in God’s name are we doing with this gift?”

The book indicts “desert tribalism” for restraining Islam’s progress in crucial areas: the ill-treatment of women in the Muslim world, the “Jew-bashing and Jew-baiting in which too many Muslims persistently engage,” “the continuing scourge of slavery” under Islamist regimes, and those regimes’ suppression of basic human rights.

“In the last 100 years alone,” Manji said, “more Muslims have been tortured and murdered at the hands of other Muslims than at the hands of any foreign imperial power.”

To address these problems, Manji believes, ordinary Muslims must ultimately gain the confidence to question received interpretations of their faith. For many outside the West, a first prerequisite is basic literacy. And for Western Muslims and non-Muslims who want to help, the book proposes a plan of action.

“I call this thoroughly non-military campaign ‘Operation Ijtihad’,” Manji said. “It begins by liberating the entrepreneurial talents of women in the Muslim world, by providing them with ‘micro-enterprise’ loans.” These $100-$300 investments were pioneered by Bangladesh’s renowned Grameen Bank.

“There is absolute consensus within Islam,” Manji said, “that when a Muslim woman earns her own assets—let’s say by starting a business—she gets to keep 100 percent of those assets, and do with them as she sees fit.”

“What could Muslim women do with these assets?” Manji asked. “They could become literate. They could learn to read the Koran for themselves,” rather than “merely swallowing...the selective verses that mullahs and imams tend to shove down their throats.”

Manji quoted a photographer friend’s encounter with a woman entrepreneur in Afghanistan who had followed exactly this path.

“You know the progressive verses in the Koran that you identify in your book?” her friend told Manji. “She found the verses you’re talking about, she recited them to her abusive husband, and ever since then, he has not laid an unwanted finger on her.”

“This,” Manji said, “is the power not just of the Koran, but also of literacy.”

Manji also mentioned women in Kabul, Afghanistan, who have used their capital to open schools for girls. She quoted a banner there that read, “Educate a boy and you educate only that boy, but educate a girl and you educate her entire family.”

“As economists might put it, the ‘multiplier effect’ of investing in Muslim women cannot be underestimated,” Manji said. She raised the prospect of wealthy nations “taking just a sliver of their defense budgets...and pooling them into a coherent program of micro-business loans for women in the Islamic world.”

At a recent Stanford University conference, Manji was delighted to hear Lt. Gen. John Abizaid—who commands U.S. forces in the Middle East—independently propose investing in similar loans to Muslim women.

Manji’s nonviolent struggles have sometimes taken place with her own mother, a devout Muslim who admonished her “not to anger God” in writing the book. When her mother first attended mosque after the book’s publication, she was brought to tears by an imam who denounced her daughter as “more criminal than Osama bin Laden.”

But fellow congregants quickly came over to tell her, “I’ve read Irshad’s book, and what she’s saying absolutely needs to be expressed.”

Manji proudly displayed a greeting card that her mother slipped into her suitcase shortly afterwards. It read, “Bravo! My dear daughter, I’m so proud of your achievement. You go, girl!”

“I leave you with the same message that my mother gave to me,” Manji told Muslims and non-Muslims in her audience. “You go! Dare to ask questions out loud. That’s how open societies remain open.”

Oh in case you thought this was the only source:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17747

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20050423/(spirit)/(spirit)1.html

http://www.progressive.org/blogs05/ap042605.php

http://daily.stanford.edu/tempo?page=content&id=16921&repository=0001_article

There are more, if you want them.

 

[Yurt]

K,

 

[freeandfun1]

Did you catch my post yurt? (ahem)

 

[Annie]

I have been trying to do some research on Islam's war tactics from about 7th century to about 10th century. This is just for my own info. I am looking primarily for how they pacified the occupied citizens and how they dealt with any insurgencies.

The sources I find seem to indicate that most conquered people liked them as they were better than the current rulers. I find mostly opinion sites that show that Islam really did kill anyone who resisted them.

Any help would be great. Also, if anyone wants to talk about their methods versus our methods that would be fine too.

Good primer:

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/islam.html

Beliefs and Practices of Islam
"Islam is a religion based upon the surrender to God who is one. The very name of the religion, al-islam in Arabic means at once submission and peace, for it is in submitting to God's will that human beings gain peace in their lives in their world and in the hereafter. The message of Islam concerns God, who in Arabic is called Allah, and it addresses itself to humanity's most profound nature. It concerns men and women as they were created by God -- not as fallen beings. Islam therefore considers itself to be not an innovation but a re-assertion of the universal truth of all revelation which is God's oneness." 30

In order for Muslims to submit themselves to Allah and reassert their faith in Islam, there are various practices and beliefs that each Muslim should follow. Islam for Muslims isn't just a belief, it is a way of life. What they believe, dictates how they should live for Allah. The following are generally accepted practices, however each sect and subgroup may adapt them to fulfill their own beliefs.

Shari'a: This is "a sacred law to guide Muslims in all times and places. It establishes the context for Islam as a political force. Where the Qu'ran may be seen as the constitution of Islam, the Shari'a is the corpus of laws that explicates it." 31 The Shari'a is essentially what unites all the diverse communities of Islam. It is the core of how to be a Muslim regardless of your sect or subgroup. However, in the contemporary world, the Shari'a has come under much debate as to how it can and/or should be re-interpreted in order to adapt to the modern era.

Five Pillars of Islam : these are obligations of every Muslim that uphold the structure of Islam. 32


tashahhud : Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood Muhammad;
salat : Five-times-daily prayers. Starting at just before sunrise, just after noon, midafternoon, just after sunset, and after nightfall;
zakat : Concern for almsgiving to the needy;
sawm : Self-purification through fasting. This usually done from before sunrise to sunset each day of Ramadan, the ninth month of the Muslim calender; and
hajj : The pilgrimage to Mecca for those who are able.
Sunna : "the combination of the Hadith and the Qu'ran interpreted as the way of life of the Prophet that Muslims take as theirmodel or code of Muslim Orthodoxy." 33

Six Pillars of Faith: They are meant to be a "practice-oriented" approach. . .to be ritually affirmedat the time of conversion or whenever one's doctorinal orientation is called into question by the religious authorities of the Islamic State. 34


To believe in Allah.
To believe in Allah's Angels.
To believe in Allah's revealed books, the Qu'ran, the New Testament, the Psalms of David, the Torah, and the Pages of Abraham.
To believe in Allah's messengers.
To believe in the last day.
To believe in Allah's determination of affairs, good or bad. This is a reaffirmation of the concepts of divine fore-knowledge and fate.
The Last Day: Similar to Christian belief in the New Testament.The Qu'ran states that the Last Day "will occur suddenly and with great cosmic upheaval: "when the sun ceases to shine; when the stars are falling down and the mountains are blown away. . .when the seas are set alight and men's souls are reunited. . ."(Qu'ran 81,82) And at this time the Mahdi, a messianic figure will appear. 35

http://www.byzantines.net/epiphany/islam.htm

5) The three basic authorities governing thought and behavior of Muslims are:

a) QURAN - is in the Arabic language of the Hijaz in Arabia as of the 7th century. It is "classical Arabic" and the model of purity for modern Arabic. Translations of the Quran are always problematic. Although translations are permitted, only the original Arabic version is authoritative. Because Muslims regard the Quran as the "word of Allah" given by Allah through Muhammad to his followers, translators, mostly Muslims, are loath to use modern methods of translation for clarity, using rather direct literal translations of words for fear of being charged with altering or revising the original. Consequently the Quran in English seems stilted, disjointed, inconsistent and in any case difficult reading. The book consists of monologues by Muhammad to his followers taken down by scribes over many years. It is organized with the longest chapters (Surahs) in the front and the shortest in the back. The translation used in this page is by M. H. Shakir, ISBN: 0940368188

b) HADITH is a collection of sayings and commentary attributed to Muhammad by his followers after his death. The HADITH is far more extensive than the QURAN and believed by Muslims to be inspired. As authority it is second only to the QURAN.

c) SHARIA is the law code of Islam created in the three hundred years following Muhammad's death. In varying degrees it is the basis of the legal codes in all Muslim countries. It supercedes all "man-made" laws. The SHARIA makes no distinction between religious rituals, legal codes, ethics and good manners.

Anyone seeking to become knowledgeable in matters Islamic is urged to study all three sources diligently within the context and application of 1400 years of Islamic history.

Lots of citations and documents are to be found here:

http://www.danielpipes.org/

totally off topic, well sort of, is a textbook debate, that may be of interest to parents out there:

http://hnn.us/articles/582.html

 

[Arabian]

I understand the issues of slavery/war in the past. Even the not so recent past of 100 years give or take. But today? Only Islam:

http://www.berkeleydaily.org/text/article.cfm?issue=04-29-05&storyID=21279



Oh in case you thought this was the only source:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17747

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20050423/(spirit)/(spirit)1.html

http://www.progressive.org/blogs05/ap042605.php

http://daily.stanford.edu/tempo?page=content&id=16921&repository=0001_article

There are more, if you want them.

hi sister
i appreciate your feelings about this accident
i know its a bad thing
but actually
i will talk in tow parts
1st part is that ,, there is no strong evidence that muslims who did so
and again sister dont look to muslim look to the islam
"the car not the driver" " the low not the people"

and another thing,, we talk here about the Islamic war tactics in 7th-10th century
and i asked you to read about how muslims dealed with their prisoner,, and compare between them and what happenning now adays

not about hijakers,, and as i said previously arabs going backword cause they let there religion and didnt work with their book the qur'an and the prophets sunnah,,
another last thing ,, if you read the statistic made after the 9/11 ,, you will find that lots of people convert to islam,, cause they wanted to know what this religion talk about,, and they found it perfect..
its like someone wanted to made the picture of islam so bad ,, but he couldnt and he mad lots of people convert to islam too.

take with reasons sister,,
note: this is for every body if you found my word so tough i swear i dont mean anything bad ,, this is maybe cause im not perfect in english,, maybe yurt know this well " right yurt"
so plz dont take my word as it some kind of .......

 

[Arabian]

Aah, so you admit that Islam acted according to tradition. Very good.

Now you really need to think about Muhammad's "inspiration" from God.

Will look forward to your response.

Aha
like this way
any way

ahha
i didnt say so
i said they did this as a tradition
but i didnt say that islam said so
cause actually i dont know ,,, about this part ya3ny
but i know that abou Bakr the prophet fellow
were buying the slave,, to let them free , to get ride from their slavior
and you could search if you dont believe me

aha
okayz
salam