Islam will be the dominate religion of the western nations

[irosie91]

In fact-----capital penalty for adultery had already been abolished in jewish law
before Jesus was born.------

Yes, in a magical holy book asopted ny christians as Canon....some christians TO THIS DAY cite it as the reasons they believe certain thi vs.

So, try as you might, you arent going to slither out from under the baseline facts of my point:

Reformation is possible and has happened. One example: christians stoning people for adultery. They used to do this a lot, and now they don't.

These are simple facts that really are not up for debate. Please don't waste my time.

Christians stoned people for adultery? when?

 

[alang1216]

If that were true you'd expect the incidence to be the same in all Muslim countries. It is not. While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

It says in "Reliance of the Traveler" ( the go to resource for Sharia law) that there is no retaliation for killing a child or sibling if they disgraced the family. So at least the law is there just in case they need it.

So the Quran says nothing on this. That book is only used by the Shafi school of jurisprudence, but not in either Quran or Hadith. I think it is cultural thing, not a religious.

I asked you if it was OK.

No you didn’t. I just looked through your post.

Honor killings are not ok.

the "its not religion, but culture" is a MYTH in reference to islam.
As to the statement "honor killing is not a problem in BanglaDesh"----
WHAT A HOOT. Honor killing in east Pakistan was actually my INTRO
to islam----way back in 1971 during the Pakistani civil war (west vs east Pakistan) -----there were reports of rampant rapes by the west Pakistani army upon
both muslims and hindus in east Pakistan and DROVES of pregnant
muslim girls either killed or abandoned to the gutters in east Pakistan (that meant death by starvation) ----droves were committing suicide. I complained to a
Pakistani surgeon I knew way back then. His answer was "YOU DON'T
UNDERSTAND MY CULTURE----THOSE GIRLS HAVE NO FUTURE" ---
tell it again coyote dear. PS. no mention of TURKEY? The suicide rate of
GIRLS is off the charts--------(sssshhh don't tell anyone---"she committed suicide"
is a euphemism for "the family offed her" ) For a candid appraisal of the
behavior of the West Pakistani army------speak to a Bangla Deshi-------
I am not referring to the abandonment of pregnant daughters-----I am referring
to WHAT THE WEST PAKISTANI ARMY DID----back then....circa 1971.

I don't doubt what you write, only the information I have is that at time:
While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

 

[alang1216]

If that were true you'd expect the incidence to be the same in all Muslim countries. It is not. While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

Nonsense. Culture and religion are intimately intertwined in Islamic countries. Muslims in the West have to confront the dominant culture of Western Civ as a counterpoint to their religion. Some adapt, others don't. The fact that some Muslims become westernized doesn't negate the medieval nature of unreformed Islam in areas that are dominated by that religion.

If you think that was nonsense you'll enjoy this...

Set your clock back 120 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Jew for Islam/Muslim.

 

[alang1216]

What I don't care about is scapegoating Islam. That will not change anyone's behavior

Of course it will. How absurd. We have to point at ideas in islam and say, "that's a horrible idea, please ignore it" for reform to happen. If you cant take part in that or choose to block that discussion, then you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Really? How successful have you been convincing Christian literalists that evolution is correct and the Bible is wrong? They have faith. You'll get nowhere saying God has shared some horrible ideas and should be ignored. You've negated the religion of a billion people. You may get some traction if you support clerics that share a more Western interpretation of the Quran.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

In fact-----capital penalty for adultery had already been abolished in jewish law
before Jesus was born.------

Yes, in a magical holy book asopted ny christians as Canon....some christians TO THIS DAY cite it as the reasons they believe certain thi vs.

So, try as you might, you arent going to slither out from under the baseline facts of my point:

Reformation is possible and has happened. One example: christians stoning people for adultery. They used to do this a lot, and now they don't.

These are simple facts that really are not up for debate. Please don't waste my time.

Christians stoned people for adultery? when?

In early christianity, when they were still enforcing mosaic law.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

How successful have you been convincing Christian literalists that evolution is correct and the Bible is wrong?

Well, the question is poorly worded from the start, as this is not just about me. Second, to answer the proper question -- how many christians have come to accept evolutionary theory as opposed to 150 years ago? -- I would say, a great many and a far larger percentage.

Would you like to attenpt to disagree with that? No? Good, so my point stands.

 

[boedicca]

If that were true you'd expect the incidence to be the same in all Muslim countries. It is not. While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

Nonsense. Culture and religion are intimately intertwined in Islamic countries. Muslims in the West have to confront the dominant culture of Western Civ as a counterpoint to their religion. Some adapt, others don't. The fact that some Muslims become westernized doesn't negate the medieval nature of unreformed Islam in areas that are dominated by that religion.

If you think that was nonsense you'll enjoy this...

Set your clock back 120 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Jew for Islam/Muslim.

B'loney.

 

[alang1216]

How successful have you been convincing Christian literalists that evolution is correct and the Bible is wrong?

Well, the question is poorly worded from the start, as this is not just about me. Second, to answer the proper question -- how many christians have come to accept evolutionary theory as opposed to 150 years ago? -- I would say, a great many and a far larger percentage.

Would you like to attenpt to disagree with that? No? Good, so my point stands.

I have watched you debate several Bible literalists here on USMB. I think you are bright, articulate, correct in your view of science and evolution, and an utter failure at convincing people of faith, that their faith is misplaced. Even with an arsenal of evidence to back you up. Why would you think you (or anyone) would have any chance of convincing a Muslim if you can't even convince a Christian.

 

[alang1216]

If that were true you'd expect the incidence to be the same in all Muslim countries. It is not. While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

Nonsense. Culture and religion are intimately intertwined in Islamic countries. Muslims in the West have to confront the dominant culture of Western Civ as a counterpoint to their religion. Some adapt, others don't. The fact that some Muslims become westernized doesn't negate the medieval nature of unreformed Islam in areas that are dominated by that religion.

If you think that was nonsense you'll enjoy this...

Set your clock back 120 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Jew for Islam/Muslim.

B'loney.

Good point. Set your clock back 150 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Irish/Catholic for Islam/Muslim.

 

[boedicca]

If that were true you'd expect the incidence to be the same in all Muslim countries. It is not. While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

Nonsense. Culture and religion are intimately intertwined in Islamic countries. Muslims in the West have to confront the dominant culture of Western Civ as a counterpoint to their religion. Some adapt, others don't. The fact that some Muslims become westernized doesn't negate the medieval nature of unreformed Islam in areas that are dominated by that religion.

If you think that was nonsense you'll enjoy this...

Set your clock back 120 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Jew for Islam/Muslim.

B'loney.

Good point. Set your clock back 150 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Irish/Catholic for Islam/Muslim.

B'loney^2 150 years ago the Irish were recovering from the Great Famine which killed 1M of them.

 

[irosie91]

It says in "Reliance of the Traveler" ( the go to resource for Sharia law) that there is no retaliation for killing a child or sibling if they disgraced the family. So at least the law is there just in case they need it.

So the Quran says nothing on this. That book is only used by the Shafi school of jurisprudence, but not in either Quran or Hadith. I think it is cultural thing, not a religious.

I asked you if it was OK.

No you didn’t. I just looked through your post.

Honor killings are not ok.

the "its not religion, but culture" is a MYTH in reference to islam.
As to the statement "honor killing is not a problem in BanglaDesh"----
WHAT A HOOT. Honor killing in east Pakistan was actually my INTRO
to islam----way back in 1971 during the Pakistani civil war (west vs east Pakistan) -----there were reports of rampant rapes by the west Pakistani army upon
both muslims and hindus in east Pakistan and DROVES of pregnant
muslim girls either killed or abandoned to the gutters in east Pakistan (that meant death by starvation) ----droves were committing suicide. I complained to a
Pakistani surgeon I knew way back then. His answer was "YOU DON'T
UNDERSTAND MY CULTURE----THOSE GIRLS HAVE NO FUTURE" ---
tell it again coyote dear. PS. no mention of TURKEY? The suicide rate of
GIRLS is off the charts--------(sssshhh don't tell anyone---"she committed suicide"
is a euphemism for "the family offed her" ) For a candid appraisal of the
behavior of the West Pakistani army------speak to a Bangla Deshi-------
I am not referring to the abandonment of pregnant daughters-----I am referring
to WHAT THE WEST PAKISTANI ARMY DID----back then....circa 1971.

I don't doubt what you write, only the information I have is that at time:
While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

wiki is not a source------it is written by contribution by INTERESTED PARTIES---
sorry-----but if you write a paper for a college course------do not site WIKI-----there
are some high school teachers who will not accept it

 

[longknife]

Islam in the USA is limited to pockets where Muslim immigrants have been settled.

100% false, rendering the rest nonsense.

Muslims are not evenly distributed around the country. Some metro areas, such as Washington, D.C., have sizable Muslim communities. Likewise, certain states, such as New Jersey, are home to two or three times as many Muslim adults per capita as the national average. But there are also states and counties with far fewer Muslims.
From A new estimate of U.S. Muslim population

The state-by-state map above shows the percentage of adult populations identifying as Muslims, according to Pew Research Center’s 2014 Religious Landscape Study.

Of all adult populations in the 50 states and District of Columbia, New Jersey reported the highest percentage of Muslim residents at 3 percent.

 

[irosie91]

Islam in the USA is limited to pockets where Muslim immigrants have been settled.

100% false, rendering the rest nonsense.

Muslims are not evenly distributed around the country. Some metro areas, such as Washington, D.C., have sizable Muslim communities. Likewise, certain states, such as New Jersey, are home to two or three times as many Muslim adults per capita as the national average. But there are also states and counties with far fewer Muslims.
From A new estimate of U.S. Muslim population

The state-by-state map above shows the percentage of adult populations identifying as Muslims, according to Pew Research Center’s 2014 Religious Landscape Study.

Of all adult populations in the 50 states and District of Columbia, New Jersey reported the highest percentage of Muslim residents at 3 percent.

oh-----gee I did not know------uhm----did I mention the fact that I have interacted with muslims for the past ---in excess of 55 years?

 

[Lastamender]

If that were true you'd expect the incidence to be the same in all Muslim countries. It is not. While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

Nonsense. Culture and religion are intimately intertwined in Islamic countries. Muslims in the West have to confront the dominant culture of Western Civ as a counterpoint to their religion. Some adapt, others don't. The fact that some Muslims become westernized doesn't negate the medieval nature of unreformed Islam in areas that are dominated by that religion.

If you think that was nonsense you'll enjoy this...

Set your clock back 120 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Jew for Islam/Muslim.

B'loney.

Good point. Set your clock back 150 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Irish/Catholic for Islam/Muslim.

What were the Irish Catholics blowing up? Where is their doctrine saying they intended to dominate the world? Can you post a copy?

 

[Coyote]

,.mk.

If that were true you'd expect the incidence to be the same in all Muslim countries. It is not. While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

Nonsense. Culture and religion are intimately intertwined in Islamic countries. Muslims in the West have to confront the dominant culture of Western Civ as a counterpoint to their religion. Some adapt, others don't. The fact that some Muslims become westernized doesn't negate the medieval nature of unreformed Islam in areas that are dominated by that religion.

If you think that was nonsense you'll enjoy this...

Set your clock back 120 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Jew for Islam/Muslim.

B'loney.

Good point. Set your clock back 150 years and you could rewrite your post substituting Irish/Catholic for Islam/Muslim.

What were the Irish Catholics blowing up? Where is their doctrine saying they intended to dominate the world? Can you post a copy?

Christendom - Wikipedia

 

[Coyote]

In fact-----capital penalty for adultery had already been abolished in jewish law
before Jesus was born.------

Yes, in a magical holy book asopted ny christians as Canon....some christians TO THIS DAY cite it as the reasons they believe certain thi vs.

So, try as you might, you arent going to slither out from under the baseline facts of my point:

Reformation is possible and has happened. One example: christians stoning people for adultery. They used to do this a lot, and now they don't.

These are simple facts that really are not up for debate. Please don't waste my time.

Christians stoned people for adultery? when?

In early christianity, when they were still enforcing mosaic law.

They burned witches too.

 

[Coyote]

If that were true you'd expect the incidence to be the same in all Muslim countries. It is not. While honor killings are common in Muslim countries like Pakistan or the Arab nations, it is a practically unknown practice in many other Muslim countries too, such as Bangladesh, Indonesia or Senegal. This fact supports the idea that honor killings are to do with culture rather than religion.[84]

It says in "Reliance of the Traveler" ( the go to resource for Sharia law) that there is no retaliation for killing a child or sibling if they disgraced the family. So at least the law is there just in case they need it.

So the Quran says nothing on this. That book is only used by the Shafi school of jurisprudence, but not in either Quran or Hadith. I think it is cultural thing, not a religious.

Well, here's the problem with your theory: in Islamic societies, their is no separation between church and state. The culture and the religion are interrelated.

The same applies in Christian, Hindu and Jewish societies. Look at history. What is your point?

No, it doesn't. Christianity underwent a reformation. Israel is a pluralistic country which does not persecute non Jews. There are no Hindu states.

You cannot find any modern examples of these three religions engaging in the horrific destruction of human life that occurs in Islamic states. The only ones that beat them in death count are Communist ones - which are another form of religious states.

India is becoming a Hindu State. Prior to 2007 Nepal was a Hindu state. Myanmar is a Buddhist nationalist state. And guess what? They have attempted genocide of one minority and others are heavily persecuted including Christians. Burmese Christians make up a sizable number of refugees we used to let in.

Historically, Christian nation’s sucked for women and minority religions. How did they treat Jews?

The so called reformation is a thin veneer. Scratch and below the surface are all the old isms. And yes Islam needs it’s reformation.

Religion should stay out of our government.

 

[Lastamender]

In fact-----capital penalty for adultery had already been abolished in jewish law
before Jesus was born.------

Yes, in a magical holy book asopted ny christians as Canon....some christians TO THIS DAY cite it as the reasons they believe certain thi vs.

So, try as you might, you arent going to slither out from under the baseline facts of my point:

Reformation is possible and has happened. One example: christians stoning people for adultery. They used to do this a lot, and now they don't.

These are simple facts that really are not up for debate. Please don't waste my time.

Christians stoned people for adultery? when?

In early christianity, when they were still enforcing mosaic law.

They burned witches too.

So, because Christians burned witches we should ignore the hatred coming from Islam. People are killed DAILY in Islam's name, just like Islam wants it.

 

[Coyote]

In fact-----capital penalty for adultery had already been abolished in jewish law
before Jesus was born.------

Yes, in a magical holy book asopted ny christians as Canon....some christians TO THIS DAY cite it as the reasons they believe certain thi vs.

So, try as you might, you arent going to slither out from under the baseline facts of my point:

Reformation is possible and has happened. One example: christians stoning people for adultery. They used to do this a lot, and now they don't.

These are simple facts that really are not up for debate. Please don't waste my time.

Christians stoned people for adultery? when?

In early christianity, when they were still enforcing mosaic law.

They burned witches too.

So, because Christians burned witches we should ignore the hatred coming from Islam. People are killed DAILY in Islam's name, just like Islam wants it.

Hatred should never be ignored, including that hatred directed against Muslims just for being Muslim.

 

[Vastator]

It says in "Reliance of the Traveler" ( the go to resource for Sharia law) that there is no retaliation for killing a child or sibling if they disgraced the family. So at least the law is there just in case they need it.

So the Quran says nothing on this. That book is only used by the Shafi school of jurisprudence, but not in either Quran or Hadith. I think it is cultural thing, not a religious.

Well, here's the problem with your theory: in Islamic societies, their is no separation between church and state. The culture and the religion are interrelated.

The same applies in Christian, Hindu and Jewish societies. Look at history. What is your point?

No, it doesn't. Christianity underwent a reformation. Israel is a pluralistic country which does not persecute non Jews. There are no Hindu states.

You cannot find any modern examples of these three religions engaging in the horrific destruction of human life that occurs in Islamic states. The only ones that beat them in death count are Communist ones - which are another form of religious states.

India is becoming a Hindu State. Prior to 2007 Nepal was a Hindu state. Myanmar is a Buddhist nationalist state. And guess what? They have attempted genocide of one minority and others are heavily persecuted including Christians. Burmese Christians make up a sizable number of refugees we used to let in.

Historically, Christian nation’s sucked for women and minority religions. How did they treat Jews?

The so called reformation is a thin veneer. Scratch and below the surface are all the old isms. And yes Islam needs it’s reformation.

Religion should stay out of our government.

If one believes their religion to be the will of god... What reformation is needed?