Islam Warns About Third Holiest Site?

[greeneyez1029]

No the Palestinians are not victims in this, the reason they live in dirt poor conditions is because of their fabulous leader fighting with a nation that has just as much of a right to exist as Palestine.

You are right when you say I consider the palestinians as the victims of this conflict. They are the ones living in dirty poor, overcrowded ghettoes, just like a certain people was some 50 years ago. I also consider israeli jews slaughthered in bus stops, pizza parlors as victims. THEY ARE BOTH VICTIMS OF A MASTER RACE IDEOLOGY CALLED SUPREMACIST ZIONISM OR ISRAELI ZIONISM.

But my opposition to Israel has nothing to do with the palestinian refugees I met.

I’ve never met any victim of Nazi Germany but I oppose its master race ideology.

I’ve never been to South Africa, I’ve hever met the former “citizens” of the now extinct Bantustans, but I oppose south african apartheid.

I don’t need to talk to any palestinian refugee to recognise an apartheid state when I see one.

 

[José]

originally posted by greeneyez
No the Palestinians are not victims in this, the reason they live in dirt poor conditions is because of their fabulous leader fighting with a NATION that has just as much of a right to exist as Palestine.

Palestine (the region) is inhabited by two nations greeneyez, the jewish and the arab nation.

So there can be no (supremacist) nation-state in Palestine, neither jewish nor arab.

Only a bi-national state... a state for two nations.

 

[greeneyez1029]

Yes but the Arabs are fighting the Israeli's to the death to keep them from having any sort of nation..If they wish for peace there, the first smart move would be for Arafat to take a flying leap..Israel is the known land of the Jewish people and they have every right to exist as a single nation on it..

Palestine (the region) is inhabited by two nations greeneyez, the jewish and the arab nation.

So there can be no nation-state in Palestine, neither jewish nor arab.

Only a bi-national state... a state for two nations.

 

[José]

Israel is the known land of the Jewish people and they have every right to exist as a single nation on it..

Let's take a look at your statement greeneyez:

Israel is the known land of the Jewish people and they have every right to exist as a single nation on it..

Would you agree with me that:

America is the known land of the native american people and they have every right to exist as a single nation on it..

Even if we leave aside the question that native americans never left america for 2000 years, does this give them a right to create a state that discriminate white, black and asian americans?

I don't think you would agree with that.

So greeneyez, if it's bad for America it must be bad for Palestine too...

You can't have a nation-state (a supremacist nation-state) anywhere in the world inhabited by more than one ethnic group.

You can't have a white (supremacist) nation-state in America.

You can't have a jewish (supremacist) nation-state in Palestine (the region).

 

[greeneyez1029]

I did not say palestine did not have the right to exist, but why is it when Israel asks for the same right bombers are climbing on to the nearest bus? By the way the Natives sold their land, they are just mad because they didn't get what it was worth..That was not the case in Israel's situation. Palestine is denying there right to co-exist in peace.

Let's take a look at your statement greeneyez:

Israel is the known land of the Jewish people and they have every right to exist as a single nation on it..

Would you agree with me that:

America is the known land of the native american people and they have every right to exist as a single nation on it..

Even if we leave aside the question that native americans never left america for 2000 years, does this give them a right to create a state that discriminate white, black and asian americans?

I don't think you would agree with that.

So greeneyez, if it's bad for America it must be bad for Palestine too...

You can't have a nation-state (a supremacist nation-state) anywhere in the world inhabited by more than one ethnic group.

You can't have a white nation in America.

You can't have a jewish nation in Palestine (the region).

 

[José]

I did not say palestine did not have the right to exist, but why is it when Israel asks for the same right bombers are climbing on to the nearest bus? By the way the Natives sold their land, they are just mad because they didn't get what it was worth..That was not the case in Israel's situation. Palestine is denying there right to co-exist in peace.

You didn't say Palestine didn't have the right to exist as an arab state.

I did.

There can be no ethnic supremacist state in a multi-racial region like Palestine... neither jewish nor arab...

So Israel must be peacefully dismantled and replaced by a bi-national or civic state...a state like America... a state that see no color...

 

[greeneyez1029]

Why is it that Israel is the one to disassemble? Why not Palestine? I wouldn't say the race is so much the issue as is the religions themselves...

You didn't say Palestine didn't have the right to exist as an arab state?

I did.

There can be no ethnic supremacist state in a multi-racial region like Palestine... neither jewish nor arab...

So Israel must be peacefully dismantled and replaced by a bi-national or civic state...a state like America... a state that see no color...

 

[José]

Why is it that Israel is the one to disassemble? Why not Palestine? I wouldn't say the race is so much the issue as is the religions themselves...

Both political entities must be dismantled greeneyez: Israel AND the Palestinian Authority.

They must merge into a single state of citizens...just like America.

A state for all the peoples who now inhabit Palestine (the region).

A state that allows jews and arabs to live anywhere they want.

A state that regards both arabs and jews as equal citizens before the law.

OK greeneyez... I have to go now... have a good day or night : )

 

[greeneyez1029]

Good night Jose...

Both political entities must be dismantled greeneyez: Israel AND the Palestinian Authority.

They must merge into a single state of citizens...just like America.

A state for all the people who now inhabit Palestine (the region).

A state that allows jews and arabs to live anywhere they want.

A state that regards both arabs and jews as equal citizens before the law.

OK greeneyez... I have to go now... have a good day or night : )

 

[ajwps]

Comrade you met a grandson of palestinian refugees (r2200t) who were disposessed in 48, and you still refuse to accept a reality that was rubbed on your face.

Even if I paid your ticket to Gaza so you could meet REAL PEOPLE like r2200t, who were born in Israel and expelled in 48 and have now to live in that crowded arab bantustan, you would still call them a bunch of liars.

No amount of credible links will ever make you believe something you don’t want to see.

So much for indoctrination.

Comrad:

Finally r2200t gave actual PROOF of Israel being a dictatorship. r2200t gives you his own word as a Palestinian. What more proof can he give than his word of honor as a liar for Allah, but first wait for him to load the dynamite belt of a ten year old so that he can blow up his brothers in Gaza.

Now r2200t's word again?

 

[ajwps]

SSSHHHEEEEESSSSHHHHH

Smooth talker.

I wonder if there is a single statement in the world you are unable to twist...

Yes everyone wonders if you can give a simple untwisted contorted true statement.

Maybe you lost the meaning of what I was saying in the middle of all the other posts but why is that I doubt it?? This is the right CONTEXT of my post:

Dillo said:

"It appears to me that differrent terrorist groups have different targets. Some concentrate on Israel, others concentrate on specific western countries and thier interests and some are attempting to keep Iraq from going democratic.

My answer:

:
Take it from someone who already lived in the Middle East dillo... Anti-americanism there is 95% Israel/Palestine...AT LEAST

This is what I was trying to say:

Anybody who already lived in the muslim world can only laugh at the ridiculous statement that anti-americanism in the Middle East is due to a few thousands american troops stationed in saudi arabia.

Anybody who already lived in the muslim world can only laugh at the ridiculous statement that arabs resent America because they want to turn the whole world into a worldwide caliphate. Anybody who already lived in the muslim world can only laugh at the ridiculous statement that anti americanism in the middle east has exactly 473 causes. ANYBODY WHO LIKE ME, ALREADY LIVED IN THE MUSLIM WORLD KNOW THAT ARAB/MUSLIM RESENTMENT TOWARDS AMERICA IS RELATED ALMOST IN ITS ENTIRETY TO THE ISRAELI/ PALESTINIAN PROBLEM.( AND THIS IS WHAT HELPS BIN LADEN/AL QAEDA FIND ITS RECRUITS, WITHOUT WHOM HE IS JUST A GUY LIVING IN A CAVE WAITING TO DIE OF KIDNEY FAILURE).

Are you just anyone who has lived in the ME and laughed? You say that Arab/Muslim Islamic resentment (hatred) towards America is related almost in its entirety to Israel/Arab problem. What does the remainder of the words almost in its entirety consist of when it comes to this seemingly insoluable problem?

Before 1947 and the re-establishment of Israel as a Jewish state why did the Arabs continually attack and murder Jews attempting to drain the swamps and replant the deserts of the old land of Israel? When there were nothing but Palestinian Jews and some Arabs who did not call themselves palestinians? No one is laughing at your mockery of truth. (Sura 9:5) is the answer to your dillema. May peace come to Israel and Jerusalem free of any Arab/Islamic problem people. No ethnic cleansing of Arabs but simply the same solution that all the Arab countries in the ME had done with their own palestinian problem, TRANSFER to another land.

Anti-americanism in the Middle East has two basic causes: Israel/Palestine and muslim fundamentalism.

Sorry, you cant have two basic causes for anti-Americanism. Take your choice, door 1 or door 2. I know you would pick door 2 (Islamic fundamentalism or Qur'an 9:5). CORRECT....

But what really attracts young arabs to islamic militancy is exactly NATIONALISTIC CAUSES like Palestine. I could see this for myself in Syria, Jordan and Algeria.

Or maybe it is just feeding young minds hate, bigotry and a Islamic Allah right to another's land. KILL THE JEWS.... You led everyone to believe that you are against Nationalistic causes and want everybody just to get along. Are you contradicting yourself? What can you see in a couple of Arab dictatorships? HATE.. SHAHIDADA.....

Dillo asked you: what have the refugees done to America?

The answer I had already given him was that Palestinian refugees never did any harm to America, but their plight is, by far, the most important reason that leads other arabs to do.

Given the fact that the 9/11 bombers are Islamic fundamentalists and Arafat and his merry men are Islamic fundamentalists, all under the same umbrella trained in the same terrorist camps, then you could say that the palestinians were part and parcel of the attacks on America. Also the fact that the Arabs calling themselves palestinians attack the only democratic ally the US has in the ME. For there are no democracies when all the Arab countries in the ME are dictatorships.

If there is an arab in the world who does not wish to see the end of this conflict, IT HAS TO BE BIN LADEN.

Bin Laden doesn't want to end this conflict? Why is that a fact in your mind?

Now, did you finally understand my words or are you going to distort them once again???

Distortion of reality is in the mind of the distorter. Your words speak for themselves. Who believes anyone with an olive branch in their mouth and a suicide belt in their hand?

PS. It’s quite ironic that you chose to quote Locke to refute my points on Israel, since this english thinker conceived a kind of society that is everything Israel is not: a color blind society, a society made up of citizens not ethnicities.

Oh did you know Locke that well? I'm sorry but I didn't know you were a reader of anything but Qur'an.

Jose, if you wait just a little longer and hold your breath, you will see a real resolution to the Israel/Arab dispute for the land and the lives of the Jewish people.

Take ONE guess at that solution to which I refer. TRANSFER of the Arabs to another land of Islam.

 

[ajwps]

You are right when you say I consider the palestinians as the victims of this conflict. They are the ones living in dirty poor, overcrowded ghettoes, just like a certain people was some 50 years ago. I also consider israeli jews slaughthered in bus stops, pizza parlors as victims. THEY ARE BOTH VICTIMS OF A MASTER RACE IDEOLOGY CALLED SUPREMACIST ZIONISM OR ISRAELI ZIONISM.

What logic you have? The Arabs chose their dirt ghettos, poverty, starvation, hate education and the tools of their leaders instead of taking a state of palestine when offered to them twice on a silver platter. Do you think that they are still victims after choosing their own fate? Arafat with his now stolen Arab billions of dollars could change all that but no he siphons his stolen billions to his wife in Paris France. Maybe your palestinian arabs could move to France. The French seem to like you better than the Jews of Israel.

But my opposition to Israel has nothing to do with the palestinian refugees I met. I’ve never met any victim of Nazi Germany but I oppose its master race ideology. I’ve never been to South Africa, I’ve hever met the former “citizens” of the now extinct Bantustans, but I oppose south african apartheid. I don’t need to talk to any palestinian refugee to recognise an apartheid state when I see one.

Just who are YOU to recognize anything about the suffering of anybody you met or didnt meet? Are you all knowing and all seeing? Why don't you become a fortune cookie writer or simply read Tarot cards for a living?

 

[Annie]

America, is in dire need to redefine its priorities:

Which comes first: America’s safety or the american jewish lobby??

We all know the sad answer to this question...

So the only viable way for arab antiamericanism to subside is the end of the palestinian struggle.

But the end of that struggle and the subsequent reduction of anti-americanism in the arab world are very complex social phenomena that will take some time to unfold.

In the meantime, America remains at risk.

It is a sad spectacle to see a great country like America, the first state of citizens in the world, a force for good on this planet being held hostage by an interest group acting on behalf of an apartheid state.

I say it again:

I criticise the state of Israel as a friend of America, as someone who don't want to see her hurt again, because of a racial dictatorship propped up by her in the ME.

Maybe it's just me, but somehow I read this as an implied threat. Perhaps you could explain to me?

 

[ajwps]

America, is in dire need to redefine its priorities: Which comes first: America’s safety or the american jewish lobby?? We all know the sad answer to this question...

Yes we do... Another threat to America to rid itself of its true ally or be destroyed.

So the only viable way for arab antiamericanism to subside is the end of the palestinian struggle.

Okay so lets end the palestinian struggle to kill the Jews. Are you ready to do it?

But the end of that struggle and the subsequent reduction of anti-americanism in the arab world are very complex social phenomena that will take some time to unfold.

How much time do you think it will take to unfold?

In the meantime, America remains at risk. It is a sad spectacle to see a great country like America, the first state of citizens in the world, a force for good on this planet being held hostage by an interest group acting on behalf of an apartheid state.

In the meantime America and the entire world are at risk. This risk was created in whole by the Islamic fundamentalist Muhammad the LAST prophet in his now famous Qur'anic satanic verse:

Sura 9:5

Sher Ali translation: And when the forbidden months have passed, slay the idolaters (all unbelievers of Muhammad) wherever you find them and take them captive, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakát, then leave their way free. Surely, ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

I say it again: I criticise the state of Israel as a friend of America, as someone who don't want to see her hurt again, because of a racial dictatorship propped up by her in the ME.

We all know very well what you criticise. Why do you so much fear America having another democracy for its ally? What is there to fear for nothing happens without the will of the Allah the most Merciful? Do you think for one second that America will be hurt once again without the US and Israel totally destroying Islam? All 1.35 billion Islamic terrorists and peaceful Muslims around the world? Will Allah the Merciful protect you and your religion?

Come on and try Muslim.

:arabia:

 

[Annie]

You can't have a jewish nation in Palestine (the region).

So, Israel would cease to exist? You are dreaming my friend.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Maybe it's just me, but somehow I read this as an implied threat. Perhaps you could explain to me?

Originally posted by ajpws
Yes we do... Another threat to America to rid itself of its true ally or be destroyed.

Enemies make threats...

Friends give advice...

I don’t own any media. The only thing I can do is come into a chatline and try to remove americans from their state of denial, telling them that after discussing with hundreds of arabs on the streets of Damascus, Amman and Argel I can guarantee them that militant islam is only THE CATALYST that unite people frustrated by NATIONALISTIC CAUSES like Palestine.

As someone who already lived there, I can attest to the fact that the Israeli / Palestinian issue is the major cause of anti-americanism there. Everybody and I mean everybody resent the alliance between America and Israel. Nowhere in the world you find anything even remotely similar.

Look...I believe the palestinian cause is morally justified... a country can’t simply expell more than two-thirds of the native arab population, imprisoned them in disconnected guettos and then start treating them as nationals of another country. Calling a country like this a "liberal democracy" is a mockery of the word democracy.

But at least in two of my previous posts I conceded that since the jewish lobby isn’t going anywhere, the end of the palestinian struggle is desirable so that anti-americanism in the Middle East subside and America can be safer.

But the opposite isn't true. I've never heard you saying you would be willing to see the peaceful dismantling of the israeli apartheid state in order to make America safer.

America could be nuked 10 times for all you care...you are all so in love with that racial dictatorship that even if a major American city became inhabitable for 100 years you would still be here, living in your parallel universe, where arabs hate America because they want to impose a worldwide Caliphate.

Dillo at least recognises the damage that pressure group has caused to America’s safety and reputation and the danger it continues to expose America to.

But you two don’t give a damn about America’s safety. That’s pretty clear by now.

Now tell me who really cares about America? (and I’m not even an american).

 

[José]

Originally posted by Kathianne
So, Israel would cease to exist? You are dreaming my friend.

Sure I am Kathianne. I’m a dreamer indeed. And while you’re at it, why not call me a radical too?

Israelis, who like me, oppose Zionism in its israeli implementation, are often called “radicals”, the “extreme left wing” by the israeli government...

I would like to thank the racist rulers of Israel for providing me with another comparison between Israel and South Africa (as if there weren’t enough). Radical is what the SA government used to call Nelson Mandela.

If I’m a dreamer and a radical because I support the peaceful end of the jewish supremacist state, then I will plead guilty as charged.

Let me introduce you to the most famous dreamers of the 20th century:

Gandhi, a dreamer who peacefully opposed british colonialism in India (not exactly racism, but based on a racist ideology, white man’s burden etc)

Dietrich Bonhoefer, a dreamer who conspired against Nazi Germany.

Rev. Martin Luther King, another dreamer who fought the last remnants of legalised racism in the US.

Nelson Mandela, the most famous dreamer alive, opposed apartheid in South Africa.

Gandhi, Bonhoefer, Luther King, Mandela...If I’m a dreamer, I couldn’t ask for better company.

Stop betraying the ideals of America (your own country) and join our (american) dream for Palestine, Kathianne.

 

[José]

You were the first person on this message board I talked to, remember Kathianne?

I think it was thread “Racist, Apartheid State” (if I’m not mistaken), .

Well, you’ll be the last one too because real life is demmanding my immediate attention.

Even though I regard you and ajwps as “lost cases” (I mean, there seems to be no power on earth capable of changing your minds towards Israel) it was nice to talk to you all.

Untill we meet again

Goodbye

 

[drac]

..... Even though I regard you and ajwps as “lost cases” (I mean, there seems to be no power on earth capable of chaging your minds towards Israel) .....

Hm... should not one be on the "true" path before calling others the "lost cases" or at least be able to see other side? just a thought

 

[ajwps]

You were the first person on this message board I talked to, remember Kathianne?

I think it was thread “Racist, Apartheid State” (if I’m not mistaken), .

Well, you’ll be the last one too because real life is demmanding my immediate attention.

Even though I regard you and ajwps as “lost cases” (I mean, there seems to be no power on earth capable of changing your minds towards Israel) it was nice to talk to you all.

Untill we meet again

Goodbye

Now that Jose has finally said adios, it is a good time to analyze his aberrant thought processes.

His rhetoric is both of frustration and disillusionment. Like most radicals, he becomes very frustrated with things that he cannot control and is disillusioned with his strong faith in Islam.

Jose's frustration reveals his grandiose ideations of a Palestine where no unbelievers can live as equals and not desecrate his unrealistic belief in a holy soil that somehow was granted to the followers of his prophet's angelic revelation.

The constant lack of ability to convince Americans to see his particular visions of a greater Islamic reality and the fact that the enemies of Islam not only fight back at their attacks from ambush but also because Islam is losing in just about every field that they choose as a battlefield.

There will be increasing numbers of this type of enemy within whose only desire is a glorious death for their god. Much like the Kamikaze suicide men who gladly gave their lives for their god emperor and Japan.

It is good that Jose is gone. I'm afraid that eventually he will return.