Is this a fair representative of Christianity?

[TrinityPower]

Can one expect a non-Christian to understand without enlightenment? No.

Really?

All non-Christians lack enlightenment?

No wonder Ghandi was so unimpressed by all of the "enlightened" Christians who were screwing life up for tens of millions of devout Hindus.

Screw you! (kidding....)

I don't mean the "enlightenment" that to sound condescending (thought I know it does) - it's hard "knowing" the truth and trying to explain it to others. I'm a MESS I mean it De... really a MESS but I do know the truth. Even with God as my guide, it's hard! I wish I could explain it better. I just hope that someone out there can.. there are really good strong Christians out there.... I just hope they can make an impact... I know they can.....

You have to yield to the spirit and allow the bible and the holy spirit talk to you. It is why the bible is often called the "living" word but trying to explain things like that to someone who hasn't experienced it would be like explaining a cell phone to Abraham

 

[Derideo_Te]

This is off the subject but I have to ask...why are those of you who are atheist all over the religious forums? If it is off the table for you then why are you still standing around the watering hole so to speak? Obviously there is something you seek.

Speaking for myself, because I don't speak for "atheism" (no one does), I am hear to ensure that atheists are not libeled by those who profess to be "godly people".

Atheists are perceived to be a threat to theists because atheists live perfectly happy and normal lives without wasting any of their time engaging in the superstition and rituals of religion.

From a theist point of view that is seen as a repudiation of what they believe so they attack atheists.

Did you know that atheists are the last minority that you can still legally discriminate against in this nation? Did you know that most people would never vote for an atheist?

So as an I atheist I am here to defend our Freedom FROM Religion rights against those who would prefer to burn us at the stake figuratively since they are restrained from doing so literally.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Bonzi]

I need to go clean my house. Will miss the discussion. Hope you all have a great Saturday.

B.

 

[TrinityPower]

No it doesn't really. If I don't have a dog or want a dog I don't deliberately go to forums and pet stores proclaiming I don't like dogs nor want one. You don't want a dog or like them fine, bug off but trying to convince others to dump their dog and be like you is not right. People who have dogs usually have them because they enjoy them and telling people they are less enlightened than you are because you have shed the ties and responsibilities of one is fine to state such and move along. People who do not like dogs don't make an effort to go to dog shows. Since you are so enlightened this analogy shouldn't be over your head

 

[BluePhantom]

Thank you for the clarification.

Yes, I was probably one of those you described who were taught what they were supposed to believe but never could buy into it.

And you know what? That's perfectly fine. I believe that God knows what is in our hearts and so if you don't believe it and you try to believe it, the only person you are fooling is going to be yourself. If God is who I think He is, you sure aint going to fool Him, so you might as well just be straight up about it.

Unlike you I chose to start believing in myself and what I could do for others. First and foremost I discovered that if I wanted to help others I needed to sort myself out. In that respect I made a pact with myself to never lie to myself under any circumstances, ever.

Unlike me? Are you under the impression that I do not believe in myself and do not focus on helping others? I believe God grants us opportunity but what we do with our lives is totally on us. I don't rely upon God to give me purpose in life. I rely upon God to grant me the opportunity to fulfill my purpose. What I do with the opportunities God grants me is totally on me. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

Then I decided I wasn't going to lie to anyone else either. (Yeah, that slammed a lot of doors to lucrative jobs I could have done but I have no regrets about that decision.) I am by nature a compassionate person so I do what I can for others. I don't do it out any sense of a "reward" and neither do I do it because of sense of compulsion. I just do it because there are people in need who I can help and so I volunteer and do whatever I can.

I make no attempt to reach them except on a human level. I don't expect anything in return because they are not in any position to give anything. They need my help and they get it without any strings attached.

I am actually very similar. Ask Trinity...my need to help people has gotten me in some very bad situations in the past. She was not pleased with me over some of them (Trinity is my wife in case you didn't know). I didn't do it out of a feeling of obligation to God, I did it because it's just who I am. I also try to reach people on a human level, I think. You notice I don't go around on these boards telling people what they should think and what they should believe. As I always say, my path is mine to walk and someone else's path is theirs to walk. I can share my experiences and my personal beliefs about God, but what someone else does with them is completely up to them and it makes no difference to me. If someone finds meaning in what I have to say, wonderful. If not, well that's fine too.

I used to tell my students to pay close attention to their professors and identify the traits they admire and copy them. One student said to me "well Phantom, what if we look at you and can't find a single thing we would want to copy?" and my answer was "then you have still learned something. You have learned what you don't want to be".

 

[Derideo_Te]

Unlike me? Are you under the impression that I do not believe in myself and do not focus on helping others?

No, I was not clear in what I wrote.

What I meant was that unlike you I chose to leave religion behind because IMO the redeeming value wasn't worth the price of admission.

You, on the other hand, have chosen to redeem religion which is a task that not even Sisyphus would dare to tackle.

And no, I am not likening you to him, just his task of endlessly rolling the boulder uphill only to have to do it all over again and again.

In that respect you are a better man than I, Gunga Din!

 

[Derideo_Te]

No it doesn't really. If I don't have a dog or want a dog I don't deliberately go to forums and pet stores proclaiming I don't like dogs nor want one. You don't want a dog or like them fine, bug off but trying to convince others to dump their dog and be like you is not right. People who have dogs usually have them because they enjoy them and telling people they are less enlightened than you are because you have shed the ties and responsibilities of one is fine to state such and move along. People who do not like dogs don't make an effort to go to dog shows. Since you are so enlightened this analogy shouldn't be over your head

Ok, so you don't understand my position at all. I get that. You are not alone. Millions of your fellow theists don't have any clue what atheism is all about.

Why don't you take a little time to educate yourself about the topic since you are obviously baffled by it.

Here is a place that you might start.

About FFRF - Freedom From Religion Foundation

Welcome to the Freedom from Religion Foundation

The history of Western civilization shows us that most social and moral progress has been brought about by persons free from religion. In modern times the first to speak out for prison reform, for humane treatment of the mentally ill, for abolition of capital punishment, for women's right to vote, for death with dignity for the terminally ill, and for the right to choose contraception, sterilization and abortion have been freethinkers, just as they were the first to call for an end to slavery. The Foundation works as an umbrella for those who are free from religion and are committed to the cherished principle of separation of state and church.​

The 1st Amendment to the Constitution was intended to keep church and state as separate entities.

There was plenty of threads in this religion forum demanding that theists be allowed to impose their beliefs on our secular government when it comes to matters like abortion and gay marriage.

Should those threads be allowed to stand unchallenged?

Are the free speech rights of atheists not allowed in a forum labelled Religion & Ethics?

Can an atheist not argue that it is unethical for theists to impose their religious views on our secular government?

If all you want is a soapbox to proclaim your religious views then start a website for yourself.

On the other hand you are in a forum that is advertised as follows on every single web page;

That says that this is the place where everyone is encouraged to exercise their free speech rights irrespective of their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

In essence your response only makes sense if you perceive this forum to be a place of religious worship.

If it was then yes, atheists would not have any reason to be here.

But this isn't a place of worship at all.

Instead it is a place to celebrate the 1st Amendment by exercising our right to free speech and freedom both of and from religion.

We are here to debate religion and ethics.

Disclaimer: No puppies were harmed in the making of this post.

 

[TrinityPower]

Seems to me the MINORITY of you have managed to change the foundations of the US. Why is it that groups strive to be considered a minority and therefore demand special status? Why strive to be part of a group? Given you don't believe in God you can stop reading here...God made each and every person ever created with unique DNA and fingerprints. We were made to be individuals each given unique talents (graces) no one else has that are exactly the same so with that said every person could claim to be a minority by man's definition.

Jesus taught lessons, those who chose not to receive what he said didn't benefit from the teaching. He didn't grab their arms and plead with them to do so. He even spoke in parable about the word being taken by various means but some disregarded that and stayed with it. He spoke of these people because there were hecklers in the crowd but it didn't deter his message. If you choose to not believe things that is your business but telling others they are wrong for it and doing your best to pull them away from their understanding is not your place. In fact go to the middle east and give it a go. I do not wait in anticipation of your story to be told by your hand

And this country was not formed to dissolve religion and spiritual freedom which is what it has turned into from the activists of a MINORITY. Seems to me those beliefs of a MINORITY have become something claimed to now be a majority. It is this minority that stole the truth and twisted it to their own understanding. Did you know that the capital building of the US served as a church building? This is the foundational blocks this country was built upon. The educational system centered around the fact that people wanted children to be able to read and write so they could study their bibles. I think you best rethink putting down the intents of this country until you learn its blocks of foundation
WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - Church in the U.S. Capitol

 

[Derideo_Te]

Seems to me the MINORITY of you have managed to change the foundations of the US. Why is it that groups strive to be considered a minority and therefore demand special status? Why strive to be part of a group? Given you don't believe in God you can stop reading here...God made each and every person ever created with unique DNA and fingerprints. We were made to be individuals each given unique talents (graces) no one else has that are exactly the same so with that said every person could claim to be a minority by man's definition.

Jesus taught lessons, those who chose not to receive what he said didn't benefit from the teaching. He didn't grab their arms and plead with them to do so. He even spoke in parable about the word being taken by various means but some disregarded that and stayed with it. He spoke of these people because there were hecklers in the crowd but it didn't deter his message. If you choose to not believe things that is your business but telling others they are wrong for it and doing your best to pull them away from their understanding is not your place. In fact go to the middle east and give it a go. I do not wait in anticipation of your story to be told by your hand

And this country was not formed to dissolve religion and spiritual freedom which is what it has turned into from the activists of a MINORITY. Seems to me those beliefs of a MINORITY have become something claimed to now be a majority. It is this minority that stole the truth and twisted it to their own understanding. Did you know that the capital building of the US served as a church building? This is the foundational blocks this country was built upon. The educational system centered around the fact that people wanted children to be able to read and write so they could study their bibles. I think you best rethink putting down the intents of this country until you learn its blocks of foundation
WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - Church in the U.S. Capitol

Your indignation is duly noted.

If you want to throw around terms like majority and minority then you are going to have to go back to social studies 101 where they patiently explained that the majority could not vote away the rights of the individual, let alone a minority.

The whole point about having individual rights protected by a secular government is because majorities are all too often wrong. Equal treatment under the law applies to everyone, irrespective of what they believe, or don't, as the case may be. My rights as an atheist are just as equal to your rights as a theist. Neither can override the rights of the other and the law is required to respect them on an individual basis. The majority does not get to override these individual rights no matter what they believe their religion tells them.

As far a public libraries and schools go you are wrong that it was to enable people to read their bibles.

The Founding Fathers started public libraries and schools because they based this nation of We the People on having an informed electorate. If We the People were illiterate then we would not be in any position to decide for ourselves what was best for our nation.

And in the interests of full disclosure I have been a public library trustee now for just under 2 decades.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm not an atheist. I think agnostic best describes my feelings about religion. I certainly don't believe in any of the man-made religions. I do not know whether there is some "higher power" that exists or not, however, I am very skeptical about it.

Every now and again I hear about something or experience something and think, well maybe there is a God?? Then my logical side takes over again.

 

[sealybobo]

Do you see the word "church" in here:

"Full Definition of SACRAMENT
1
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
b : a religious rite or observance comparable to a Christian sacrament "

?

Nope. You don't. Now go sit down, you piece of shit. You need to look up words before you presume to tell people what they mean.

You people do need to die.

Sacrament Definition of sacrament by Merriam-Webster

A fair representation of Christianity is this:

Acknowledging God is perfect in all ways and in control, that Jesus died for your sins and only through him will you be acceptable to God and living you life in obedience to God and His word.

That's ALL that is needed.

But he is not perfect in all ways. For example if I were God and the airplane on 9/11 was flying into the building? I would have stopped it. So in that way I'm better than God .
If I were God there would be no birth defects cancer or Alzheimers disease.

Your god isn't even close to being perfect.

Didn't he f*** up with the devil?

And how did Jesus die for my sins when I wasn't even born yet

Wow....there's a lot of stuff in there that is really a misunderstanding of Christianity. No one knows or should assume God's motives. The question of why God allows suffering and tragedy is something that has been pondered for thousands of years and no one has an answer. If we apply a little Taosim we find that what appears to be good can be very bad and what appears to be bad can turn out to be very good. There is the ancient example of the horse that ran away. That's sucked. But the horse came back with a mate of excellent stock. That's great. So the new horse threw the owner and crippled him. That sucks. But then the nation went to war and all the able bodied men went to fight and were killed, but the horse owner didn't go to fight because he was crippled. So he lived. That's great. And it goes on and on...but the point is that one never knows how things will turn out and what seems like a blessing today can turn out to be a nightmare and vice versa.

The devil was not part of the original Jewish belief system. The devil was created centuries later as a means to explain suffering and then hell was invented a few centuries after that. Hell and the devil are man made creations that attempt to explain why God allows suffering. Personally, I don't believe in either of them. I think everyone goes to heaven because there's nowhere else to go. So for me...just for me....God allows suffering because there is no real harm that can ever be done to the spirit. Harm can be done to us physically and emotionally, but when we die our spirits go back to God so in the grand scheme of things I think God views it in such a way that there really hasn't been any harm done. It sucks for us in our mortal existence and according to our physical understanding of the universe, but God views it differently because He is thinking on levels that we could not possibly comprehend. Now I don't know if that is the reason, but that's what makes sense to me.

As far as Jesus dying for your sins, boy that's a really long story. I will attempt brevity. Prior to Jesus, in order to get rid of your sins you had to go to the Temple, offer a sacrifice (usually a lamb or other small animal) and the priests would perform rites that cleansed you of your sins. Jesus became the sacrifice for all mankind. That's why you will sometimes hear Him referred to as the "lamb of God". Jesus became the sacrificial lamb on behalf of the sins of humanity for all times. Thus, there is no need to offer any further sacrifices or go the the priests to 'get to God'. The sacrifice has already been made and now we can go to God directly without having to go through the priests and performing rites etc. So through the sacrifice of Jesus, sin has been cleansed and man gains direct access to God. That's the short version.

Why is their suffering and death? That's life. Life isn't always fair. You could be an egg that never hatched. You could be an egg that ends up scrambled eggs. You could be a bird that's born and eaten by a fox as a baby. Or a bird raised in a slaughter house where they are crammed together. Or a chicken that grows old producing eggs.

Why do some chickens die of old age? Luck?

And there's no chicken heaven is there?

 

[featherlite]

Can one expect a non-Christian to understand without enlightenment? No.

Really?

All non-Christians lack enlightenment?

No wonder Ghandi was so unimpressed by all of the "enlightened" Christians who were screwing life up for tens of millions of devout Hindus.

Screw you! (kidding....)

I don't mean the "enlightenment" that to sound condescending (thought I know it does) - it's hard "knowing" the truth and trying to explain it to others. I'm a MESS I mean it De... really a MESS but I do know the truth. Even with God as my guide, it's hard! I wish I could explain it better. I just hope that someone out there can.. there are really good strong Christians out there.... I just hope they can make an impact... I know they can.....

You have to yield to the spirit and allow the bible and the holy spirit talk to you. It is why the bible is often called the "living" word but trying to explain things like that to someone who hasn't experienced it would be like explaining a cell phone to Abraham

It really is the LIVING word. I half heartedly at one time wanted to "get it" but couldn't. Pretending to want it doesn't count. I had to come to a place of repentance and be drawn to it.
Many life lessons in the Bible are completely based on logic and living a full complete life...always amazes me the so called intelligent logical ones never seem to understand that.
Definitely not something to read one month and let go for awhile.

 

[featherlite]

Do you see the word "church" in here:

"Full Definition of SACRAMENT
1
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
b : a religious rite or observance comparable to a Christian sacrament "

?

Nope. You don't. Now go sit down, you piece of shit. You need to look up words before you presume to tell people what they mean.

You people do need to die.

Sacrament Definition of sacrament by Merriam-Webster

A fair representation of Christianity is this:

Acknowledging God is perfect in all ways and in control, that Jesus died for your sins and only through him will you be acceptable to God and living you life in obedience to God and His word.

That's ALL that is needed.

But he is not perfect in all ways. For example if I were God and the airplane on 9/11 was flying into the building? I would have stopped it. So in that way I'm better than God .
If I were God there would be no birth defects cancer or Alzheimers disease.

Your god isn't even close to being perfect.

Didn't he f*** up with the devil?

And how did Jesus die for my sins when I wasn't even born yet

Wow....there's a lot of stuff in there that is really a misunderstanding of Christianity. No one knows or should assume God's motives. The question of why God allows suffering and tragedy is something that has been pondered for thousands of years and no one has an answer. If we apply a little Taosim we find that what appears to be good can be very bad and what appears to be bad can turn out to be very good. There is the ancient example of the horse that ran away. That's sucked. But the horse came back with a mate of excellent stock. That's great. So the new horse threw the owner and crippled him. That sucks. But then the nation went to war and all the able bodied men went to fight and were killed, but the horse owner didn't go to fight because he was crippled. So he lived. That's great. And it goes on and on...but the point is that one never knows how things will turn out and what seems like a blessing today can turn out to be a nightmare and vice versa.

The devil was not part of the original Jewish belief system. The devil was created centuries later as a means to explain suffering and then hell was invented a few centuries after that. Hell and the devil are man made creations that attempt to explain why God allows suffering. Personally, I don't believe in either of them. I think everyone goes to heaven because there's nowhere else to go. So for me...just for me....God allows suffering because there is no real harm that can ever be done to the spirit. Harm can be done to us physically and emotionally, but when we die our spirits go back to God so in the grand scheme of things I think God views it in such a way that there really hasn't been any harm done. It sucks for us in our mortal existence and according to our physical understanding of the universe, but God views it differently because He is thinking on levels that we could not possibly comprehend. Now I don't know if that is the reason, but that's what makes sense to me.

As far as Jesus dying for your sins, boy that's a really long story. I will attempt brevity. Prior to Jesus, in order to get rid of your sins you had to go to the Temple, offer a sacrifice (usually a lamb or other small animal) and the priests would perform rites that cleansed you of your sins. Jesus became the sacrifice for all mankind. That's why you will sometimes hear Him referred to as the "lamb of God". Jesus became the sacrificial lamb on behalf of the sins of humanity for all times. Thus, there is no need to offer any further sacrifices or go the the priests to 'get to God'. The sacrifice has already been made and now we can go to God directly without having to go through the priests and performing rites etc. So through the sacrifice of Jesus, sin has been cleansed and man gains direct access to God. That's the short version.

Why is their suffering and death? That's life. Life isn't always fair. You could be an egg that never hatched. You could be an egg that ends up scrambled eggs. You could be a bird that's born and eaten by a fox as a baby. Or a bird raised in a slaughter house where they are crammed together. Or a chicken that grows old producing eggs.

Why do some chickens die of old age? Luck?

And there's no chicken heaven is there?

...poor chickens last night were fed to ugly, grotesque walkers.
The dead.

 

[Ravi]

This is off the subject but I have to ask...why are those of you who are atheist all over the religious forums? If it is off the table for you then why are you still standing around the watering hole so to speak? Obviously there is something you seek.

I'm not an atheist but I certainly don't mind if they participate.

Is Trinity Power your porn name, btw?

 

[IsaacNewton]

Thank you for the clarification.

Yes, I was probably one of those you described who were taught what they were supposed to believe but never could buy into it.

And you know what? That's perfectly fine. I believe that God knows what is in our hearts and so if you don't believe it and you try to believe it, the only person you are fooling is going to be yourself. If God is who I think He is, you sure aint going to fool Him, so you might as well just be straight up about it.

Unlike you I chose to start believing in myself and what I could do for others. First and foremost I discovered that if I wanted to help others I needed to sort myself out. In that respect I made a pact with myself to never lie to myself under any circumstances, ever.

Unlike me? Are you under the impression that I do not believe in myself and do not focus on helping others? I believe God grants us opportunity but what we do with our lives is totally on us. I don't rely upon God to give me purpose in life. I rely upon God to grant me the opportunity to fulfill my purpose. What I do with the opportunities God grants me is totally on me. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

Then I decided I wasn't going to lie to anyone else either. (Yeah, that slammed a lot of doors to lucrative jobs I could have done but I have no regrets about that decision.) I am by nature a compassionate person so I do what I can for others. I don't do it out any sense of a "reward" and neither do I do it because of sense of compulsion. I just do it because there are people in need who I can help and so I volunteer and do whatever I can.

I make no attempt to reach them except on a human level. I don't expect anything in return because they are not in any position to give anything. They need my help and they get it without any strings attached.

I am actually very similar. Ask Trinity...my need to help people has gotten me in some very bad situations in the past. She was not pleased with me over some of them (Trinity is my wife in case you didn't know). I didn't do it out of a feeling of obligation to God, I did it because it's just who I am. I also try to reach people on a human level, I think. You notice I don't go around on these boards telling people what they should think and what they should believe. As I always say, my path is mine to walk and someone else's path is theirs to walk. I can share my experiences and my personal beliefs about God, but what someone else does with them is completely up to them and it makes no difference to me. If someone finds meaning in what I have to say, wonderful. If not, well that's fine too.

I used to tell my students to pay close attention to their professors and identify the traits they admire and copy them. One student said to me "well Phantom, what if we look at you and can't find a single thing we would want to copy?" and my answer was "then you have still learned something. You have learned what you don't want to be".

Just off hand I'd say the image you have as your signature is bearing false witness and passing judgement. Of course those parts of the bible aren't real important though.

 

[ChrisL]

Do you see the word "church" in here:

"Full Definition of SACRAMENT
1
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
b : a religious rite or observance comparable to a Christian sacrament "

?

Nope. You don't. Now go sit down, you piece of shit. You need to look up words before you presume to tell people what they mean.

You people do need to die.

Sacrament Definition of sacrament by Merriam-Webster

A fair representation of Christianity is this:

Acknowledging God is perfect in all ways and in control, that Jesus died for your sins and only through him will you be acceptable to God and living you life in obedience to God and His word.

That's ALL that is needed.

But he is not perfect in all ways. For example if I were God and the airplane on 9/11 was flying into the building? I would have stopped it. So in that way I'm better than God .
If I were God there would be no birth defects cancer or Alzheimers disease.

Your god isn't even close to being perfect.

Didn't he f*** up with the devil?

And how did Jesus die for my sins when I wasn't even born yet

Wow....there's a lot of stuff in there that is really a misunderstanding of Christianity. No one knows or should assume God's motives. The question of why God allows suffering and tragedy is something that has been pondered for thousands of years and no one has an answer. If we apply a little Taosim we find that what appears to be good can be very bad and what appears to be bad can turn out to be very good. There is the ancient example of the horse that ran away. That's sucked. But the horse came back with a mate of excellent stock. That's great. So the new horse threw the owner and crippled him. That sucks. But then the nation went to war and all the able bodied men went to fight and were killed, but the horse owner didn't go to fight because he was crippled. So he lived. That's great. And it goes on and on...but the point is that one never knows how things will turn out and what seems like a blessing today can turn out to be a nightmare and vice versa.

The devil was not part of the original Jewish belief system. The devil was created centuries later as a means to explain suffering and then hell was invented a few centuries after that. Hell and the devil are man made creations that attempt to explain why God allows suffering. Personally, I don't believe in either of them. I think everyone goes to heaven because there's nowhere else to go. So for me...just for me....God allows suffering because there is no real harm that can ever be done to the spirit. Harm can be done to us physically and emotionally, but when we die our spirits go back to God so in the grand scheme of things I think God views it in such a way that there really hasn't been any harm done. It sucks for us in our mortal existence and according to our physical understanding of the universe, but God views it differently because He is thinking on levels that we could not possibly comprehend. Now I don't know if that is the reason, but that's what makes sense to me.

As far as Jesus dying for your sins, boy that's a really long story. I will attempt brevity. Prior to Jesus, in order to get rid of your sins you had to go to the Temple, offer a sacrifice (usually a lamb or other small animal) and the priests would perform rites that cleansed you of your sins. Jesus became the sacrifice for all mankind. That's why you will sometimes hear Him referred to as the "lamb of God". Jesus became the sacrificial lamb on behalf of the sins of humanity for all times. Thus, there is no need to offer any further sacrifices or go the the priests to 'get to God'. The sacrifice has already been made and now we can go to God directly without having to go through the priests and performing rites etc. So through the sacrifice of Jesus, sin has been cleansed and man gains direct access to God. That's the short version.

Why is their suffering and death? That's life. Life isn't always fair. You could be an egg that never hatched. You could be an egg that ends up scrambled eggs. You could be a bird that's born and eaten by a fox as a baby. Or a bird raised in a slaughter house where they are crammed together. Or a chicken that grows old producing eggs.

Why do some chickens die of old age? Luck?

And there's no chicken heaven is there?

Where do you think fried chicken comes from? Lol.

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

 

[TrinityPower]

This is off the subject but I have to ask...why are those of you who are atheist all over the religious forums? If it is off the table for you then why are you still standing around the watering hole so to speak? Obviously there is something you seek.

I'm not an atheist but I certainly don't mind if they participate.

Is Trinity Power your porn name, btw?

Ha! That would be a good one. I could be the religious superhero able to whip men into crying out the name of Jesus in a single blow

 

[IsaacNewton]

Seems to me the MINORITY of you have managed to change the foundations of the US. Why is it that groups strive to be considered a minority and therefore demand special status? Why strive to be part of a group? Given you don't believe in God you can stop reading here...God made each and every person ever created with unique DNA and fingerprints. We were made to be individuals each given unique talents (graces) no one else has that are exactly the same so with that said every person could claim to be a minority by man's definition.

Jesus taught lessons, those who chose not to receive what he said didn't benefit from the teaching. He didn't grab their arms and plead with them to do so. He even spoke in parable about the word being taken by various means but some disregarded that and stayed with it. He spoke of these people because there were hecklers in the crowd but it didn't deter his message. If you choose to not believe things that is your business but telling others they are wrong for it and doing your best to pull them away from their understanding is not your place. In fact go to the middle east and give it a go. I do not wait in anticipation of your story to be told by your hand

And this country was not formed to dissolve religion and spiritual freedom which is what it has turned into from the activists of a MINORITY. Seems to me those beliefs of a MINORITY have become something claimed to now be a majority. It is this minority that stole the truth and twisted it to their own understanding. Did you know that the capital building of the US served as a church building? This is the foundational blocks this country was built upon. The educational system centered around the fact that people wanted children to be able to read and write so they could study their bibles. I think you best rethink putting down the intents of this country until you learn its blocks of foundation
WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - Church in the U.S. Capitol

The country was founded by Deists. Many of them thought Christianity an abomination on humanity and they said so.

Regarding the minority, do you mean..."what you do to the least of these my brothers you do also to me".

Jesus doesn't mince words, but kristians certainly pick and choose which ones they follow.

 

[Ravi]

This is off the subject but I have to ask...why are those of you who are atheist all over the religious forums? If it is off the table for you then why are you still standing around the watering hole so to speak? Obviously there is something you seek.

I'm not an atheist but I certainly don't mind if they participate.

Is Trinity Power your porn name, btw?

Ha! That would be a good one. I could be the religious superhero able to whip men into crying out the name of Jesus in a single blow

With that costume I agree

 

[TrinityPower]

It shows that people make assumptions upon appearances