Is this a fair representative of Christianity?

[aris2chat]

What you are doing in this thread is a bandaid IMO. Salving your conscience in an obscure thread on a message board with a couple of thousand readers at most is hardly the same thing as publicly denouncing people like her to the entire world.

And how would you suggest that is done for the average person? The average person has neither the time nor the resources to embark on a world-wide campaign denouncing "bad Christians".

Where are the genuine Christians denouncing those who are advocating hatred for gays? Who is the voice of Christianity speaking for Jesus and recognizing that we are all equal under the law and under the eyes of your God?

Or are you saying that under your God's eyes there is no equality and that KG and her vile ilk are right about gays?

You know my position on that topic and you know I have been quite vocal about it. I see no need to repeat it here YET AGAIN. I am not the only one. There are many Christians who champion the rights of the gay community. They are just not the ones who get the press. News media does not get ratings by showing me having a patient and rational discussion about homosexuality and faith. What gets ratings are the Koshergrls who run around baring their teeth. That's a media problem not a Christianity problem.

If you don't see that as a Christianity problem then you have to deal with the negative perception of Christianity that others have of you because of the KG's out there.

'

Christian's are so passionate about their beliefs that it becomes personal instead of about God and others.
A gay person is no different than a smoker in this sense....

If you are a non-Christian homosexual, there is no reason for you NOT to be homosexual
If you are a non-Christian smoker there is not reason for you NOT to smoke.

If you are a CHRISTIAN homosexual, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire for the same sex.
If you are a CHRISTIAN smoker, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire to smoke.

BOTH are forms of defiling you body, which, as a Christian, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. (scriptural).

If we want to talk secular legalities, that is another topic entirely.

Religious views on smoking - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Bonzi]

Really? I used to be an Athiest so that is interesting....

God's love is not dependent upon our actions. If I said it, that's my error. But we are back to the other thread of freewill. God created us with freewill, so, we can choose to love him back or not. Because God is perfect and holy, only those covered in Jesus' blood (figuratively) can enter into his presence. If you reject that Jesus died for your sins, you are rejecting God's gift of salvations and eternal life. Because you have the freewill to do so.

This doesn't mean God doesn't love you.

Your child may choose to disown you, but you still love them, correct? Not all parents would....
The difference with God is that he wants everyone to come to Him because he loves them, but, many will choose their own way instead....

You made these fallacious claims about atheists;

"Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's."​

That reeks of ignorance about atheists.

Where is your evidence that atheists "want it their own way"?

Where is your evidence that atheists "think their way is better than God's"?

I can only speak to my own experience as a former Atheist.

What I mean by "their own way" is they want to live by what is "right in their own mind". It may be a self-sacrificial lifestyle, but, unless it's for the glory of God, ultimately, its as filthy rags.

An Atheist doesn't believe in God so, by reason, their (Human way) is the only way.

I don't believe there is a "doctrine of Atheism" - people that don't believe in God have various beliefs regarding the meaning of life and why we are here.... inclusive of what I used to believe....Life: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing....

What do YOU believe?

Ever heard the expression there are none so zealous as the recently converted?

That is exactly how you are coming across.

You asked...

What do YOU believe?

I DON'T believe in superstitions that were invented to control others.

If I "believe" in anything at all it is in We the People to reach a more perfect union.

My personal values have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Instead I came to them by thinking through all of the ethical situations that everyone faces and how I am going to live with myself and my nearest and dearest. I treat others they way I expect to be treated myself. I set a very high bar for myself to live bar and I expect others to rise to my level because I won't stoop to theirs.

But those are values, not beliefs.

The single most important value that I have is that I will never lie to myself about anything. I am brutally honest about myself and my shortcomings and how I deal with them when I fail to live up to my own values.

So I see no benefit to wasting my life trying to deceive myself into "believing" something for which there is no basis of "truth" whatsoever.

Your God has feet of clay. He is capricious, jealous, vain, callous, arrogant and a sociopathic mass murderer according to your own "word of God". He obviously doesn't "love" those who don't buy his snake oil because he is willing to inflict eternal punishment on his own creations.

In summary your God is insane.

I will place my "faith" in We the People because so far WTP are consistently getting better at taking care of each other than your God has managed to do over the past two thousand years.

Not sure what you consider "recently" but it has been over 13 years since I've given my life to Jesus and have been baptized.

Truth is not always what is touched, but what is experienced.
How can you deny a truth experienced by so many, and having made so powerful an impact?
How can you not even CONSIDER it, calling yourself and intellectual and open minded person?

You didn't even get past the first sentence of what I posted?

I read it all hon. If you believe God is a superstition, I am not sure why you are even interested in a conversation.....

Many people believe like you do. You are certainly not alone.

 

[Bonzi]

What you are doing in this thread is a bandaid IMO. Salving your conscience in an obscure thread on a message board with a couple of thousand readers at most is hardly the same thing as publicly denouncing people like her to the entire world.

And how would you suggest that is done for the average person? The average person has neither the time nor the resources to embark on a world-wide campaign denouncing "bad Christians".

Where are the genuine Christians denouncing those who are advocating hatred for gays? Who is the voice of Christianity speaking for Jesus and recognizing that we are all equal under the law and under the eyes of your God?

Or are you saying that under your God's eyes there is no equality and that KG and her vile ilk are right about gays?

You know my position on that topic and you know I have been quite vocal about it. I see no need to repeat it here YET AGAIN. I am not the only one. There are many Christians who champion the rights of the gay community. They are just not the ones who get the press. News media does not get ratings by showing me having a patient and rational discussion about homosexuality and faith. What gets ratings are the Koshergrls who run around baring their teeth. That's a media problem not a Christianity problem.

If you don't see that as a Christianity problem then you have to deal with the negative perception of Christianity that others have of you because of the KG's out there.

'

Christian's are so passionate about their beliefs that it becomes personal instead of about God and others.
A gay person is no different than a smoker in this sense....

If you are a non-Christian homosexual, there is no reason for you NOT to be homosexual
If you are a non-Christian smoker there is not reason for you NOT to smoke.

If you are a CHRISTIAN homosexual, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire for the same sex.
If you are a CHRISTIAN smoker, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire to smoke.

BOTH are forms of defiling you body, which, as a Christian, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. (scriptural).

If we want to talk secular legalities, that is another topic entirely.

Religious views on smoking - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I use the Bible and my personal relationship with God as my guide, not Wikipedia.

 

[Derideo_Te]

If you don't see that as a Christianity problem then you have to deal with the negative perception of Christianity that others have of you because of the KG's out there.

I do see it as a problem but it is not a problem exclusive to Christianity. We see it in politics from both sides of the aisle. We see it in foreign relations. We see it in every demographic is society. It is the extremists that get the attention although they do not represent the majority view. Let me give you an example of something happening right now in Portland.

There is a small sect of local feminists who have launched what they are calling the "free flow movement". The concept is that menstruation, being a natural function of the human female body, need not be hidden. Tampons and pads, they argue, represent the repression of their femininity and their feminine power by a male-dominated, repressive society. So...they refuse to use them....they just flow freely. Because it will destroy their clothes, they usually wear skirts during their menstrual cycle so it essentially just runs down their legs onto the ground and they have no problem walking through shopping malls and going to restaurants in this condition.

Now does that represent the common view of even strong feminists? Of course not! Thankfully they are a very small minority and the movement is not gaining many adherents. But they sure get a hell of a lot of attention when you run into one. So when you see that, it creates a very bad image of the feminist movement even though it does not represent the majority view.

But I cannot control what FoxNews, MSNBC, CNN, Rush Limbaugh, Rachel Maddow, Bill Maher, Sean Hannity and the rest of them say and choose to broadcast. I have no control over that except not to contribute to their ratings.

In essence you and I are on the same page here.

You can't do anything about the negative image of Christianity any more than I can do anything about the negative image of atheism.

But I have no interest in converting anyone.

You can't say the same for Christianity.

Hence there is an image problem even if you are not willing to address it.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You made these fallacious claims about atheists;

"Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's."​

That reeks of ignorance about atheists.

Where is your evidence that atheists "want it their own way"?

Where is your evidence that atheists "think their way is better than God's"?

I can only speak to my own experience as a former Atheist.

What I mean by "their own way" is they want to live by what is "right in their own mind". It may be a self-sacrificial lifestyle, but, unless it's for the glory of God, ultimately, its as filthy rags.

An Atheist doesn't believe in God so, by reason, their (Human way) is the only way.

I don't believe there is a "doctrine of Atheism" - people that don't believe in God have various beliefs regarding the meaning of life and why we are here.... inclusive of what I used to believe....Life: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing....

What do YOU believe?

Ever heard the expression there are none so zealous as the recently converted?

That is exactly how you are coming across.

You asked...

What do YOU believe?

I DON'T believe in superstitions that were invented to control others.

If I "believe" in anything at all it is in We the People to reach a more perfect union.

My personal values have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Instead I came to them by thinking through all of the ethical situations that everyone faces and how I am going to live with myself and my nearest and dearest. I treat others they way I expect to be treated myself. I set a very high bar for myself to live bar and I expect others to rise to my level because I won't stoop to theirs.

But those are values, not beliefs.

The single most important value that I have is that I will never lie to myself about anything. I am brutally honest about myself and my shortcomings and how I deal with them when I fail to live up to my own values.

So I see no benefit to wasting my life trying to deceive myself into "believing" something for which there is no basis of "truth" whatsoever.

Your God has feet of clay. He is capricious, jealous, vain, callous, arrogant and a sociopathic mass murderer according to your own "word of God". He obviously doesn't "love" those who don't buy his snake oil because he is willing to inflict eternal punishment on his own creations.

In summary your God is insane.

I will place my "faith" in We the People because so far WTP are consistently getting better at taking care of each other than your God has managed to do over the past two thousand years.

Not sure what you consider "recently" but it has been over 13 years since I've given my life to Jesus and have been baptized.

Truth is not always what is touched, but what is experienced.
How can you deny a truth experienced by so many, and having made so powerful an impact?
How can you not even CONSIDER it, calling yourself and intellectual and open minded person?

You didn't even get past the first sentence of what I posted?

I read it all hon. If you believe God is a superstition, I am not sure why you are even interested in a conversation.....

Many people believe like you do. You are certainly not alone.

I don't believe like you do!

Not even close!

 

[Derideo_Te]

What you are doing in this thread is a bandaid IMO. Salving your conscience in an obscure thread on a message board with a couple of thousand readers at most is hardly the same thing as publicly denouncing people like her to the entire world.

And how would you suggest that is done for the average person? The average person has neither the time nor the resources to embark on a world-wide campaign denouncing "bad Christians".

Where are the genuine Christians denouncing those who are advocating hatred for gays? Who is the voice of Christianity speaking for Jesus and recognizing that we are all equal under the law and under the eyes of your God?

Or are you saying that under your God's eyes there is no equality and that KG and her vile ilk are right about gays?

You know my position on that topic and you know I have been quite vocal about it. I see no need to repeat it here YET AGAIN. I am not the only one. There are many Christians who champion the rights of the gay community. They are just not the ones who get the press. News media does not get ratings by showing me having a patient and rational discussion about homosexuality and faith. What gets ratings are the Koshergrls who run around baring their teeth. That's a media problem not a Christianity problem.

If you don't see that as a Christianity problem then you have to deal with the negative perception of Christianity that others have of you because of the KG's out there.

'

Christian's are so passionate about their beliefs that it becomes personal instead of about God and others.
A gay person is no different than a smoker in this sense....

If you are a non-Christian homosexual, there is no reason for you NOT to be homosexual
If you are a non-Christian smoker there is not reason for you NOT to smoke.

If you are a CHRISTIAN homosexual, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire for the same sex.
If you are a CHRISTIAN smoker, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire to smoke.

BOTH are forms of defiling you body, which, as a Christian, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. (scriptural).

If we want to talk secular legalities, that is another topic entirely.

Religious views on smoking - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I use the Bible and my personal relationship with God as my guide, not Wikipedia.

Ignorance is not something to be proud of.

 

[BluePhantom]

In essence you and I are on the same page here.

You can't do anything about the negative image of Christianity any more than I can do anything about the negative image of atheism.

But I have no interest in converting anyone.

You can't say the same for Christianity.

Hence there is an image problem even if you are not willing to address it.

Well personally I am not terribly interested in converting anyone either. If someone comes to me and says "tell me about God" I will tell them what I believe and how God has affected my life. What they do with that is completely up to them. Christianity and Islam are very unique actually in their interest in converting people. Most religions throughout history has not made converting people such a central point. There is a reason why both religions do this but that's a thread unto itself.

 

[TrinityPower]

Believing something or not is a choice. Each person chooses to do this or that. It is the liberty of free will. If someone shares God with you and you say no thank you that's fine but why participate in conversations where those of similar beliefs are fellowshipping when the motive to do so is just to disrupt? That is totally self centered. When those who did not choose to welcome Jesus teaching he told his disciples to shake the dust from their sandals of that place and boogie on to where they would be welcome. He didn't pound it into their brain that they had to do what he said. If you choose not to welcome what is being offered then say no thanks and move along. Don't be a heckler, it is just bad form and it shows everyone else how incredibly self absorbed you are

 

[Derideo_Te]

Believing something or not is a choice. Each person chooses to do this or that. It is the liberty of free will. If someone shares God with you and you say no thank you that's fine but why participate in conversations where those of similar beliefs are fellowshipping when the motive to do so is just to disrupt? That is totally self centered. When those who did not choose to welcome Jesus teaching he told his disciples to shake the dust from their sandals of that place and boogie on to where they would be welcome. He didn't pound it into their brain that they had to do what he said. If you choose not to welcome what is being offered then say no thanks and move along. Don't be a heckler, it is just bad form and it shows everyone else how incredibly self absorbed you are

Didn't we already have this conversation?

 

[presonorek]

a whole lotta fucking ammo to use against me when the three of us engage in a rational and productive discussion on religion. She is about in stage two of James Fowler's stages of faith and I doubt she will ever advance to stage three.

I got my book in the mail today (The States of Faith by James Fowler). I look forward to discussing it with you sometime in the future.

 

[BluePhantom]

a whole lotta fucking ammo to use against me when the three of us engage in a rational and productive discussion on religion. She is about in stage two of James Fowler's stages of faith and I doubt she will ever advance to stage three.

I got my book in the mail today (The States of Faith by James Fowler). I look forward to discussing it with you sometime in the future.

Oh awesome. I think you will enjoy it. I don't agree with everything Fowler suggests...particularly stage 6, but it's a very solid breakdown. I hope you enjoy it