Is the US a democracy?

[Dragon]

Poor jillian is going to snap a gasket when she finds out she has been grouped with the republicans.......[/COLOR]

Not necessarily. There was a time in U.S. history when I would have been a Republican. (It was before I was born, but still there was such a time.) Why not her, too?

 

[Intense]

I wonder why none of the right are rushing in to say we are NOT a democracy?

Specifically, We are a Constitutional Republic, Federalist in Nature and Principle.

 

[naturegirl]

TM, do we elect our representatives by popular vote?? Does a president win an election because he gets the most votes?? In a true democracy we would not have electoral colleges.

We do elect our representatives by popular vote, yes. The EC is the only remaining non-democratic vestige of the original system, and the only reason it is still there is because it does not, in practice, violate democracy most of the time. Only twice in all of the presidential elections has the winner of the popular vote failed to win the EC vote as well. When that does happen, as in 2000, there is widespread perception that something has gone wrong, and movements arise to abolish the anachronism.

We are, at this point, supposed to be a democracy.

And you got these words of wisdom from who?? Did Thomas Jefferson tell you we are supposed to be a democracy?? Again, I point you to this quote he made. He completely understood MOB RULE.

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”
~Thomas Jefferson~

 

[Truthmatters]

they refuse the words of Jefferson.

how sick are these people?

 

[The T]

I wonder why none of the right are rushing in to say we are NOT a democracy?

Specifically, We are a Constitutional Republic, Federalist in Nature and Principle.

Key word...meaning soverign.

 

[Intense]

Federalism
First published Sun Jan 5, 2003; substantive revision Tue Mar 9, 2010

Federalism is the theory or advocacy of federal principles for dividing powers between member units and common institutions. Unlike in a unitary state, sovereignty in federal political orders is non-centralized, often constitutionally, between at least two levels so that units at each level have final authority and can be self governing in some issue area. Citizens thus have political obligations to, or have their rights secured by, two authorities. The division of power between the member unit and center may vary, typically the center has powers regarding defense and foreign policy, but member units may also have international roles. The decision-making bodies of member units may also participate in central decision-making bodies. Much recent philosophical attention is spurred by renewed political interest in federalism, coupled with empirical findings concerning the requisite and legitimate basis for stability and trust among citizens in federal political orders. Philosophical contributions have addressed the dilemmas and opportunities facing Canada, Australia, Europe, Russia, Iraq, Nepal and Nigeria, to mention just a few areas where federal arrangements are seen as interesting solutions to accommodate differences among populations divided by ethnic or cultural cleavages yet seeking a common, often democratic, political order.

1. Taxonomy
2. History of Federalism in Western Thought
3. Reasons for Federalism
3.1 Reasons for a federal order rather than separate states or secession
3.2 Reasons for preferring federal orders over a unitary state
4. Further Philosophical Issues
4.1 Issues of Constitutional and Institutional Design
4.2 Sources of Stability
4.3 Division of Power
4.4 Distributive Justice
4.5 Democratic Theory
4.6 Politics of Recognition
Bibliography
Historical
Contemporary
Other Internet Resources
Related Entries
Federalism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[WillowTree]

they refuse the words of Jefferson.

how sick are these people?

too sick for you to hang around with.. it's contagious.

 

[Dragon]

And you got these words of wisdom from who??

Did I need to get them from anyone? I have a brain of my own, you know. I assume you do, too. I recommend using it.

We are a democratic republic. That means we are a democracy. The EC is a vestigial structure that, on rare occasions, violates the democratic principles on which the U.S. is based today. That is why I would like to see it abolished, but since it hardly ever happens it's not an urgent concern.

 

[Intense]

they refuse the words of Jefferson.

how sick are these people?

You are like a kid lost at the beach. Hint.... Head for the Nearest Life Guard Station.

 

[naturegirl]

they refuse the words of Jefferson.

how sick are these people?

In the words of Jefferson, I guess you missed this before, just like Dragon.

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”
~Thomas Jefferson~

 

[Dragon]

Intense, "federalism" isn't in conflict with "democracy" anymore than "republic" is.

Naturegirl: beware of taking quotes out of context. Any government can violate the rights of individuals. That's why we have the Bill of Rights. We had the Bill of Rights before we were a democracy, and now that we are one, we still have it. Two separate issues that should not be confused.

 

[Truthmatters]

Search the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia



Thomas Jefferson Collection | Jeffersonian Encyclopedia homepage
University of Virginia Library

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7270. REPRESENTATION, Democratic. --


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7270. REPRESENTATION, Democratic. --
View page | View section
The full experiment of a government democratical, but representative, was and is still reserved for us. The idea (taken, indeed, from the little specimen formerly existing in the English constitution, but now lost) has been carried by us, more or less, into all our legislative and executive departments; but it has not yet, by any of us, been pushed into all the ramifications of the system, so far as to leave no authority existing not responsible to the people; whose rights, however, to the exercise and fruits of their own industry, can never be protected against the selfishness of rulers not subject to their control at short periods. The introduction of this new principle of representative democracy has rendered useless almost everything written before on the structure of government; and, in a great measure, relieves our regret, if the political writings of Aristotle, or of any other ancient, have been lost, or are unfaithfully rendered or explained to us. --

TITLE: To Isaac H. Tiffany.
EDITION: Washington ed. vii, 32.
PLACE: Monticello
DATE: 1816

This is a letter that Jefferson wrote.

It is fully documented and is an historical document.


He called us a Democracy.


Its undeniable what he thought about Democracy.


Why does the right repetedly lie and say we are not a democracy?

 

[Intense]

Federalism in the 1790s

Federalism was the most influential political movement arising out of discontent with the Articles of Confederation, which focused on limiting the authority of the federal government. For example, the Articles allowed the Continental Congress the power to sign treaties or declare war, but it was essentially powerless to do so because all major decisions required a unanimous vote.[2]

The movement was greatly strengthened by the reaction to Shays' Rebellion of 1786–1787, which was an armed uprising of yeoman farmers in western Massachusetts. The rebellion was fueled by a poor economy that was created, in part, by the inability of the federal government to deal effectively with the debt from the American Revolution. Moreover, the federal government had proven incapable of raising an army to quell the rebellion, so that Massachusetts had been forced to raise its own.

In 1787, fifty-five delegates met at a Constitutional convention in Philadelphia and generated ideas of a bicameral legislature (United States Congress), balanced representation of small and large states (Great Compromise), and checks and balances. James Madison stated in a long pre-convention memorandum to delegates that because "one could hardly expect the state legislatures to take enlightened views on national affairs", stronger central government was necessary.[3] This convention almost immediately dropped its original mandate and instead set about constructing a new Constitution of the United States. Once the convention concluded and released the Constitution for public consumption, the Federalist movement became focused on getting the Constitution ratified.

The most forceful defense of the new Constitution was The Federalist Papers, a compilation of 85 anonymous essays published in New York City to convince the people of the state to vote for ratification. These articles, written by Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, with some contributed by John Jay, examined the benefits of the new, proposed Constitution, and analyzed the political theory and function behind the various articles of the Constitution. The Federalist Papers remains one of the most important documents in American political science.

Those opposed to the new Constitution became known as the "Anti-Federalists". They generally were local rather than cosmopolitan in perspective, oriented to plantations and farms rather than commerce or finance, and wanted strong state governments and a weak national government. The Anti-Federalist critique soon centered on the absence of a Bill of Rights, which Federalists promised to provide.

Because George Washington lent his prestige to the Constitution and because of the ingenuity and organizational skills of its proponents, the Constitution was ratified by all the states. The outgoing Congress under the Articles of Confederation scheduled elections for the new government, and set March 4, 1789 as the date that the new government would take power. In 1789, Congress submitted twelve articles of amendment to the states. Ten of these articles, written by Madison, achieved passage on December 15, 1791 and became the Bill of Rights. The Tenth Amendment set the guidelines for federalism in the United States.

With the passage of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, the first Federalist movement and the Anti-Federalist movements were exhausted, so they dispersed.

Federalism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The T]

they refuse the words of Jefferson.

how sick are these people?

Jefferson also wrote the Declaration and was codified in the Constitution which includes the word GOD. Leftists deny it...so that must mean that even leftists as you are in denial of jefferson as well following YOUR (sic) logic.

 

[naturegirl]

Search the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia



Thomas Jefferson Collection | Jeffersonian Encyclopedia homepage
University of Virginia Library

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


7270. REPRESENTATION, Democratic. --


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7270. REPRESENTATION, Democratic. --
View page | View section
The full experiment of a government democratical, but representative, was and is still reserved for us. The idea (taken, indeed, from the little specimen formerly existing in the English constitution, but now lost) has been carried by us, more or less, into all our legislative and executive departments; but it has not yet, by any of us, been pushed into all the ramifications of the system, so far as to leave no authority existing not responsible to the people; whose rights, however, to the exercise and fruits of their own industry, can never be protected against the selfishness of rulers not subject to their control at short periods. The introduction of this new principle of representative democracy has rendered useless almost everything written before on the structure of government; and, in a great measure, relieves our regret, if the political writings of Aristotle, or of any other ancient, have been lost, or are unfaithfully rendered or explained to us. --

TITLE: To Isaac H. Tiffany.
EDITION: Washington ed. vii, 32.
PLACE: Monticello
DATE: 1816

This is a letter that Jefferson wrote.

It is fully documented and is an historical document.


He called us a Democracy.


Its undeniable what he thought about Democracy.


Why does the right repetedly lie and say we are not a democracy?

Ok, you win. Jefferson lied when he said Democracy is MOB RULE. Does that make you feel better??

 

[Truthmatters]

they refuse the words of Jefferson.

how sick are these people?

In the words of Jefferson, I guess you missed this before, just like Dragon.

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”
~Thomas Jefferson~

Go get the paragraph that quote is from.

 

[peach174]

they refuse the words of Jefferson.

how sick are these people?

None of us is refusing the words of Jefferson.
Your the one refusing to read and learn the difference between the two words.

 

[Truthmatters]

what two words peach?

 

[Intense]

Search the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia



Thomas Jefferson Collection | Jeffersonian Encyclopedia homepage
University of Virginia Library

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


7270. REPRESENTATION, Democratic. --


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7270. REPRESENTATION, Democratic. --
View page | View section
The full experiment of a government democratical, but representative, was and is still reserved for us. The idea (taken, indeed, from the little specimen formerly existing in the English constitution, but now lost) has been carried by us, more or less, into all our legislative and executive departments; but it has not yet, by any of us, been pushed into all the ramifications of the system, so far as to leave no authority existing not responsible to the people; whose rights, however, to the exercise and fruits of their own industry, can never be protected against the selfishness of rulers not subject to their control at short periods. The introduction of this new principle of representative democracy has rendered useless almost everything written before on the structure of government; and, in a great measure, relieves our regret, if the political writings of Aristotle, or of any other ancient, have been lost, or are unfaithfully rendered or explained to us. --

TITLE: To Isaac H. Tiffany.
EDITION: Washington ed. vii, 32.
PLACE: Monticello
DATE: 1816

This is a letter that Jefferson wrote.

It is fully documented and is an historical document.


He called us a Democracy.


Its undeniable what he thought about Democracy.


Why does the right repetedly lie and say we are not a democracy?

You have it wrong again TM. It is not that we are not a Democracy, it is that the term is too broad. We are a Federalist Republic, more specifically. Who should we blame for your lack of comprehension skills? The Teachers Unions? Progressivism. We are not ruled by the whims of the angry Horde TM. Sorry to disappoint you. We are Ruled by the Rule of Law, and Reason when permitted.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Earliest known appearance in print: 2004[1][2] Democracy is nothing more than mob rule... « Thomas Jefferson

Other attributions: None known.

Status: We currently have no evidence to confirm that Thomas Jefferson ever said or wrote, "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%" or any of its listed variations. We do not know the source of this statement's attribution to Thomas Jefferson.

Footnotes

↑ Ken Schoolland, The Adventures of Jonathan Gullible: A Free Market Odyssey (Cape Town, South Africa: Leap Publishing, 2004), 235. PDF version available online.
↑ To establish the earliest appearance of this phrase in print, the following sources were searched for the phrase, "democracy is nothing more than mob rule": Google Books, Google Scholar, Amazon.com, Internet Archive, America's Historical Newspapers, American Broadsides and Ephemera Series I, Early American Imprints Series I and II, Early English Books Online, Eighteenth Century Collections Online, 19th Century U.S. Newspapers, American Periodicals Series Online, JSTOR.