Is the US a democracy?

[Dr Grump]

I like it when lib folks and outsiders tell us how wrong we are ("we" being the right wing nuts and so forth) in asserting that we are a republic rather than a democracy.

Never mind the fact that we plainly ARE a republic and not a democracy.

BTW, there ARE elements of a democracy in our republic, but we became a republic for good reasons and part of that was to avoid being a democracy.

History. Get to know it.

Get to know words and their meanings. You are a republican democracy. You know there was a time when democracy was not a bad word....

 

[The T]

I like it when lib folks and outsiders tell us how wrong we are ("we" being the right wing nuts and so forth) in asserting that we are a republic rather than a democracy.

Never mind the fact that we plainly ARE a republic and not a democracy.

BTW, there ARE elements of a democracy in our republic, but we became a republic for good reasons and part of that was to avoid being a democracy.

History. Get to know it.

Get to know words and their meanings. You are a republican democracy. You know there was a time when democracy was not a bad word....

We are a Republic. YOU on the otherhand live in a Sheepocracy.

Get lost fuzzy foreigner.

 

[Amelia]

I like it when lib folks and outsiders tell us how wrong we are ("we" being the right wing nuts and so forth) in asserting that we are a republic rather than a democracy.

Never mind the fact that we plainly ARE a republic and not a democracy.

BTW, there ARE elements of a democracy in our republic, but we became a republic for good reasons and part of that was to avoid being a democracy.

History. Get to know it.

Get to know words and their meanings. You are a republican democracy. You know there was a time when democracy was not a bad word....

I'm pretty sure Lincoln considered the U.S. a democracy. His definition of democracy was "government of the people, by the people, for the people" and that's what the Civil War was being fought to preserve.

Of course I'm not sure how he would have answered the question if it were posed directly, but then again ... would anyone have asked it directly in 1850?



I'm curious about how many other presidents did or might have called the U.S. a democracy.

 

[Dr Grump]

I like it when lib folks and outsiders tell us how wrong we are ("we" being the right wing nuts and so forth) in asserting that we are a republic rather than a democracy.

Never mind the fact that we plainly ARE a republic and not a democracy.

BTW, there ARE elements of a democracy in our republic, but we became a republic for good reasons and part of that was to avoid being a democracy.

History. Get to know it.

Get to know words and their meanings. You are a republican democracy. You know there was a time when democracy was not a bad word....

I'm pretty sure Lincoln considered the U.S. a democracy. His definition of democracy was "government of the people, by the people, for the people" and that's what the Civil War was being fought to preserve.

Of course I'm not sure how he would have answered the question if it were posed directly, but then again ... would anyone have asked it directly in 1850?



I'm curious about how many other presidents did or might have called the U.S. a democracy.

Bush definitely talked about bringing 'democracy' or Iraq and Afghanistan...

 

[Peach]

Professor Alexander Fraser Tyler
wrote this when the states were still colonies of Great Britain.
He explained why democracies fail

A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

Largess means liberal giving of money.

This is exactly why our founders did not want us to be a Democracy in any way shape or form.
This is what they meant in their papers when they wrote that democracies always fail.

Democracy has many different meanings.

I am a NZer and we have a democracy and it has not failed. I now live in Australia, which is also a democracy, which also has not failed.

Ditto most of western Europe.

Note that we all have different forms of govt. With the uK it is FPP, with NZ is is MMP, with you guys it is a Republic. But they are all forms of democracy.

And obviously Tyler was wrong....

And I could give a good argument that your form of democracy has/is failed/failing...

That's why we want to try and get back to the Republic that we are suppose to be.
The government we have now is about controlling us,( social democracy) we will try, and I think that eventually we will win, as the majority of this nation is waking up out of their stupor.
It's a fight between those who are in power (with both parties) in Washington D.C. versus the majority of the people of this nation.

Note that we all have different forms of govt. With the uK it is FPP, with NZ is is MMP, with you guys it is a Republic. But they are all forms of democracy.
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Agreed! But the Federalist Papers argue against only a PURE democracy; our form of government is mix of direct vote for representative vote. The Electoral College anomaly in 2000 happened several times before. We survived Presidents that lost the popular vote by SLIM margins, and will again should it occur.

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PS: I looked and cannot see how to change my screen name, sorry I registered as PEACH. I did so in 2009 only to read about a subject I was interested in.

 

[Robodoon]

tell us why you believe it is or is not.

You show your dog, you show a lot. eyes.

But the talking never stops.

 

[Dr Grump]

Democracy has many different meanings.

I am a NZer and we have a democracy and it has not failed. I now live in Australia, which is also a democracy, which also has not failed.

Ditto most of western Europe.

Note that we all have different forms of govt. With the uK it is FPP, with NZ is is MMP, with you guys it is a Republic. But they are all forms of democracy.

And obviously Tyler was wrong....

And I could give a good argument that your form of democracy has/is failed/failing...

That's why we want to try and get back to the Republic that we are suppose to be.
The government we have now is about controlling us,( social democracy) we will try, and I think that eventually we will win, as the majority of this nation is waking up out of their stupor.
It's a fight between those who are in power (with both parties) in Washington D.C. versus the majority of the people of this nation.

Note that we all have different forms of govt. With the uK it is FPP, with NZ is is MMP, with you guys it is a Republic. But they are all forms of democracy.
*********************************************

Agreed! But the Federalist Papers argue against only a PURE democracy; our form of government is mix of direct vote for representative vote. The Electoral College anomaly in 2000 happened several times before. We survived Presidents that lost the popular vote by SLIM margins, and will again should it occur.

**********************************************
PS: I looked and cannot see how to change my screen name, sorry I registered as PEACH. I did so in 2009 only to read about a subject I was interested in.

What is the definition of "Pure democracy?" FPP??

 

[beachbum81]

If it's not a democracy then what is it?

 

[DiamondDave]

If it's not a democracy then what is it?

Constitutional Representative Republic..

Learn it... love it.. embrace it... and call for it to be run as it is/was intended

 

[Peach]

If it's not a democracy then what is it?

Constitutional Representative Republic..

Learn it... love it.. embrace it... and call for it to be run as it is/was intended

And Republican loons? Bundy was a Young Republican, Timothy McVeigh, an extreme right wingnut; luckily, they are gone for good. But so many unhinged extremists remain, it is a concern of decent Americans. al Qaeda is not real LIBERAL either.

 

[Liability]

If it's not a democracy then what is it?

Damn. You ARE kinda dense.

Here, let me share something with you:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/4804591-post209.html <--- it's a hyperlink to the post after yours. Don't be afraid to click and read.

 

[Peach]

Pfft. If the Republicans didn't care for your choices, they'd just toss you out.

i actually like michael steele now that he doesn't have to pretend the lunatics aren't lunatics.

You think you'll ever get to that stage in the Democratic party? Recognizing your lunatics, I mean.

And your position on Iraq? The Pope had the decency to speak out against it; have YOU?

 

[Dr Grump]

I like it when lib folks and outsiders tell us how wrong we are ("we" being the right wing nuts and so forth) in asserting that we are a republic rather than a democracy.

Never mind the fact that we plainly ARE a republic and not a democracy.

BTW, there ARE elements of a democracy in our republic, but we became a republic for good reasons and part of that was to avoid being a democracy.

History. Get to know it.

Get to know words and their meanings. You are a republican democracy. You know there was a time when democracy was not a bad word....

We are a Republic. YOU on the otherhand live in a Sheepocracy.

Get lost fuzzy foreigner.

You haven't a clue.....

 

[Peach]

If it's not a democracy then what is it?

Damn. You ARE kinda dense.

Here, let me share something with you:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/4804591-post209.html <--- it's a hyperlink to the post after yours. Don't be afraid to click and read.

ONE more time, note the Constitution which has "WE THE PEOPLE" is an actual part of our historical foundation; the Pledge was written in 1892, not part of the foundation of this nation:

In coming to a conclusion in reference to the question of this article we are a combination of both a republic and a democracy. The manner in which republics and democracies function have basic elements which can be seen embodied in our form of government. We are basically a representative type of government which fits the definition of a constitutional republic and a representative democracy.

 

[Dr Grump]

From Wiki:

Though a constitutional republic is not a pure democracy it necessarily has some democratic elements, such as the ability of the people to elect a president (in the U.S. the majority of the population is checked here too, as the popular vote of the people does not necessarily decide the winner). Nations where the head of state is not elected, as in a monarchy, as not elected but has a parliament with elected representatives that govern according to constitutional law protecting individual rights are called constitutional, democratic monarchies). Both are considered liberal democracies because they protect individual liberty from majority and minority forces, while retaining some democratic elements.

Also, a representative democracy may or may not be a constitutional republic. For example, "the United States relies on representative democracy, but [its] system of government is much more complex than that. [It is] not a simple representative democracy, but a constitutional republic in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law."[6]

 

[Peach]

From Wiki:

Though a constitutional republic is not a pure democracy it necessarily has some democratic elements, such as the ability of the people to elect a president (in the U.S. the majority of the population is checked here too, as the popular vote of the people does not necessarily decide the winner). Nations where the head of state is not elected, as in a monarchy, as not elected but has a parliament with elected representatives that govern according to constitutional law protecting individual rights are called constitutional, democratic monarchies). Both are considered liberal democracies because they protect individual liberty from majority and minority forces, while retaining some democratic elements.

Also, a representative democracy may or may not be a constitutional republic. For example, "the United States relies on representative democracy, but [its] system of government is much more complex than that. [It is] not a simple representative democracy, but a constitutional republic in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law."[6]

We are a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC & REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY (.) How so many here skipped high school history is difficult to fathom.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Asking if we are democracy is like asking if hot dogs are ice cream.

 

[DiamondDave]

If it's not a democracy then what is it?

Constitutional Representative Republic..

Learn it... love it.. embrace it... and call for it to be run as it is/was intended

And Republican loons? Bundy was a Young Republican, Timothy McVeigh, an extreme right wingnut; luckily, they are gone for good. But so many unhinged extremists remain, it is a concern of decent Americans. al Qaeda is not real LIBERAL either.

And this pseudo-point/tangent has WHAT to do with the fact that we area a Constitutional Representative Republic??

Idiot

 

[bigrebnc1775]

then teach if you think you have some facts.

Article 4 Section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
U.S. Constitution - Article 4 Section 4 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
Class is dismissed
Truth don't matter you need to stay for remedial training.

 

[Intense]

Intense, "federalism" isn't in conflict with "democracy" anymore than "republic" is.

Naturegirl: beware of taking quotes out of context. Any government can violate the rights of individuals. That's why we have the Bill of Rights. We had the Bill of Rights before we were a democracy, and now that we are one, we still have it. Two separate issues that should not be confused.

Actually it is more specific. We constitute more than Democratic Principles, in a Federal Republic. Decentralization of Powers is a Critical component. Checks and Balances. Rule of Law, preferable to the influential sway of the flavor of the day, which results in misinformed Mob Rule. What good is a Bill of Rights that can be pulled out from under you in a day with 50.0001% majority? We are Hybrid and Unique in what we are. We incorporate Human Rights Principles, Unalienable Rights Principles, Democratic Principles, Republican Principles, and Federalist Principles. Much more complex than a simple Majority Rule.