Zone1 Is the middle class being destroyed in the US?

[alang1216]

Aren't benefits part of the compensation package? So if the government mandated certain benefits, what's to keep private sector companies from offsetting those costs with lower wages?

Benefits should not be part of the compensation package since they distort the labor market

 

[ding]

Right. It couldn't be that government workers are locked into their jobs and are underpaid while contractors can move freely from one firm to another, which I did averaging only 2 years at any one job. I think it is called a free market.

You seem to want it both ways. You seem to want a free market that is regulated by the government.

 

[ding]

Benefits should not be part of the compensation package since they distort the labor market

Benefits most certainly are part of the compensation package.

Yes, benefits are a crucial part of a total compensation package, representing the non-salary value an employer provides. These often include health insurance, retirement plans (like 401(k)s), paid time off, and stock options, which together with base salary determine the total value of employment.
Key details regarding benefits as part of compensation:

• Total Compensation Value: Benefits can make up a significant portion of what you earn, sometimes offsetting a lower base salary.
• Direct vs. Indirect: While salary is "direct compensation," benefits are often considered "indirect compensation" or "fringe benefits".
• Examples: Common benefits include health, dental, and vision insurance, life and disability insurance, retirement contributions, and tuition reimbursement.
• Non-Monetary Perks: Additional benefits can include flexible working hours, remote work options, and professional development opportunities.

When evaluating a job offer, it is important to calculate the monetary value of these benefits to understand the complete compensation.

 

[ding]

They will lose key employees.

Sort of like when the ACA was going to tax so-called "Cadillac" health care plans with low deductibles and EVERY major corporation dropped those plans and switched to high deductible plans? SMH.

 

[Bitterhook]

I see a number of threads here saying the middle class being destroyed or the middle class being worse today than in the past.

But was it not easer to get a job before than today? Also jobs paid better before than today and jobs were more secure than today.

A number of people in other threads here say the middle class is being destroyed now.

Setting the middle as a desired goal is the pursuit of the lowest common denominator, and the attempt to accommodate what is comfortable while abandoning the pursuit of excellence as a better course of action leading to continued improvement, and will eventually lead to the decay of the middle as well as anything that can sustain it.

To "govern" is to "limit".

 

[Hafar1014]

Sort of like when the ACA was going to tax so-called "Cadillac" health care plans with low deductibles and EVERY major corporation dropped those plans and switched to high deductible plans? SMH.

Youre making a broad generalization. High deductible plans in business often had the business paying the deductible. I used to create those plans. You raise the deductible to 1000 with zero deductible for the ER. Then when there is claim the business pays the 1000 which is a write off. The high deductible lowers the premium so its costs less and workers have 100% coverage

 

[ding]

Youre making a broad generalization. High deductible plans in business often had the business paying the deductible. I used to create those plans. You raise the deductible to 1000 with zero deductible for the ER. Then when there is claim the business pays the 1000 which is a write off. The high deductible lowers the premium so its costs less and workers have 100% coverage

No. I am stating reality. The ACA helped the insurance industry which is a drain on healthcare. If you were involved in that conspiracy you should be hung by your toes and filled with ex-lax.

 

[Hafar1014]

No. I am stating reality. The ACA helped the insurance industry which is a drain on healthcare. If you were involved in that conspiracy you should be hung by your toes and filled with ex-lax.

The ACA was poorly created plan in fact a payoff to insurance companies by Obama. I owned an insurance agency back in the 1980s and we could design a plan for specific businesses need. The ACA was one size fits no one. BLue cross and Blue shield had great plans for low income families. The ACA stopped them

 

[ding]

The ACA was poorly created plan in fact a payoff to insurance companies by Obama. I owned an insurance agency back in the 1980s and we could design a plan for specific businesses need. The ACA was one size fits no one. BLue cross and Blue shield had great plans for low income families. The ACA stopped them

Health insurance is a large scale grift. It adds nothing to health care.

 

[Hafar1014]

Health insurance is a large scale grift. It adds nothing to health care.

You have no idea. Both Canada and the NHS in the UK are failures

 

[ding]

You have no idea. Both Canada and the NHS in the UK are failures

Maybe don't pre-pay for health care?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I see a number of threads here saying the middle class being destroyed or the middle class being worse today than in the past.

But was it not easer to get a job before than today? Also jobs paid better before than today and jobs were more secure than today.

A number of people in other threads here say the middle class is being destroyed now.

Of course, but it is not through wages etc. as much as the disappearance of private industry. Corporations taking over everything.
Also much more than wages etc. - is the investor class. A system than rewards the cheapest labor possible, with zero regard to where the labor is performed, absolutely could care less about conditions of the labor force or anything else other than that is where they fundamentally make their profits.

 

[Lisa558]

Gov't workers do have it good, they have job protections and health ins., and retirement benefits that used to be widely available to union workers.

We can’t afford to overpay them. We need to get the pay in line with the private sector.

 

[Bitterhook]

Of course, but it is not through wages etc. as much as the disappearance of private industry. Corporations taking over everything.
Also much more than wages etc. - is the investor class. A system than rewards the cheapest labor possible, with zero regard to where the labor is performed, absolutely could care less about conditions of the labor force or anything else other than that is where they fundamentally make their profits.

The middle is always the middle no matter where it falls on the scale.
It is pulled higher or lower on the scale as it is supported.

If it becomes skewed and you desire to "close the gap", supporting only the "fat side" will only drag it to the fat side.

 

[Lisa558]

Of course, but it is not through wages etc. as much as the disappearance of private industry. Corporations taking over everything.
Also much more than wages etc. - is the investor class. A system than rewards the cheapest labor possible, with zero regard to where the labor is performed, absolutely could care less about conditions of the labor force or anything else other than that is where they fundamentally make their profits.

It’s a system that rewards the most VALUABLE labor. As it should be.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It’s a system that rewards the most VALUABLE labor. As it should be.

No. It is a system that rewards the cheapest made product available. Not just the labor cost, but the build quality - raw materials... everything. It is all pushing the envelope as far as possible to how bad a product can be that consumers will accept

 

[Bitterhook]

No. It is a system that rewards the cheapest made product available. Not just the labor cost, but the build quality - raw materials... everything. It is all pushing the envelope as far as possible to how bad a product can be that consumers will accept

And likewise, those on the higher end of the scale, can afford higher quality products, produced to higher standards, achievable with higher quality labor.

What are you really seeking?

 

[jc456]

I see a number of threads here saying the middle class being destroyed or the middle class being worse today than in the past.

But was it not easer to get a job before than today? Also jobs paid better before than today and jobs were more secure than today.

A number of people in other threads here say the middle class is being destroyed now.

Well here in Chitown, the mayor of Chitown just fired the least paid workers in the city for his budget. The Janitors. And democrats think us to be morons and think they're for middle class workers. Hilarious.

CPS cuts 500 custodians, ends private cleaning contracts amid budget deficit

Some 1,250 custodians, all employed by private companies, received layoff notices Friday. CPS says it plans to rehire 750 as district staff.

chicago.suntimes.com

 

[Lisa558]

No. It is a system that rewards the cheapest made product available. Not just the labor cost, but the build quality - raw materials... everything. It is all pushing the envelope as far as possible to how bad a product can be that consumers will accept

Not necessarily. I don’t buy the cheapest cars. Because I got an education and offered value to my employer, I was nicely paid and coudl afford a nice car.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

And likewise, those on the higher end of the scale, can afford higher quality products, produced to higher standards, achievable with higher quality labor.

What are you really seeking?

Ever hear of engineered to fail?