Zone1 Is the decline of societies morals....

[Donald H]

Based on what? Your feelings? What "feels right" to one person may not feel right to another. If a true morality exists, it is not subjective. So again, you are "moral" based on what?

America is more religious than Canada. And Americans commit more murders by gun than any other country. Can we say that Christianity and gun murder are bedfellows?

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. It is the lack of both.

I've tried to be polite, but this is going nowhere with you and so I'm terminating it now.

 

[Donald H]

To measure oneself against morals, what criteria do Christians and atheists use? We all know Christians have the 10 commandments in the Bible, so what do atheists use?

Blues Man has it! I'll just add that Canadian society sets forth more morality than does yours. Yet we are less religious??

 

[buttercup]

I don't criticize his morals. And I don't agree with them either. The guy was guilty of some truly heinous acts that cannot be denied but morals have nothing to do with it.

None of that makes any sense. How can his acts be "truly heinous" if there's no such thing as a true right vs wrong?

I know that ALL human behavior exists on a continuum so in the broadest sense ALL human behavior is normal to some degree.

All human behavior is normal? More illogic. Maybe you're going by your own definitions of words like 'normal' or 'moral'?

Now as societies have evolved so have societal morals because there are obviously behaviors that are beneficial to society as a whole that we want to encourage and behaviors that are detrimental to society as a whole that we want to discourage. This is the origin of morals.

You haven't thought this through. Who says what is beneficial and what is not beneficial? If there's no objective standard, then everything is meaningless, and even the word "beneficial" is empty.... because who decides what is truly beneficial? The majority? What if 75% of the population felt that rape should be legal.... would that make it truly right?

 

[Captain Caveman]

The morals set forth by society. FYI many of the prohibitions in the 10 commandments existed before the bible was written

Do you have a link to see where these morals were documented pre Moses time

 

[Captain Caveman]

Blues Man has it! I'll just add that Canadian society sets forth more morality than does yours. Yet we are less religious??

He has an opinion with no substance. The claim he made is, we followed some morals from some past from sometime ago before bla bla. Not very concrete is it.

 

[Blues Man]

None of that makes any sense. How can his acts be "truly heinous" if there's no such thing as a true right vs wrong?



All human behavior is normal? More illogic. Maybe you're going by your own definitions of words like 'normal' or 'moral'?




You haven't thought this through. Who says what is beneficial and what is not beneficial? If there's no objective standard, then everything is meaningless, and even the word "beneficial" is empty.... because who decides what is truly beneficial? The majority? What if 75% of the population felt that rape should be legal.... would that make it truly right?

They are only "right" or "wrong" if society has decided they are "right" or "wrong"

There is no absolute right or wrong as different societies can come to different conclusions.

And you are ignoring the fact that you have been conditioned by the society you live in to think certain behaviors are right or wrong. The power of a society to shape the behavior of a populace is truly staggering

 

[buttercup]

The morals set forth by society.

Oh, gosh. Have you looked around at the world today? Have you turned on the news? If you think society is what true morality is based on, no wonder this world is in such a mess. Too many people think that way.

So is telling a 2 year old there's no such thing as a boy or a girl, we are whatever we want to be, then giving that child puberty blockers and allowing him to mutilate his body totally OK, because society says so?

What if society decided that pedophila is normal and acceptable. Would you still stand by your statement that your morals are set by society?

 

[Blues Man]

Do you have a link to see where these morals were documented pre Moses time

IF Moses actually existed he has been said to have lived from 1800 BC to 1400 BC (if you believe a human could live to 400 years old)

Moses – 1800BC-1400BC | Bibleview

The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest known law code surviving today. It is from Mesopotamia and is written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100–2050 BCE.

Among the surviving laws are these:[5]

1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.

 

[Lastamender]

The morals set forth by society. FYI many of the prohibitions in the 10 commandments existed before the bible was written

And when the society is immoral?

 

[Dekster]

Such things like violence, mass shootings, and mental issues, such as transgender etc.. are increasing whilst religion decreases.

And with the rise of mental illness, more people are talking to god than ever before. That doesn't make them religious or any less loony.

 

[Blues Man]

And when the society is immoral?

only an outsider with different morals can make that value judgement.

Morals change therefore they are not absolute.

 

[WinterBorn]

If someone professes Christianity, they are held to a standard, and should be.
Atheists ?

They are held to their own standards. And not out of fear or "judgement" from an invisible man. I know what is right and what is wrong.

 

[WinterBorn]

Based on what? Your feelings? What "feels right" to one person may not feel right to another. If a true morality exists, it is not subjective. So again, you are "moral" based on what?

There are numerous standards for morals. Not harming other humans is the basic one. Those standards were first written as laws before Moses received the 10 Commandments.

 

[WinterBorn]

That didn't answer the question. You claimed atheists were moral because they feel it's the "right way to be." Who says what is "right"? What does that word even mean to you? What are you basing it on?

Come on, you should be able to defend your own worldview.

My idea of what is right or wrong largely depends on the effect it has on others. If it does not effect others, then the decision is mine alone to make. If it effects others, then I must to that into consideration.

It is odd to me that the question of morals seems to always revolve around sex or sexuality. Morality should be focused on greed, stealing, lying, hate mongering, and violence against others.

 

[WinterBorn]

Do you have a link to see where these morals were documented pre Moses time

The Code of Hammurabi pre-dates the 10 Commandments. Murder, theft, cannibalism, violence against others etc were all addressed. It was a lengthy and unwieldy set of laws. But it shows the ideas are almost universal.

 

[buttercup]

My idea of what is right or wrong largely depends on the effect it has on others. If it does not effect others, then the decision is mine alone to make. If it effects others, then I must to that into consideration.

It is odd to me that the question of morals seems to always revolve around sex or sexuality. Morality should be focused on greed, stealing, lying, hate mongering, and violence against others.

That's good... (it sounds like the Golden Rule, which I wish more people would live by, this world would be a much better place)... but we were talking about morality itself, and the basis for it. Like I said to Blues Man, if it's subjective, then it is meaningless, and the morality of Jeffrey Dahmer is just as right as the morality of someone like Ghandi or Mother Theresa. One cannnot be better than any other, if there is no objective standard.

One of the problems with atheism is in that worldview there is no basis for objective morality. That's why most atheists claim it's subjective... and iyam, that is illogical and problematic for numerous reasons.

 

[buttercup]

There are numerous standards for morals. Not harming other humans is the basic one. Those standards were first written as laws before Moses received the 10 Commandments.

I didn't say there weren't numerous standards. I was talking about an objective standard. I believe there is one. The atheists here don't, apparently. But I don't think they've thought it through.

 

[Captain Caveman]

The Code of Hammurabi pre-dates the 10 Commandments. Murder, theft, cannibalism, violence against others etc were all addressed. It was a lengthy and unwieldy set of laws. But it shows the ideas are almost universal.

Yes, laws, but not morals.

 

[AMart]

Here is a good video on stats on what happens to kids, young adults who grow up in Fatherless homes. This stuff is staggering.

 

[talksalot]

They are held to their own standards. And not out of fear or "judgement" from an invisible man. I know what is right and what is wrong.

Christianity is based on redemption and forgiveness and we are guided by Biblical teaching.

In your own eyes, you do no wrong.