Zone1 One Truth: Should Society Maintain a Moral Compass?

[Zincwarrior]

Same God. You didn't know?

Different rulebook.

 

[Mashmont]

One reason atheists have more fun.

They don't. That's why they get drunk, high, and commit suicide.

 

[Meriweather]

Fornication by consenting adults is not against the law here in Virginia.

Is it a virtue?

 

[JohnDB]

 

[alang1216]

They don't. That's why they get drunk, high, and commit suicide.

I enjoy 2 out of 3 and neither makes me feel guilty or bad.

Karl Marx described religion as the "opiate of the people" (or masses) in 1843 to suggest it acts as a numbing agent, relieving the immediate pain of oppression while discouraging the proletariat from rebelling against capitalist exploitation. It was seen as a way to make suffering bearable.

Key aspects of this concept include:

• A "Sigh of the Oppressed": Marx viewed religion as both an expression of real suffering and a protest against it.
• Psychological Comfort: It provides a "heart in a heartless world," offering emotional comfort to the disadvantaged.
• Control Mechanism: Religion promises happiness in the afterlife, which, according to []Marxist theory, causes the poor to accept their fate rather than fighting for change in this life.
• Illusionary Happiness: It acts as an illusory happiness that distracts from the need to change the material conditions (the society) that create the suffering in the first place.

While often quoted as a purely negative critique, it also reflected his understanding of why religion was so appealing to the working class.

 

[alang1216]

Is it a virtue?

Absolutely. There are too many lonely people who can't connect with another person.

 

[ding]

If I put a gun to your head and said give me your wallet, you might select a different answer.

As is my perogative because I have free will, right? So what have you proven other than I have free will?

Go for it, if you're not married or afraid of STDs.

You kind of missed my point. There are a long list of consequences, not all of them bad, that goes into the process of making decisions and choices. And we are free to give them weight or discard them as we see fit. That's free will. So how exactly is my free will limited? Which is what you claimed.

 

[ding]

Different rulebook.

Is it really though? It seems to me Jesus was telling them that they misunderstood which they rejected.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Is it really though? It seems to me Jesus was telling them that they misunderstood which they rejected.

Torah was big on stoning. Jesus not so much.

 

[ding]

Absolutely. There are too many lonely people who can't connect with another person.

I would say it can be. I would not say it absolutely is. Too many slippery slopes there. Or did you already forget saying, "Go for it, if you're not married or afraid of STDs?"

But what if I am maried? Would there be anything wrong with that? Don't married people get lonely too? Would they not benefit from connecting with another person?

 

[ding]

Torah was big on stoning. Jesus not so much.

That seemed to be a misconception he tried to correct, rather than arguing God changed his mind.

 

[ding]

Karl Marx described religion as the "opiate of the people" (or masses) in 1843 to suggest it acts as a numbing agent, relieving the immediate pain of oppression while discouraging the proletariat from rebelling against capitalist exploitation. It was seen as a way to make suffering bearable.

That is correct. But what Karl didn't understand is that there will always be suffering. It's part of the human condition. Ending religion won't change that. It will only make suffering less bearable.

Religion promises happiness in the afterlife, which, according to []Marxist theory, causes the poor to accept their fate rather than fighting for change in this life.

That's the same old tired argument of atheists and it is 100% incorrect. Religion teaches how to live life and how not to live life. Religion is for the living. Religion is not for the dead.

Religion does not cause the poor to accept their fate. It inspires them to become the best versions of themselves.

It acts as an illusory happiness that distracts from the need to change the material conditions (the society) that create the suffering in the first place.

Incorrect. Religion teaches us to rely on God who will give us peace through the storm. You have no advovcate to lean on. I do. My relationship with God has led me to untold riches in life. What has your atheism done for you?

 

[ding]

Different rulebook.

Jesus argued that the Jewish leaders of his time misunderstood God and the scriptures, rather than that God changed his mind. Jesus taught that he was fulfilling the original purpose of the Law and Prophets, clarifying, "I did not come to abolish... but to accomplish their purpose" (Matthew 5:17).

• Misunderstanding, Not Change: Jesus asserted that the religious leaders did not truly know God (John 8:55) and misinterpreted the law. He argued that his teachings were the true revelation of God's character.
• Progressive Revelation: Jesus often brought deeper meaning to old laws, correcting traditions (e.g., divorce, Sabbath rules) that had distorted the original intent, which is interpreted as fulfilling, not changing, the Divine plan.
• The "New" Covenant: While Jesus established a new covenant, this was described as the fulfillment of a long-promised, consistent plan, not a fickle change of mind by God.
• Perception of Change: When scripture describes God "changing his mind" (e.g., Exodus 32:14), it is often understood by theologians as an anthropomorphic way to describe God responding to human actions within his unchangeable purpose.

Jesus presented himself as the completion of the story of God, not as a contradiction of God’s previous nature.

 

[alang1216]

That's the same old tired argument of atheists and it is 100% incorrect. Religion teaches how to live life and how not to live life. Religion is for the living. Religion is not for the dead.

It was the promise of immortality that enabled Christianity to develop and grow. People follow church teachings to be right with God in the next life.

Religion does not cause the poor to accept their fate. It inspires them to become the best versions of themselves.

Render unto Caesar...

What has your atheism done for you?

Given me more time to enjoy this life.

 

[Mashmont]

I enjoy 2 out of 3 and neither makes me feel guilty or bad.

Karl Marx described religion as the "opiate of the people" (or masses) in 1843 to suggest it acts as a numbing agent, relieving the immediate pain of oppression while discouraging the proletariat from rebelling against capitalist exploitation. It was seen as a way to make suffering bearable.

Key aspects of this concept include:

• A "Sigh of the Oppressed": Marx viewed religion as both an expression of real suffering and a protest against it.
• Psychological Comfort: It provides a "heart in a heartless world," offering emotional comfort to the disadvantaged.
• Control Mechanism: Religion promises happiness in the afterlife, which, according to []Marxist theory, causes the poor to accept their fate rather than fighting for change in this life.
• Illusionary Happiness: It acts as an illusory happiness that distracts from the need to change the material conditions (the society) that create the suffering in the first place.

While often quoted as a purely negative critique, it also reflected his understanding of why religion was so appealing to the working class.

Marx was one of the nastiest fithiest personalities of his days. His existence was slovenly, and his core prediction about capitalism was wrong. Why would anyone listen to him? It's like listening to Bernie Sanders.

 

[alang1216]

I would say it can be. I would not say it absolutely is. Too many slippery slopes there. Or did you already forget saying, "Go for it, if you're not married or afraid of STDs?"

Both can be cured.

But what if I am maried? Would there be anything wrong with that? Don't married people get lonely too? Would they not benefit from connecting with another person?

Can't speak for you but for, should I survive, I'd be quickly divorced.

 

[alang1216]

Marx was one of the nastiest fithiest personalities of his days. His existence was slovenly, and his core prediction about capitalism was wrong. Why would anyone listen to him? It's like listening to Bernie Sanders.

You may not like his politics or his grooming but he was, and still is, very influential. Same for Bernie.

 

[Mashmont]

You may not like his politics or his grooming but he was, and still is, very influential. Same for Bernie.

Influential among dimbulbs.

 

[ding]

Both can be cured.

Sure, so what? Do whatever feels right, right?

Can't speak for you but for, should I survive, I'd be quickly divorced.

Yeah those are consequences. So what? Is there inherently something wrong with having sex with a different woman than the one you are married to? Do whatever feels right, right?

 

[ding]

It was the promise of immortality that enabled Christianity to develop and grow. People follow church teachings to be right with God in the next life.

Not exactly. It was having a relationship with God in the present that makes suffering bearable. Karl was cynical like you, there's no way he would have acknowledged the power a relationship with God brings. People don't suspend their suffering for a promoise of future benefit. They end their suffering in the present by having a relationship with God in the present. You will never understand this and you will never experience it because your heart has been hardened to God.

Render unto Caesar...

Up to a certain point, yes. But there's free will again for you. Full of choices and consequences.

Given me more time to enjoy this life.

That didn't sound like a ringing endorsement of atheism. Is that it? Nothing else?