Is "soul sleep" biblical?

[justinacolmena]

It's what I've adhered to for a long time. I think immediate transport to heaven is nothing more than a fantasy giving comfort to the dying in their last moments and to the loved ones of the deceased once that act has occured.

People are doing opioids for a "soul sleep" and then crack cocaine to wake up for the "rapture."

 

[hadit]

I don't think the idea of "soul sleep" is very practical at all.

With the number of people dying each day being so high, its probably hectic in Hell for Satan to process and orientate new residents as it is. To wait until the day of Judgment would be a real mess.

You're making the mistake of ascribing human limitations on the situation. Why does there have to be any processing and orientation at all?

 

[hadit]

On this subject, my inclination is to say it ultimately doesn't matter because I trust and believe that I am in God's hands now and will continue to be in His hands through and after death. The details of the experience, while of interest, do not matter so much as the certainty that He will take care of every detail. Since I am commenting, however, I will say this.

We are limited in our perspective because we have a beginning while God does not. Our perspective is necessarily forced to view things linearly. To us, everything has a beginning, and more importantly, an end. God's perspective, OTOH, is not limited to beginning, middle, and end. He sees the whole thing as one and time as we know it means nothing to Him. And why should it? He created it. Since time means nothing to God, I have no problem with Him revealing things that we attempt to put into a timeline while He doesn't see them that way. Therefore, in our experience, all these things might seem to happen sequentially while to the individual, they happen simultaneously. I believe that God reveals things to us that we attempt to fit into a timeline while He may not mean for us to do so.

For those who do not see things through a spiritual lens, let's look into astrophysics. Science tells us that time started with the universe. A being that exists outside of the universe, therefore, doesn't experience time as we know it. In addition, science tells us that there are dimensions that we do not see. A being that exists outside our dimensions with the ability to travel into and out of our dimensions also would be able to appear and disappear at will.

 

[hadit]

People are doing opioids for a "soul sleep" and then crack cocaine to wake up for the "rapture."

If all you're going to do is mock, go elsewhere.

 

[buttercup]

In 1 Samuel 28, Saul commissioned the witch of Endor to wake the spirit of Samuel. Is this the sort of thing that could be viewed as soul sleep?

Yes, that's probably one of the scriptures used by those who believe in soul sleep. As someone else mentioned, the Bible especially in the Old Testament sometimes refers to death as sleep... and all those scriptures are probably the main justification for their position. But it's a metaphor. If you've ever seen a dead person, they DO look like they're sleeping… But obviously there's no one there, it's just their physical shell. Also, death is similar to sleep in the sense that both are temporary (from a Christian perspective, when we die our physical body dies but our soul / spirit does not die, and eventually our body will be resurrected and back with our soul /spirit, but in a different form, in a permanent imperishable form.) So like sleep, physical death or being apart from our body is not permanent. I hope that made sense.

 

[buttercup]

Abraham's Bosom.
It is also called Paradise. Remember what Christ told the thief on the cross beside Him?
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Some confuse that word with Heaven, but He was referring to the place where God's saints were waiting. That is where they both went. To Abraham's Bosom.
Here is why the place was necessary.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

No one. Not God's Prophets, Not His friend Abraham. Not the apple of His eye, King David. Sin cannot enter Heaven, and no one had died to pay for their sins yet. So they rested with Abraham, and waited for Jesus. Jesus spent 3 days there. When He left, to return to Jerusalem, He took all of them with Him. About 10,000 whose graves opened during the earthquake that took place while Christ was on the cross.
…At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.
They stayed for 40 days in their new state of the art glorified bodies. Then ascended with Christ when He left us for Heaven.
Abraham's Bosom is no longer necessary. Our sins have been paid for. We go straight up. Absent from the body means present with the Lord.

Across a deep chasm from Abraham's Bosom was Hell. That is where they all were when the conversation between Abraham and the rich man took place. (The Lazarus referred to there is not the same one Christ raised from the dead.)
Several things are described. Hell was filled with remorse. They believed what the prophets told them now that they were living it. There is severe thirst. And something I noted was that, even in spirit form, they were recognizable. Lazarus recognized Abraham. He still looked like Abraham!

And for a bizarre twist. Guess where Abraham's Bosom was and Hell still is located:
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Thanks so much for that post! You brought up a lot of interesting things. And like I mentioned yesterday, this is all becoming more clear now. Now I can talk to my friend (the one I mentioned who believes in soul sleep) and bring up that place where believers went before Jesus' death on the cross, and now that makes sense with what Jesus said to the thief on the cross.

The last thing you brought up is definitely a bizarre twist, haha! I want to look into that more, although there's probably very little about that in the bible. Thanks again for the reply.

 

[buttercup]

As an atheist, I don't know why this concept would offend anyone or be open to argument or why it matters. If you believe when you die, that your soul takes a nap before it goes to heaven, why would this be considered a much different belief than those who believe that your soul goes straight to heaven with no nap time?

I'm not offended by it, I don't know how you got that idea. I just disagree with it, but as I said in the original post, I'm open to being shown that I'm wrong. But the more I look into this, the more my original view is confirmed, and that it is indeed a false doctrine.

Why does it matter? That's a good question. I think it's very important to understand the Bible correctly, and I think false doctrines should be corrected, because what usually happens is they rely on misinterpreting a handful of scriptures… But when you have several scriptures that are misunderstood, that can lead to other related scriptures being misunderstood as well. In other words, the misunderstanding can spread, and that leads to additional false doctrines.

The Bible says that "a little leaven leavens the whole lump." Jesus Himself also said to beware of leaven, in reference to the false teachings of the Sadducees and Pharisees. (Matthew 16:6) Leaven is a metaphor for sin but it's also a metaphor for a lie or false teaching. A little leaven destroying the whole lump is basically what I just said about how one lie or false teaching can spread to others as well.

And then when you have too many false teachings, that can lead to a cult, which of course ends up misleading thousands or millions of people.

 

[buttercup]

It seems like we are asleep, until judgement day, from this passage in Revelation???

Revelation 6:9-11 9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign LORD, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

I don't think so, there are many scriptures that refute the idea that we are asleep until judgment day. As for that Revelation scripture... let me look at it more closely and get back to it later. For a long time now I've wanted to do a specific study on the book of Revelation, because to me it's fascinating, and I believe we're getting closer to the last days, but I haven't yet devoted enough time to really studying it. Thanks Care4all!

 

[buttercup]

On this subject, my inclination is to say it ultimately doesn't matter because I trust and believe that I am in God's hands now and will continue to be in His hands through and after death. The details of the experience, while of interest, do not matter so much as the certainty that He will take care of every detail. Since I am commenting, however, I will say this.

We are limited in our perspective because we have a beginning while God does not. Our perspective is necessarily forced to view things linearly. To us, everything has a beginning, and more importantly, an end. God's perspective, OTOH, is not limited to beginning, middle, and end. He sees the whole thing as one and time as we know it means nothing to Him. And why should it? He created it. Since time means nothing to God, I have no problem with Him revealing things that we attempt to put into a timeline while He doesn't see them that way. Therefore, in our experience, all these things might seem to happen sequentially while to the individual, they happen simultaneously. I believe that God reveals things to us that we attempt to fit into a timeline while He may not mean for us to do so.

For those who do not see things through a spiritual lens, let's look into astrophysics. Science tells us that time started with the universe. A being that exists outside of the universe, therefore, doesn't experience time as we know it. In addition, science tells us that there are dimensions that we do not see. A being that exists outside our dimensions with the ability to travel into and out of our dimensions also would be able to appear and disappear at will.

I agree... our perspective of time is so limited and different than God's. It's hard to even wrap my mind around seeing time in a non-linear way. And I also agree with your first point. Thanks for your thoughts, hadit!

 

[Natural Citizen]

I agree... our perspective of time is so limited and different than God's. It's hard to even wrap my mind around seeing time in a non-linear way. And I also agree with your first point. Thanks for your thoughts, hadit!

I've always liked reading through discussions between you and hadit on this sort of topical stuff.

 

[buttercup]

I've always liked reading through discussions between you and hadit on this sort of topical stuff.

Yeah, there were some really good discussions at that other place! I always appreciated hadit's posts on this stuff too.

 

[hadit]

Yeah, there were some really good discussions at that other place! I always appreciated hadit's posts on this stuff too.

Thanks for starting this thread. It's certainly a LOT more rewarding than the political drivel I so often find myself in.

 

[buttercup]

Thanks for starting this thread. It's certainly a LOT more rewarding than the political drivel I so often find myself in.

I hear ya! I don't go into the political threads very often, especially the typical red vs blue, Trump vs Biden back-and-forth mudslinging that goes on here day in and day out. I think it's a complete waste of time.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I've never looked into this, but knee-jerk it seems like it wouldn't be much relevant. Eternity is eternity, so whether you were immediately judged or waited a few hundred or thousand years wouldn't make much difference. Can God not handle a busy line?

 

[hadit]

I've never looked into this, but knee-jerk it seems like it wouldn't be much relevant. Eternity is eternity, so whether you were immediately judged or waited a few hundred or thousand years wouldn't make much difference. Can God not handle a busy line?

People want to know what happens to them when they die. They want to know where their loved ones who have passed on are at. Are they watching us? Are they at peace? That's why the discussions.

 

[The Irish Ram]

That was heavy thunder, not a tectonic movement earthquake. Lightning struck the veil of the temple, because Jesus saw beforehand, Satan as lightning fell from heaven.
Jesus' coat with no seam on it was full of rainwater when the soldier pierced it with a sword.

Many of the graves were opened after His resurrection, if people were really dead in those days, or if they were doped with sedative as Jesus was, to keep them quiet, and some were granted witness protection.

Thunder does not cause rocks to break open. Nor does it cause stones to roll away from graves. The Bible says the earth quaked.
Quake: to shake or tremble.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent <( the boulders they rolled in front of the tombs. Not all of them. About 10,000 of them.)

There is no way that lightening could have made it's way inside the Temple and wander around the place til it found the veil, which was made of fine linen and would have burned to a crisp had it been subject to that kind of heat. It wasn't. It was rent in twain...

That veil was sheets of linen on top of another until it was a foot thick. Because God was situated the Holy of Holies, it prevented man's access to God, for the man's sake. The priest was completely cleansed before he entered, and in case they missed a sin or two, they tied a rope around the priest before he entered so they could pull him out if he dropped dead. A temporary use of animal blood was sprinkled on the alter to cover any sin that might still be present. The priest did that once a year and God gave His people immunity for the year. Because the animal blood temporary covered their sins well enough to allow God to grant it.

And even tho the earth shook like hell, not one thing was moved in the Temple. Yet that linen barrier was "rent". <torn, in two. < Because Christ sprinkled His OWN blood on that alter. It was a permanent sacrifice for man once and for all. The veil that separated us from God was ripped in two by Christ. He removed the barrier that kept us separated from God.
The Law requires a Judge. Christ fulfilled the Law which enabled God to once again become a loving, all forgiving Father.

"And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom..." Matthew 27:50-51

 

[seaofnails]

.

Firstly, I want to make it clear that I truly respect and deeply love and care about all Christians regardless of their faith.

BUT

Trinitarian theology itself - presents an eternal orbit of contradiction

And Trinitarian theology lives in a realm of never-ending contradiction

If Yahashua promised the thief on the cross that today he would be WITH HIM in heaven

then, this means - that either the Trinity is a complete lie and Yahashua is not another SEPARATE DISTINCT person - not another separate Co - Eternal , Co - Equal person of God

And Yahashua was already in heaven while he was still on earth - because his Spirit is the same Holy Spirit

or this means that SOUL SLEEP IS a reality.

So which contradiction will need to focus upon to explain the Trinitarian faith system and its Translation. And which contradiction must be ignored for a season ?

The TRUTH is - the details involving the prophecies and future foretold events that were given to St. John - in Revelation Chapters 1 - 3

all of these events have already happened 2000 YEARS AGO.

Revelation Chapter 1 - 3 says that these things will shortly come to pass - these have already happened.

Then we get to Chapter 4 and we see

Rev 4:1* After this..... a voice said Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.*

Everything beginning at Revelation Chapter 4 is after the rapture

I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.*

So ... .. . . any souls mentioned anywhere in heaven after Chapter 4 have already been resurrected and are there - after the resurrection of the dead.

in Chapter 6 - THE EVIL AND CORRUPT FOLLOWERS OF SATAN ARE STILL LIVING UPON THE EARTH - and God has even not yet begun destroying their kingdom and cursing and plaguing them.

Two chapters after the RAPTURE and resurrection of the dead - the Tribulation is just about to begin. There are still servants of God on earth who have not been raptured who will endure the Tribulation. They will be persecuted and beheaded and forced to accept the OATH of the Beast

In Chapter 6 - the resurrection and rapture has already happened. The souls under the altar are crying out to God

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

They are crying out to God to avenge their blood - this is after the resurection.

Roman Catholic Trinitarianism Theology is truly one of the most deceptive and illiterate dysfunctional faith systems that exist on earth. it is an eternal worship of complete ignorance. Ignorance is their literal God.

The Bible does not portray souls in heaven before the resurrection - Everything beginning at Revelation Chapter 4 is after the rapture.

Just imagine if the K.J.V was not a duplicate Copy Cat of the Catholic Douay Rheims - Protestants could then read the scriptures looking through the lens and scope of the Holy Spirit, instead of eternally looking through the Eyes of Rome to understand the Bible

 

[seaofnails]

Luk 23: 43 and Jesus said unto him, Amen, saying you today with me I am in the paradise.

This is exactly what the manuscripts say in Greek - word for word exactly..

Imagine what Rome and England would want you to believe.

You can choose to believe your Bible Permit - Permit Bible. An authorized translation that the government will allow / permit you to possess and believe

or choose to believe the original manuscript

Amen, saying you today with me I am in the paradise.


The ancient Greek and Hebrew are simply tools that the Translators use to rewrite the narratives based on preconceived faith system. Simply changing the order of words in any passage can render the narrative to make it say anything you imagine.

If we go directly to the original manuscript - translate every single word IN ORDER exactly as it is in the original - we can see what the passages are truly saying and what they are not saying.

Luk 23:43 και And - ειπεν speaking - αυτω himself -

ο this - ιησους Yahashua - αμην Amen / Surely, -

λεγω saying - σοι you - σημερον today - μετ with -
εμου me

- εση I am - εν in - τω the παραδεισω paradise.

These were the words of a dying man in pain telling the thief that this day the thief was united with Yahashua and that he was also in paradise.

 

[Road Runner]

A thread someone posted today in this section brought to mind a belief called "soul sleep," which is held by Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses. In a nutshell, it's the view that when we die, our soul "sleeps" until the resurrection and final judgment.

The timing of the other thread was interesting because just last night this topic came up in an online small group I'm part of, and someone in our little group believes in soul sleep. I mentioned that what Jesus said to the thief on the cross - "today you will be with me in paradise" - shows that soul sleep is unbiblical, but she said that doesn't make sense because Jesus did not go directly to paradise that day. (That's a whole topic in and of itself, but apparently that is one of the arguments used by those who believe in soul sleep.)

My view is that soul sleep is a false idea, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise. Mainly I'd like to hear the arguments / scriptures for and against this in order to be more confident that the standard view is indeed correct.

I wanted to hear what the Christians here have to say about this, especially anyone who has studied this topic before. Thanks!

I was just about to start a topic like this and I was just literally talking to JohnDB about this as I've always been confused about this myself as I've heard both theories since I've gotten older but when I was younger I was told that we pass onto the next life after we die, but if we're dead anyways we're not going to know the difference of how long we've been dead to how long we're in Heaven with Christ,.. but I personally believe that it instantly follows afterwards.

It's what I've adhered to for a long time. I think immediate transport to heaven is nothing more than a fantasy giving comfort to the dying in their last moments and to the loved ones of the deceased once that act has occured.

This is a good theory as well.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It seems like we are asleep, until judgement day, from this passage in Revelation???

Revelation 6:9-11 9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign LORD, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

That is end time prophecy, yet to be fulfilled.
Those that belong to God will be removed before WW3 begins. God is going to intervene in this next one. And His children are not appointed to His wrath. So we go straight up in 11/100's of a second. And our bodies are glorified during the trip. And once again, the graves of those in spirit at that time, in Heaven, are opened and their bodies are retrieved. We will all need them again. Christ returns to end WW3 and we come with Him.
Rev. 19:14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
^That is us. And yay, there are animals in Heaven. Thank you, God.

But, there will be those who won't believe, until after the Rapture occurs. Then they accept Christ. And they are in trouble. They are open game. They are put in camps, along with the Jews, called re-education camps. Those that can't be re-educated will simply disappear. Once the U.N., which is becoming a Muslim organization, is in control, heads will roll.

It is again how we know we go straight up. Those souls would have been recently killed in John's vision. And there they are, in Heaven, crying out for justice, during the Tribulation, immediately following their deaths, just prior to Christ's return.