Zone1 Is Jesus God?

[BS Filter]

He claims to follow the Law perfectly now. Just ask him. He has to, because he simultaneously proclaims that the Law stands and is in power, AND he lives perfectly and sinlessly. That means he claims to follow the Law perfectly, just like Jesus did.

Perhaps he's mentally ill.

 

[hobelim]

Until he met the glorified Christ.

You really should reread the conversion story on the road to Damascus. Paul claimed to go blind and was fumbling around for a while and then "miraculously" his vision was restored which must have made it hard for the disciples to watch without bursting into laughter knowing that Paul was a lying fraud because they all understood that Jesus cured a blindness of perception not sight. He tried to infiltrate the movement to make sure the Jewish people would dismiss the teachings of Jesus out of hand, he is God, the law is obsolete, and curse the Gentile nations with Mithraism

Paul was a guilt ridden, self loathing, masochistic, homophobic, misogynist, the exact opposite of Jesus, who wrote many of his letters from A ROMAN PRISON, as if prisoners had that liberty.

You are the one who is really given to fantasy......Paul even advocated submitting to Roman "authorities" when Nero was Caesar. How in hell can you not see his anti christ teachings?

Can even you imagine Jesus in a million years ever saying "submit to the Roman authorities"?

No? So snap out of it already. Smarten up! To be aware is to be alive. Damn.

 

[hobelim]

Perhaps he's mentally ill.

You have no idea! I am completely out of my tree. I worship an imaginary trinity that diddled a virgin to father himself so he could become fully human and fully God, in the flesh, only to abolish his own eternal law and personal accountability by becoming a perfect human sacrifice to himself so that "believers' can sin with impunity for life, as long as they pray, sing songs, and celebrate his sacrifice, er, murder, every Sunday, or at least once in a while, weather permitting.

Thats some real psycho shit right there... I probably should be medicated, in a padded room..

Oh! Wait a minute! Thats not me! Thats you three schmucks! BS, Dingbat, and whats his name.

 

[surada]

You really should reread the conversion story on the road to Damascus. Paul claimed to go blind and was fumbling around for a while and then "miraculously" his vision was restored which must have made it hard for the disciples to watch without bursting into laughter knowing that Paul was a lying fraud because they all understood that Jesus cured a blindness of perception not sight. He tried to infiltrate the movement to make sure the Jewish people would dismiss the teachings of Jesus out of hand, he is God, the law is obsolete, and curse the Gentile nations with Mithraism

Paul was a guilt ridden, self loathing, masochistic, homophobic, misogynist, the exact opposite of Jesus, who wrote many of his letters from A ROMAN PRISON, as if prisoners had that liberty.

You are the one who is really given to fantasy......Paul even advocated submitting to Roman "authorities" when Nero was Caesar. How in hell can you not see his anti christ teachings?

Can even you imagine Jesus in a million years ever saying "submit to the Roman authorities"?

No? So snap out of it already. Smarten up! To be aware is to be alive. Damn.

Paul the Apostle: Did his homosexuality shape Christianity?

Struggle against his own homosexual desires in an intolerant society may have led the Apostle Paul to write about God’s all-inclusive love -- and also scriptures used by anti-LGBTQ bigots. Some scholars believe that Paul was a celibate homosexual man trying to reconcile faith and sexuality in a...

qspirit.net

 

[hobelim]

Paul the Apostle: Did his homosexuality shape Christianity?

Struggle against his own homosexual desires in an intolerant society may have led the Apostle Paul to write about God’s all-inclusive love -- and also scriptures used by anti-LGBTQ bigots. Some scholars believe that Paul was a celibate homosexual man trying to reconcile faith and sexuality in a...

qspirit.net

I heard such things. Perhaps that was the "thorn in his side". Even so his condemning homosexuality in no uncertain terms makes him even more despicable if he was indeed gay.

Think about it.

How many innocent people were persecuted and suffered unspeakable things in the past and still are being persecuted to this day because of his perverted and hateful self loathing words?

 

[BS Filter]

You have no idea! I am completely out of my tree. I worship an imaginary trinity that diddled a virgin to father himself so he could become fully human and fully God, in the flesh, only to abolish his own eternal law and personal accountability by becoming a perfect human sacrifice to himself so that "believers' can sin with impunity for life, as long as they pray, sing songs, and celebrate his sacrifice, er, murder, every Sunday, or at least once in a while, weather permitting.

Thats some real psycho shit right there... I probably should be medicated, in a padded room..

Oh! Wait a minute! Thats not me! Thats you three schmucks! BS, Dingbat, and whats his name.

Yep, definitely some kind of mental challenges going on. Good luck.

 

[ding]

I heard such things. Perhaps that was the "thorn in his side". Even so his condemning homosexuality in no uncertain terms makes him even more despicable if he was indeed gay.

Think about it.

How many innocent people were persecuted and suffered unspeakable things in the past and still are being persecuted to this day because of his perverted and hateful self loathing words?

You're gay, aren't you. That would explain your anger towards Christians and your made up fake theology.

 

[ding]

Perhaps he's mentally ill.

Or gay and bitter.

 

[kjw47]

Sounds exactly like brainwashing to me....

Its unity.

 

[kjw47]

It doesn't say "godlike qualities".

Then is satan the God at 2 Cor 4:4

 

[TruthNotBS]

a god means-has godlike qualities, it is not calling that one God--the same at 2 Cor 4:4 where satan is called god0--he has godlike qualities he is not being called God.

These Evangelicals completely ignore the fact that angels, prophets, judges, the kings of Israel, the devil, are identified as gods or elohim. They think that because YHWH our heavenly Father, is the Only True God, that makes all other gods, false. What they fail to realize is that when Yeshua supposedly said:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent.

He meant "true" as in origin or source. For example:

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Does that make the tabernacle that YHWH commanded Moses to "pitch" or build, false? No. The earthly tabernacle that Moses pitched was 100% legitimate and good, not a "false tabernacle". The word "true" within this context denotes "source", or "original". Our heavenly Father, YHWH, is the non-contingent, original deity, the source of all life, including the lives of the elohim, who He created and sustains with His power. No one is inherently immortal or divine, but YHWH-Father/Source, the True Elohim. His children are also elohim, and bear His Name:

Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev_14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Rev_22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

The Name/Nature/Character/Power/Authority...etc of YHWH, the God of Yeshua The Messiah, will be written upon the members of His royal family, who will reign with Him over the nations. The destiny of His disciples, the Bride of Messiah, is that they will become immortal elohim/gods, bearing The Name of YHWH.

 

[BS Filter]

These Evangelicals completely ignore the fact that angels, prophets, judges, the kings of Israel, the devil, are identified as gods or elohim. They think that because YHWH our heavenly Father, is the Only True God, that makes all other gods, false. What they fail to realize is that when Yeshua supposedly said:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent.

He meant "true" as in origin or source. For example:

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Does that make the tabernacle that YHWH commanded Moses to "pitch" or build, false? No. The earthly tabernacle that Moses pitched was 100% legitimate and good, not a "false tabernacle". The word "true" within this context denotes "source", or "original". Our heavenly Father, YHWH, is the non-contingent, original deity, the source of all life, including the lives of the elohim, who He created and sustains with His power. No one is inherently immortal or divine, but YHWH-Father/Source, the True Elohim. His children are also elohim, and bear His Name:

Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The Name/Nature/Character/Power/Authority...etc of YHWH, the God of Yeshua The Messiah, will be written upon the members of His royal family, who will reign with Him over the nations. The destiny of His disciples, the Bride of Messiah, is that they will become immortal elohim/gods, bearing The Name of YHWH.

Was your heavenly Father once a man?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Was your heavenly Father once a man?

According to Mormonism, our heavenly Father, who created this universe (All of the hundreds of billions of galaxies in this region of the cosmos), graduated from the mortal state of life into immortality eons ago (trillions, quadrillions of years ago. etc). Physical universes with galaxies like this:

​

...have planets that are seeded with life, and those planets develop living forms with bodies that eventually resemble the image of YHWH:

​

The human form/body is the divine form or the highest form. It allows the creature that is graced with it to dominate the physical realm and eventually become an immortal, luminous YHWH, able to create other universes.

The natural precedes the spiritual:

1 Corinthians 15:46-49 reads:

"46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

The image of the heavenly is a human form infused with divine immortal light and glory. It's the same body that Yeshua our Messiah had when he rose from the dead. The angelic, immortal gods, or elohim, have human, glorified, immortal bodies (This includes our heavenly Father).

YHWH the person, is our Father, whereas YHWH the infinite, eternal reality that encompasses all things, isn't a person, as we understand "personhood" as finite human beings. That aspect of YHWH or existence (YHWH means existence or beingness), is unknown to us and beyond our comprehension.

Deuteronomy 29:29 states, "The secret things belong to YHWH our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

Isaiah 55:8, says, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith YHWH."

Some mysteries or secrets exclusively belong to YHWH. He reveals his secrets or plans to whomever he wishes. Amos 3:7, says, "Surely the Sovereign YHWH does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets."

He reveals His plans to His servants, but that doesn't imply that the prophets and humanity in general know absolutely everything about YHWH.

According to Joseph Smith, our heavenly Father, YHWH, had to experience mortality with all of its pain and suffering as we are experiencing it now and He overcame (graduated) just as we must overcome to inherit our place in the immortal, divine Kingdom (The eternal state of being). That makes more sense to me personally than the Evangelical or mainstream Protestant conception of YHWH. I find the LDS conception of the "Godhead", superior to that of Evangelicalism.

I'm not a baptized member of the LDS Church, yet, but it's these LDS ideas that impress me and may result in me becoming a baptized member of their Church.

I'm not entirely convinced that YHWH is a person in the human, finite sense, but rather I lean towards the idea that YHWH, our heavenly Father, is a state of being that encompasses all things and is more than a person as we little-finite humans understand and experience "personhood". YHWH-Father, is the ever-existing, eternal state of beingness (existence itself, the "isness" of being), or the reality of being awake and aware in a state of love and unity with "others" (relational, interactive sentience/consciousness).

Joh 17:22-23 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

YHWH Father, is the divine principle of life and order, which eventually leads to a constructive, divine, immortal consciousness and intelligence, as opposed to the chaos that undermines it (Disorder = evil/anti-life/nihilism/sin/Satan). The adversary of life is "Satan". We must overcome the chaos/nihilism/Satan through our fruitful faith in the Messiah and this leads to the eternal Kingdom of YHWH (The immortal state of loving relationships and eternal dominion over chaos).

The divine, immortal state is one of eternal bliss, but this can't be experienced without first going through this painful process of natural, mortal life. The natural precedes the spiritual. We are now going through the existential "school of hard knocks". All immortals have to experience this state of life, to fully appreciate and enjoy their immortality. Without tasting mortality, with all of its challenges and suffering, one is unable to truly value an immortal existence in YHWH's Kingdom. The only Church that teaches this wisdom is the LDS. That's why I'm impressed with their theology.

 

[BS Filter]

According to Mormonism, our heavenly Father, who created this universe (All of the hundreds of billions of galaxies in this region of the cosmos), graduated from the mortal state of life into immortality eons ago (trillions, quadrillions of years ago. etc). Physical universes with galaxies like this:

View attachment 899114​

...have planets that are seeded with life, and those planets develop living forms with bodies that eventually resemble the image of YHWH:

View attachment 899110​

The human form/body is the divine form or the highest form. It allows the creature that is graced with it to dominate the physical realm and eventually become an immortal, luminous YHWH, able to create other universes.

The natural precedes the spiritual:

1 Corinthians 15:46-49 reads:

"46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

The image of the heavenly is a human form infused with divine immortal light and glory. It's the same body that Yeshua our Messiah had when he rose from the dead. The angelic, immortal gods, or elohim, have human, glorified, immortal bodies.

YHWH the person, is our Father, whereas YHWH the infinite, eternal reality that encompasses all things, isn't a person, as we understand "personhood" as finite human beings. That aspect of YHWH or existence (YHWH means existence or beingness), is unknown to us and beyond our comprehension.

Deuteronomy 29:29 states, "The secret things belong to YHWH our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

Isaiah 55:8, says, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith YHWH."

Some mysteries or secrets exclusively belong to YHWH. He reveals his secrets or plans to whomever he wishes. Amos 3:7, says, "Surely the Sovereign YHWH does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets."

He reveals His plans to His servants, but that doesn't imply that the prophets and humanity in general know absolutely everything about YHWH.

According to Joseph Smith, our heavenly Father, YHWH, had to experience mortality with all of its pain and suffering as we are experiencing it now and He overcame (graduated) just as we must overcome to inherit our place in the immortal, divine Kingdom (The eternal state of being). That makes more sense to me personally than the Evangelical or mainstream Protestant conception of YHWH. I find the LDS conception of the "Godhead", superior to that of Evangelicalism.

I'm not a baptized member of the LDS Church, yet, but it's these LDS ideas that impress me and may result in me becoming a baptized member of their Church.

I'm not entirely convinced that YHWH is a person in the human, finite sense, but rather I lean towards the idea that YHWH, our heavenly Father, is a state of being that encompasses all things and is more than a person as we little-finite humans understand and experience "personhood". YHWH-Father, is the ever-existing, eternal state of beingness (existence itself, the "isness" of being), or the reality of being awake and aware in a state of love and unity with "others" (relational, interactive sentience/consciousness).

Joh 17:22-23 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

YHWH Father, is the divine principle of life and order, which eventually leads to a constructive, divine, immortal consciousness and intelligence, as opposed to the chaos that undermines it (Disorder = evil/anti-life/nihilism/sin/Satan). The adversary of life is "Satan". We must overcome the chaos/nihilism/Satan through our fruitful faith in the Messiah and this leads to the eternal Kingdom of YHWH (The immortal state of loving relationships and eternal dominion over chaos).

The divine, immortal state is one of eternal bliss, but this can't be experienced without first going through this painful process of natural, mortal life. The natural precedes the spiritual. We are now going through the existential "school of hard knocks". All immortals have to experience this state of life, to fully appreciate and enjoy their immortality. Without tasting mortality, with all of its challenges and suffering, one is unable to truly value an immortal existence in YHWH's Kingdom. The only Church that teaches this wisdom is the LDS. That's why I'm impressed with their theology.

There's only one problem with this theology. It's not Biblical.

 

[TruthNotBS]

There's only one problem with this theology. It's not Biblical.

It is, the problem is in your unwillingness to recognize it. It's there, even more so than your Trinitarian theology is.

 

[BS Filter]

It is, the problem is in your unwillingness to recognize it. It's there, even more so than your Trinitarian theology is.

The Scripture you provided from Corinthians is talking about Adam the first man and Jesus the second man. It's a picture of us. First a body of flesh, then a spiritual body. There are no Scriptures saying God the Father was once a man.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The Scripture you provided from Corinthians is talking about Adam the first man and Jesus the second man. It's a picture of us. First a body of flesh, then a spiritual body. There are no Scriptures saying God the Father was once a man.

Exactly first a natural, mortal body, then a spiritual, glorified body, worn as a sign or evidence that we have graduated from the mortal state. You can pretend that verse doesn't support what I said, along with the other verses in that post and in the previous post, but that's fine. I expect you to reject everything I say, I'm not responding to your posts, or investing my precious time and energy to convince you of anything. It's for others, who are sincerely searching for the truth. There's much more Biblical support for what I said than there is for your Trinitarian, Evangelical theology and soteriology.

I made it clear that I don't agree 100% with the LDS, nor am I a baptized member of their church. Nonetheless, I do find their theology much more Biblical and coherent, rational, than what I see in Roman Catholicism and Protestant Christianity.

 

[BS Filter]

Exactly first a natural, mortal body, then a spiritual, glorified body, worn as a sign or evidence that we have graduated from the mortal state. You can pretend that verse doesn't support what I said, along with the other verses in that post and in the previous post, but that's fine. I expect you to reject everything I say, I'm not responding to your posts, or investing my precious time and energy to convince you of anything. It's for others, who are sincerely searching for the truth. There's much more Biblical support for what I said than there is for your Trinitarian, Evangelical theology and soteriology.

I made it clear that I don't agree 100% with the LDS, nor am I a baptized member of their church. Nonetheless, I do find their theology much more Biblical and coherent, rational, than what I see in Roman Catholicism and Protestant Christianity.

Jesus was God before he became a man. So is every God with his own planet and humans going to go through what the earth has? When you have your own planet you're gonna send your son to the planet as a sacrifice? Can't buy it. Good night.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Jesus was God before he became a man. So is every God with his own planet and humans going to go through what the earth has? When you have your own planet you're gonna send your son to the planet as a sacrifice? Can't buy it. Good night.

He wasn't the only true God or His own God, before He incarnated. He was a member of the divine council and the firstborn. He was immortal and divine, but not the highest authority. Yes, all of YHWH's children will eventually become like Him, bearing His Name and creating universes and planets, governing over them with a rod of iron. YHWH will always be our God and Father.

 

[BS Filter]

He wasn't the only true God or His own God, before He incarnated. He was a member of the divine council and the firstborn. He was immortal and divine, but not the highest authority. Yes, all of YHWH's children will eventually become like Him, bearing His Name and creating universes and planets, governing over them with a rod of iron. YHWH will always be our God and Father.

Is your firstborn going to have to become a man and die on a cross for the sins of your children?