Zone1 Is Jesus God?

[BS Filter]

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. - Rev. 1:8, RSV.

We know this is the Father alone because only he is called `the Lord God' and `Almighty' in holy scripture. Notice that the Father (not the Son) in this verse is described as one who is to come. And, again, these 2 previous verses show the same thing:

Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness...." - Rev. 1:4, 5, RSV.

Again there can be no doubt that this is the Father alone (not the Son) who is said `to come.' He is clearly separated from the Christ and his holy spirit in this verse. Therefore, the sense in which he will `come' must be as described above.

That simple. The preponderance of evidence clearly shows that Jesus the man, isn't Almighty God.

I said Revelation 1:7-8. I see your problem now. You're dishonest.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I agree that it is a dream with visions. I believe Daniel saw a succession of four worldly kingdoms that are described as beasts. I am under the belief that these four beasts represented the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greco-Macedonian, and the Roman-Holy Roman Empires. The vision continues to end times when the Son of Man comes again upon the earth and rules in righteousness. However, I do believe that Jesus comes to the Ancient Days here upon this earth to receive his kingdom. I just differ in who the Ancient of Days is. I believe it will be Adam, aka Michael, who will be assembled with the Saints of God and will turn over the kingdom of this earth to our Lord Jesus. Jesus will then go and place his foot upon the Mount of Olives and save the Jews from utter destruction. He will then appear to all the World an usher in the Millennial reign upon the earth before the earth is celestialized and become part of the Kingdom of Heaven. We will just have to differ on who the Ancient of Days is.

If you read the angel's interpretation of the vision, you'll see that the "Son Of Man" symbol or element represents the Tzadikim, or "Saints", those who keep YHWH's Law/Torah. The beasts are nations, empires, belonging to people who don't keep God's Law. The Tzadikim will rule over the nations. That's the literal, most accurate interpretation of the vision, according to the angel himself. Now if Christians want to project Jesus into the vision, making the Son of Man Jesus, and the Muslims project Muhammad, that's their prerogative. You can project whatever you want on the vision, I prefer the angel's clear interpretation.

The loud "horn", waging war against the Tzadikim, trying to change Torah or eliminate it, is Edom. The last empire, Rome, was connected to Paulianity/Christianity.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I said Revelation 1:7-8. I see your problem now. You're dishonest.

You're confused and need to relax. Simmer down. The previous verses are the context of what you're citing, and the following verses (what you cited), is clearly the same God in verse 4. He is the Almighty, not Jesus. Stop worshiping a man as Almighty God, that's idolatry. You're hurting yourself.

 

[BS Filter]

You're confused and need to relax. Simmer down. The previous verses are the context of what you're citing, and the following verses (what you cited), is clearly the same God in verse 4. He is the Almighty, not Jesus. Stop worshiping a man as Almighty God, that's idolatry. You're hurting yourself.

You're a liar.

 

[TruthNotBS]

You're a liar.

Rev 1:4-5 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; (5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

John refers to Almighty God, and His Seven Spirits, and then he mentions Jesus. Almighty God is the one who is, and which was, and which is to come. A few verses after that, which are the verses you quoted, speak of the same Almighty God, who is to come and has His seven spirits. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

 

[AHZ]

All who can think for self reasonably will answer-NO to the question.

One greater than Jesus gave him all authority in heaven and on earth- Matt 28:18---Fact-God has always had the authority, none can give it to him.
One greater than Jesus gave him the judging duties-John 5:27--God was already judge.
God was king-1Chron 16:31--One greater than Jesus appointed him to a kingship( Dan 7:13-15)--But then Jesus must hand back the kingdom( 1Cor 15:24-28) to his God and Father and subject himself---God is in subjection to no one.
Jesus and his real teachers teach Jesus has a God=his Father-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--2Cor 1:3, Eph 1:3, Col 1:3--1Pet 1:3) God does not have a God.
Jesus teaches he can do 0 of his own( John 5:19, 30)--God did all the powerful works-THROUGH-Jesus( Acts 2:22, 1 Cor 8:5-6)--God created all things-99.9% -THROUGH- Jesus( Col 1:16)--He created Jesus first and last direct=The firstborn of all creation( Col 1:15) The only begotten son.

There is no capitol G God to the word at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons- The true God called-Ton Theon=God, the word called Theon=god when in the same paragraph with Ton Theon as 2 Cor 4:4 clearly shows, its why there is a difference. translating works the same at both spots.

All being mislead into worshipping a non existent trinity created at the councils of Catholicism are breaking Gods #1 commandment daily. Not somewhere one wants to be standing.---Think about these facts, God warned all-GET OUT OF HER.

 

[BS Filter]

Rev 1:4-5 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; (5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

John refers to Almighty God, and His Seven Spirits, and then he mentions Jesus. Almighty God is the one who is, and which was, and which is to come. A few verses after that, which are the verses you quoted, speak of the same Almighty God, who is to come and has His seven spirits. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

You're a liar. Until you correctly quote me, this not going anywhere. I don't play that game.

 

[TruthNotBS]

You're a liar. Until you correctly quote me, this not going anywhere. I don't play that game.

You keep calling me a liar and ignoring what I'm saying. I just showed you that in verses 4-5 of the same chapter, just a couple of verses before the ones you cited, YHWH God, the heavenly Father, who has His seven spirits, is the one to come. He is the one who was, who is, and will come.

Rev 1:1-13 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (2) Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. (3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (4) John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; (5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (9) I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (10) I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, (11) Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. (12) And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; (13) And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Verse 11 isn't in the earliest, most reliable manuscripts. It's an interpolation or a fraud.

1. New International Version (NIV): The NIV includes a footnote for Revelation 1:11 that states, "Some early manuscripts do not have 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.'"
2. New American Standard Bible (NASB): The NASB also provides a footnote for Revelation 1:11, saying, "Early mss do not contain: 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last.' 'What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'"
3. English Standard Version (ESV): The ESV includes a similar footnote, indicating, "Some manuscripts omit the words from I am the Alpha and the Omega to before the words Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches."

Manuscripts such as Codex Sinaiticus (4th century) and Codex Alexandrinus (5th century), which are the oldest and most important witnesses to the text of Revelation, do not include Revelation 1:11. The earlier reference to the one who is and was and will come, is a clear reference to YHWH Father, not Jesus. You can continue calling me a liar and insulting me, but the facts are the facts, whether you like it or not.

 

[BS Filter]

You keep calling me a liar and ignoring what I'm saying. I just showed you that in verses 4-5 of the same chapter, just a couple of verses before the ones you cited, YHWH God, the heavenly Father, who has His seven spirits, is the one to come. He is the one who was, who is, and will come.

Rev 1:1-13 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (2) Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. (3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (4) John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; (5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (9) I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (10) I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, (11) Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. (12) And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; (13) And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Verse 11 isn't in the earliest, most reliable manuscripts. It's an interpolation or a fraud.

1. New International Version (NIV): The NIV includes a footnote for Revelation 1:11 that states, "Some early manuscripts do not have 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.'"
2. New American Standard Bible (NASB): The NASB also provides a footnote for Revelation 1:11, saying, "Early mss do not contain: 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last.' 'What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'"
3. English Standard Version (ESV): The ESV includes a similar footnote, indicating, "Some manuscripts omit the words from I am the Alpha and the Omega to before the words Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches."

Manuscripts such as Codex Sinaiticus (4th century) and Codex Alexandrinus (5th century), which are the oldest and most important witnesses to the text of Revelation, do not include Revelation 1:11. The earlier reference to the one who is and was and will come, is a clear reference to YHWH Father, not Jesus. You can continue calling me a liar and insulting me, but the facts are the facts, whether you like it or not.

Yes, you're a liar and I'm ignoring you. You're dishonest and a liar.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Yes, you're a liar and I'm ignoring you. You're dishonest and a liar.

How am I a liar? Please explain. What am I lying about?

 

[kjw47]

You keep calling me a liar and ignoring what I'm saying. I just showed you that in verses 4-5 of the same chapter, just a couple of verses before the ones you cited, YHWH God, the heavenly Father, who has His seven spirits, is the one to come. He is the one who was, who is, and will come.

Rev 1:1-13 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (2) Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. (3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (4) John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; (5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (9) I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (10) I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, (11) Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. (12) And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; (13) And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Verse 11 isn't in the earliest, most reliable manuscripts. It's an interpolation or a fraud.

1. New International Version (NIV): The NIV includes a footnote for Revelation 1:11 that states, "Some early manuscripts do not have 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.'"
2. New American Standard Bible (NASB): The NASB also provides a footnote for Revelation 1:11, saying, "Early mss do not contain: 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last.' 'What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'"
3. English Standard Version (ESV): The ESV includes a similar footnote, indicating, "Some manuscripts omit the words from I am the Alpha and the Omega to before the words Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches."

Manuscripts such as Codex Sinaiticus (4th century) and Codex Alexandrinus (5th century), which are the oldest and most important witnesses to the text of Revelation, do not include Revelation 1:11. The earlier reference to the one who is and was and will come, is a clear reference to YHWH Father, not Jesus. You can continue calling me a liar and insulting me, but the facts are the facts, whether you like it or not.

They cant help it. Its the altered translations that mislead they use. They believe the errors over the truths.

 

[BS Filter]

Challenge to JWs. Watch the entire video.

 

[surada]

All who can think for self reasonably will answer-NO to the question.

One greater than Jesus gave him all authority in heaven and on earth- Matt 28:18---Fact-God has always had the authority, none can give it to him.
One greater than Jesus gave him the judging duties-John 5:27--God was already judge.
God was king-1Chron 16:31--One greater than Jesus appointed him to a kingship( Dan 7:13-15)--But then Jesus must hand back the kingdom( 1Cor 15:24-28) to his God and Father and subject himself---God is in subjection to no one.
Jesus and his real teachers teach Jesus has a God=his Father-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--2Cor 1:3, Eph 1:3, Col 1:3--1Pet 1:3) God does not have a God.
Jesus teaches he can do 0 of his own( John 5:19, 30)--God did all the powerful works-THROUGH-Jesus( Acts 2:22, 1 Cor 8:5-6)--God created all things-99.9% -THROUGH- Jesus( Col 1:16)--He created Jesus first and last direct=The firstborn of all creation( Col 1:15) The only begotten son.

There is no capitol G God to the word at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons- The true God called-Ton Theon=God, the word called Theon=god when in the same paragraph with Ton Theon as 2 Cor 4:4 clearly shows, its why there is a difference. translating works the same at both spots.

All being mislead into worshipping a non existent trinity created at the councils of Catholicism are breaking Gods #1 commandment daily. Not somewhere one wants to be standing.---Think about these facts, God warned all-GET OUT OF HER.

Well, the Millerites have morphed through a lot of changes.

 

[kjw47]

Well, the Millerites have morphed through a lot of changes.

Millerites followed William Miller. Mr Russell started the bible students.

 

[surada]

jesus wasn't talking to himself.

King David said the same thing.

Psalms 22 Is classified as a “prayer for help” composed by King David. As with many other such prayers in the Psalms (see Psalm 2:1; 10:1; 13:1–2; 52:1; 74:1), it begins with an anguished cry and hopeless complaint, posed as an appeal to God for help: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish? My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, but I find no rest” (Psalm 22:1–2).

 

[surada]

If you read the angel's interpretation of the vision, you'll see that the "Son Of Man" symbol or element represents the Tzadikim, or "Saints", those who keep YHWH's Law/Torah. The beasts are nations, empires, belonging to people who don't keep God's Law. The Tzadikim will rule over the nations. That's the literal, most accurate interpretation of the vision, according to the angel himself. Now if Christians want to project Jesus into the vision, making the Son of Man Jesus, and the Muslims project Muhammad, that's their prerogative. You can project whatever you want on the vision, I prefer the angel's clear interpretation.

The loud "horn", waging war against the Tzadikim, trying to change Torah or eliminate it, is Edom. The last empire, Rome, was connected to Paulianity/Christianity.

The Edomites were forcibly converted to Judaism by John Hyrcanus.

John Hyrcanus I | Maccabean ruler, Judean dynasty | Britannica

John Hyrcanus I was a high priest and ruler of the Jewish nation from 135/134 to 104 bc. Under his reign, the Hasmonean kingdom of Judaea in ancient Palestine attained power and great prosperity, and the Pharisees, a scholarly sect with popular backing, and the Sadducees, an aristocratic sect that

www.britannica.com

 

[BS Filter]

Millerites followed William Miller. Mr Russell started the bible students.

Correct. There's a cross on the head stone of Russell's grave.

 

[surada]

Although Hyrcanus struggled in vain to destroy Ptolemy, he successfully thwarted Syrian incursions by alliance with Rome and conquered the unfriendly neighbouring territories of Samaria and Idumaea (Edom). He forced Idumaea to convert to Judaism, the first example of conversion imposed by the Jews in their history.

 

[kjw47]

Correct. There's a cross on the head stone of Russell's grave.

Yes, there were only error filled trinity translations to go by in his search for truth. Errors brought in by Catholicism centuries prior like the cross, He celebrated holidays as well. Gave worship to Jesus, etc, Through the years corrections were made. He still found many truths and corrected the errors. How do you think Mr. Russell could say this in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914? Rev 6:4--the year the 4 riders began.

 

[BS Filter]

Yes, there were only error filled trinity translations to go by in his search for truth. Errors brought in by Catholicism centuries prior like the cross, He celebrated holidays as well. Gave worship to Jesus, etc, Through the years corrections were made. He still found many truths and corrected the errors. How do you think Mr. Russell could say this in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914? Rev 6:4--the year the 4 riders began.

1914. False prophecy. Scripture says if you claim to be a prophet of God and you're wrong ONCE, you're a false prophet. That's Scripture. No excuses.