Is it time for Universal Healthcare....and can it be done?

[Redfish]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

what do you think your tax bill would be if every American citizen was given "free" healthcare? It aint free, dude, someone has to pay.

 

[Redfish]

Here's how: Treat health insurance much like we treat life insurance and to a lesser degree car insurance. Subsidize health insurance for the very poor, and let everyone else buy whatever health insurance they want and can afford. Do NOT mandate that people buy health insurance. The government has no right to force people to buy a product for their body. And do NOT let the government start mandating coverage levels. That was one of Obamacare's biggest flaws and was the reason that so many people lost their health insurance under Obamacare (including my oldest son).

we already do those things, Medicaid covers those unable to pay. and since the obozocare mandate is gone, you can buy what you want or buy nothing.

 

[mudwhistle]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

You can't be a conservative.
A conservative would know that government health care isn't cheap or free from abuse.

Government health care is the lowest quality health care in America.

You would also know that anything the government touches is highly regulated, overpriced, and there's usually a line of people in front of you that didn't pay into it.

 

[mudwhistle]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

what do you think your tax bill would be if every American citizen was given "free" healthcare? It aint free, dude, someone has to pay.

Obamacare was slated to be a 40% tax increase. Free health coverage would triple that. Imagine a new government program that illegals could sign up for which will raise your federal tax from 15% to 60%. You might as well not work.

 

[Redfish]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

what do you think your tax bill would be if every American citizen was given "free" healthcare? It aint free, dude, someone has to pay.

Obamacare was slated to be a 40% tax increase. Free health coverage would triple that. Imagine a new government program that illegals could sign up for which will raise your federal tax from 15% to 60%. You might as well not work.

yep, socialist utopia, everyone gets free stuff and no one has to work.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

You can't be a conservative.
A conservative would know that government health care isn't cheap or free from abuse.

Government health care is the lowest quality health care in America.

You would also know that anything the government touches is highly regulated, overpriced, and there's usually a line of people in front of you that didn't pay into it.

Then what is the answer?
At the rate we are going, healthcare cost will become a full third of the GDP and your insurance cost will be the largest monthly bill you have.'
That is where we are now.
And that is not the answer either.

 

[dblack]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

You can't be a conservative.
A conservative would know that government health care isn't cheap or free from abuse.

Government health care is the lowest quality health care in America.

You would also know that anything the government touches is highly regulated, overpriced, and there's usually a line of people in front of you that didn't pay into it.

Then what is the answer?
At the rate we are going, healthcare cost will become a full third of the GDP and your insurance cost will be the largest monthly bill you have.'
That is where we are now.
And that is not the answer either.

I'm reminded of the old joke -

Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this..."
Doctor: "Don't do that."

Seriously, employer provided group health insurance has been a disaster. Instead of propping it up, even more, with government, let it pass. Find something better. Just don't force everyone else to play along with your preferred solution.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Seriously, employer provided group health insurance has been a disaster. Instead of propping it up, even more, with government, let it pass. Find something better. Just don't force everyone else to play along with your preferred solution.

I don't know where you get that. Perhaps you are not old enough or knowledgeable enough to know that the employer-based insurance was THE best healthcare in the world...that is...before corporatism ruined it like they have ruined a great many things that use to be good.
The problem today is rising cost, with the "rise" primarily being cost of insurance. Actual medical cost for most conditions have been going down, not up.

The biggest problem in America is horrific eating habits. Child Diabetes type 2 for instance, didn't even exist a few decades ago.
Obesity is magnificently expensive. Food related illnesses, primarily diabetes and heart disease, eats up 67% of all healthcare costs in America according to a study.
The sickest 5% of this country account for over half of the TOTAL U.S. healthcare dollars spent!!
Yet....preventative care and nutritional education is virtually non-existent. Most of the attention is diets that don't work. And will never work.

Truth is, if Americans stopped the cheeseburgers and ate a few more salads, turned down the ice cream and cake and chose a few more fruits instead - healthcare cost would drop by nearly half.

 

[Redfish]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

You can't be a conservative.
A conservative would know that government health care isn't cheap or free from abuse.

Government health care is the lowest quality health care in America.

You would also know that anything the government touches is highly regulated, overpriced, and there's usually a line of people in front of you that didn't pay into it.

Then what is the answer?
At the rate we are going, healthcare cost will become a full third of the GDP and your insurance cost will be the largest monthly bill you have.'
That is where we are now.
And that is not the answer either.

do you think the cost of healthcare will go down when you make it an entitlement and let the government run it? Taxes would skyrocket and the economy would tank. The government does not owe you free medical care any more than the government owes you a house, a car, or a filet mignon.

 

[mudwhistle]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

You can't be a conservative.
A conservative would know that government health care isn't cheap or free from abuse.

Government health care is the lowest quality health care in America.

You would also know that anything the government touches is highly regulated, overpriced, and there's usually a line of people in front of you that didn't pay into it.

Then what is the answer?
At the rate we are going, healthcare cost will become a full third of the GDP and your insurance cost will be the largest monthly bill you have.'
That is where we are now.
And that is not the answer either.

Ask any doctor what the answer is.
Most will tell you getting the government out of health care would go a long way toward solving the problem. Doctors spend more time filling out forms on their computers than the spend with their patients

Then there's the skyrocketing costs.
Rand Paul knows the answer. Create private health care associations that spread out the costs.

Rand Paul's reform proposal could revolutionize US health care

 

[iamwhatiseem]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

You can't be a conservative.
A conservative would know that government health care isn't cheap or free from abuse.

Government health care is the lowest quality health care in America.

You would also know that anything the government touches is highly regulated, overpriced, and there's usually a line of people in front of you that didn't pay into it.

Then what is the answer?
At the rate we are going, healthcare cost will become a full third of the GDP and your insurance cost will be the largest monthly bill you have.'
That is where we are now.
And that is not the answer either.

do you think the cost of healthcare will go down when you make it an entitlement and let the government run it? Taxes would skyrocket and the economy would tank. The government does not owe you free medical care any more than the government owes you a house, a car, or a filet mignon.

NOt sure why everyone keeps saying "free"??
I have clearly never said it would be free. Rather taking the insurance cost we all pay, and moving it into another system.

BUT - The biggest thing I want is A SOLUTION.
Like I said, going like we are, healthcare will be a 1/3rd of the GDP in the not so distant future. And it will become the single largest monthly bill you will pay.
This is going to happen if nothing is done.

One idea is a FAT TAX, as I said before, 67% of all healthcare dollars spent in America is to treat a diet-related illness.
Diabetes used to be fairly rare. It isn't anymore.
Heart Disease has steadily climbed every decade... overwhelmingly due to a horrific American diet.
Show I have to pay as much as 50% higher heailtcare rates because YOU can't stop going to ******* McDonalds everyday? And drink 6 cans of soda??
Why not a FAT TAX? ("Tax" being weight/height ratio and body fat % directly effecting your monthly insurance cost)
Not a tax collected, but higher premiums.

 

[Kosh]

In the US universal healthcare is not possible.

For many reasons, but most importantly, where it does work is that the population is mostly of that nation. Such as in Europe many nations are almost 85% white, In Japan close 90% are Asian. Especially in they infamous Cuba where over 95% of the population is Latino. So it will work better under those circumstances, than a more diverse setup.

The other problem is the FDA has become so large and so corrupt that the medical companies wield more power than big pharma..

Many people getting procedures that are not safe, but under socialist rule rationed care will look like what the VA once was.

There has to be medical innovations and that will be a lot slower under a socialist system, plus the quality care will slump as doctors will get much lower salaries. With a MD that costs almost a million dollar to get, they have to be able to pay that back.

 

[Redfish]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

You can't be a conservative.
A conservative would know that government health care isn't cheap or free from abuse.

Government health care is the lowest quality health care in America.

You would also know that anything the government touches is highly regulated, overpriced, and there's usually a line of people in front of you that didn't pay into it.

Then what is the answer?
At the rate we are going, healthcare cost will become a full third of the GDP and your insurance cost will be the largest monthly bill you have.'
That is where we are now.
And that is not the answer either.

do you think the cost of healthcare will go down when you make it an entitlement and let the government run it? Taxes would skyrocket and the economy would tank. The government does not owe you free medical care any more than the government owes you a house, a car, or a filet mignon.

NOt sure why everyone keeps saying "free"??
I have clearly never said it would be free. Rather taking the insurance cost we all pay, and moving it into another system.

BUT - The biggest thing I want is A SOLUTION.
Like I said, going like we are, healthcare will be a 1/3rd of the GDP in the not so distant future. And it will become the single largest monthly bill you will pay.
This is going to happen if nothing is done.

One idea is a FAT TAX, as I said before, 67% of all healthcare dollars spent in America is to treat a diet-related illness.
Diabetes used to be fairly rare. It isn't anymore.
Heart Disease has steadily climbed every decade... overwhelmingly due to a horrific American diet.
Show I have to pay as much as 50% higher heailtcare rates because YOU can't stop going to ******* McDonalds everyday? And drink 6 cans of soda??
Why not a FAT TAX? ("Tax" being weight/height ratio and body fat % directly effecting your monthly insurance cost)
Not a tax collected, but higher premiums.

the VA is government managed healthcare, need I say more?

more taxes is always the answer, right? How about this, pay your own way. Take responsibility for your life.

your fat tax idea would have the libs screaming discrimination before it ever got anywhere near happening.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

You can't be a conservative.
A conservative would know that government health care isn't cheap or free from abuse.

Government health care is the lowest quality health care in America.

You would also know that anything the government touches is highly regulated, overpriced, and there's usually a line of people in front of you that didn't pay into it.

Then what is the answer?
At the rate we are going, healthcare cost will become a full third of the GDP and your insurance cost will be the largest monthly bill you have.'
That is where we are now.
And that is not the answer either.

do you think the cost of healthcare will go down when you make it an entitlement and let the government run it? Taxes would skyrocket and the economy would tank. The government does not owe you free medical care any more than the government owes you a house, a car, or a filet mignon.

NOt sure why everyone keeps saying "free"??
I have clearly never said it would be free. Rather taking the insurance cost we all pay, and moving it into another system.

BUT - The biggest thing I want is A SOLUTION.
Like I said, going like we are, healthcare will be a 1/3rd of the GDP in the not so distant future. And it will become the single largest monthly bill you will pay.
This is going to happen if nothing is done.

One idea is a FAT TAX, as I said before, 67% of all healthcare dollars spent in America is to treat a diet-related illness.
Diabetes used to be fairly rare. It isn't anymore.
Heart Disease has steadily climbed every decade... overwhelmingly due to a horrific American diet.
Show I have to pay as much as 50% higher heailtcare rates because YOU can't stop going to ******* McDonalds everyday? And drink 6 cans of soda??
Why not a FAT TAX? ("Tax" being weight/height ratio and body fat % directly effecting your monthly insurance cost)
Not a tax collected, but higher premiums.

the VA is government managed healthcare, need I say more?

more taxes is always the answer, right? How about this, pay your own way. Take responsibility for your life.

your fat tax idea would have the libs screaming discrimination before it ever got anywhere near happening.

Well....libs scream all the time...so...
And again, not really a tax but rather higher premiums.
Think of tobacco penalties.... our plan cost $45 more a month if you smoke or chew.
Why not charge $100 more a month if you are above a % of overweight?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

BTW - a little off topic, but you can't help but notice that poor people are far fatter than the rest of us.
In fact, the poorer you are, in America, the greater the chance of you also being obese.
Obviously, something wrong with that picture.

 

[bendog]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

Single payor in other countries results in the govt being a cost controller by denying providers prices they enjoy here. Whether that would change ... I tend to doubt. The govt is already setting provider reimbursement for medicare, and those prices are the basis for private reimbursement as well.

The Kochs' plan is no private insurance and no govt insurance. **** that and their one trick pony. I'll give Trump that much.

But imo the question is how you retain HC as a benefit a worker gets while at the same time encouraging the worker to consume as little as he needs at a minimum?

 

[Thinker101]

BTW - a little off topic, but you can't help but notice that poor people are far fatter than the rest of us.
In fact, the poorer you are, in America, the greater the chance of you also being obese.
Obviously, something wrong with that picture.

If you make the choice to not work and live off of the government or live off of others, I can't imagine other choices in your life, such as what you eat, would be good choices.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

Single payor in other countries results in the govt being a cost controller by denying providers prices they enjoy here. Whether that would change ... I tend to doubt. The govt is already setting provider reimbursement for medicare, and those prices are the basis for private reimbursement as well.

The Kochs' plan is no private insurance and no govt insurance. **** that and their one trick pony. I'll give Trump that much.

But imo the question is how you retain HC as a benefit a worker gets while at the same time encouraging the worker to consume as little as he needs at a minimum?

Stop eating at McDonalds.

 

[bendog]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

You can't be a conservative.
A conservative would know that government health care isn't cheap or free from abuse.

Government health care is the lowest quality health care in America.

You would also know that anything the government touches is highly regulated, overpriced, and there's usually a line of people in front of you that didn't pay into it.

Really? people on Medicare get poor quality HC? Where did you read that? LOL

 

[debbiedowner]

Dr. Trump will see you now.

Bend over.