Is healthcare a human right?

[Woodznutz]

Negative vs. Positive Rights: What Every Citizen Should Know​

Negative vs. Positive Rights: What Every Citizen Should Know

The concept of “rights” forms the backbone of American civic life. Many policy debates and moral controversies are framed using the language of rights, from healthcare and education to free speech and property.ContentsNegative Rights vs. Positive Rights: The Basic DifferenceWhere These Ideas...

govfacts.org

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Criminals give up their rights to freedom by committing crime.

People who deliberately abuse their health give up their rights to publicly funded healthcare.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Is education a human right? Safe roads? Clean water?

All civilized societies provide (or aim to) these basic services.

And, yes, the mechanism for providing these things has always been some variation of levying a tax on the citizens and using that money.

Have a better way? Slavery? Volunteerism? Cooperate sponsorship? Good luck.

Is everything a person needs or wants a "human right" in that it must be provided by some of the wealth of others being taken?

If not everything, what principle distinguishes between a human right and not a human right?

 

[SaxonJackson]

If so, then sickness is a human legacy.

Good health is a human legacy, which mitigates the need for healthcare. Sadly, people prefer illness and healthcare to good health.

Seeking health is certainly a human right. But nobody has the right to force me (us) to pay for someone else's health. As long as America's gluttons choose to live on Coke, Doritos, Oreos, Seed Oils, Sugar, MSG, Preservatives, Food Dyes, Pizza Hut, Dunkin' Donuts, Whiskey, and Marlboros, then they get to live with their decisions. Why should I (we) be forced to pay for their bad habits and the consequences of those bad habits?

 

[Orangecat]

Is healthcare a human right?​

Provided by others? No.
Self administered? Absolutely.
For example, I have every right to brush my own teeth, but no right to force you to brush my teeth or provide me with toothbrushes and toothpaste.

 

[braalian]

Basic healthcare is education. Doctors don't do this and insurance doesn't cover it.

Doctors and nurses try to educate patients all the time

You tell a patient they need to lose weight, most just become defensive.

Then they go on the internet and look until they find others that tell them what they want to hear: that it isn’t their fault, that their doctor/nurse was just being lazy or dismissive or stereotyping

Or, they’re fully aware that they’re destroying their body and just don’t care or don’t have the willpower to make the necessary changes

 

[Woodznutz]

If I may, some sincerely constructive criticism.

Your title does not tell us what you want to discuss.

A better one would be "Healthcare vs. Good Health," or some such.

I feel like I should respond twice, once to the title and once to the body.

Is healthcare a human right?​

Yes and no.

Yes, everyone has a right to seek healthcare. No one should ever block a person from a doctor's office, clinic or hospital and if the government were to do so, that would be a serious violation of their human right to seek healthcare and obtain it from those willing to provide it.

But I assume that is not what you meant?

No, because human rights are negative rights, such as the right not to be tortured, the right not to be exterminated in a genocide, the right not be be imprisoned without proof of a crime, the right not to have speech interfered with, etc. There is no "human right" to have others do things for you, such as paying for your healthcare, or clean water, or foodcare, or any of the other goods and services that certain types claim must be provided them in order not to violate their human rights.



I have to assume that you are male to say that.

Once I got married, I quickly realized how much healthcare women require, even when they have very good health. My wife was very healthy when I married her, young, fit from being a cross country athlete and riding her bike to work and to horse lessons. She grew up in a family that avoided overly salty or fatty foods, and ate primarily a mediteranian diet. Healthy as the proverbial horse.

She goes to the doctor way more than I ever did, with my unhealthy eating habits. If a woman does not regularly go to the doctor and does not experience the need for healthcare, I would chalk that up to lucky coincidence.

Good points. However, all that has been discussed as well.

In the absence of available medical treatment how is the right to healthcare secured ("if a tree falls in the forest...")

 

[braalian]

Is everything a person needs or wants a "human right" in that it must be provided by some of the wealth of others being taken?

If not everything, what principle distinguishes between a human right and not a human right?

I don’t know if it’s a “human right” or not. I’m not really sure that’s a useful term

But, yes, stuff like education, healthcare, roads, water, police, firefighters, etc….. all civilized societies aim to provide these things within the limits of their economic ability

That’s just a thing governments do. The main thing they’re there to do

 

[midcan5]

Depends on the humans. Some humans see life as it is and recognize its up and down and complexity, they would say yes it is a right or rather a goal of a humane society and nation. Others don't give a fluck and live in a world of grievance and annoyance. What would God say or your leader or your moral values say. I say Yes.

 

[Woodznutz]

Doctors and nurses try to educate patients all the time

You tell a patient they need to lose weight, most just become defensive.

Then they go on the internet and look until they find others that tell them what they want to hear: that it isn’t their fault, that their doctor/nurse was just being lazy or dismissive or stereotyping

Or, they’re fully aware that they’re destroying their body and just don’t care or don’t have the willpower to make the necessary changes

If a person doesn't take their doctor's advice, why do they still get medical treatment?

 

[Woodznutz]

I don’t know if it’s a “human right” or not. I’m not really sure that’s a useful term

But, yes, stuff like education, healthcare, roads, water, police, firefighters, etc….. all civilized societies aim to provide these things within the limits of their economic ability

That’s just a thing governments do. The main thing they’re there to do

People generally exercise the right to be ignorant, leaving the resulting messes for others to clean up.

 

[Woodznutz]

Seeking health is certainly a human right. But nobody has the right to force me (us) to pay for someone else's health. As long as America's gluttons choose to live on Coke, Doritos, Oreos, Seed Oils, Sugar, MSG, Preservatives, Food Dyes, Pizza Hut, Dunkin' Donuts, Whiskey, and Marlboros, then they get to live with their decisions. Why should I (we) be forced to pay for their bad habits and the consequences of those bad habits?

Zackly. And that's all well and good as long as they pay for their own health insurance.

 

[braalian]

If a person doesn't take their doctor's advice, why do they still get medical treatment?

Because they still want the treatment

 

[Concerned American]

Is education a human right? Safe roads? Clean water?

Interesting that you are comparing items that are for the "collective" good or items that 'promote the general welfare' to healthcare which is an individual benefit. Taxing for the promotion of the general welfare is not the same as taxing for 'individual charity.'

 

[Woodznutz]

Because they still want the treatment

They are treated because of Obamacare and Medicaid.

 

[braalian]

Interesting that you are comparing items that are for the "collective" good or items that 'promote the general welfare' to healthcare which is an individual benefit. Taxing for the promotion of the general welfare is not the same as taxing for 'individual charity.'

Healthcare isn’t general welfare?

 

[Woodznutz]

So who’s waving guns in people’s faces?

The Shumer Shutdown.

 

[braalian]

They are treated because of Obamacare and Medicaid.

And?

 

[Concerned American]

Healthcare isn’t general welfare?

Supporting the construction and operation of a county health facility is general welfare. Providing taxpayer funded health insurance is not. One is general and the other is individual---do you not understand the difference?

 

[Woodznutz]

And?

That's it. They are treated because someone is paying for or helping to pay for their treatment. Doctors are less concerned about their health and more concerned about the fees at that point.

 

[dblack]

That’s just a thing governments do. The main thing they’re there to do

And this, right here, is the primary disagreement we struggle with. I couldn't disagree more with this statement. But half the country sees it your way.