Is Evolution The Same as Scientology???

PoliticalChic

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Yeeshhh......anyone dares to criticize Scientology and they face all kinds of abuse, up to and including finding a rattlesnake in their mailbox!

Perhaps not to that extent....but dare to criticize evolution theory and the vituperation and verbal abuse....including slander and lies.....is but a moment away!

Why?
Do real folks engaged in and dedicated to 'science' behave that way?





1. The irrationality here is that any who suggest lapses, or errors in Darwinian evolutionary theory, gets attacked as...well, like this:

a. Emile Zuckerkandl, one of the founders of the field of molecular evolution, writing in the journal "Gene," found it difficult to contain his indignation:

"The intellectual virus named 'intelligent design'...the 'creationists'...have decided some years ago...to dress up in academic gear and to present themselves as scholars...laugh off this disguise...Naive members of the public...the wrong-foot...the only foot on which the promoters of intelligent design can get around...guided by a little angel...medieval concept...and intellectually dangerous condition...the divine jumping disease...humanity dug itself into 'faiths' like a blind leech into flesh and won't let go....Feeding like leeches on irrational beliefs....offensive little swarms of insects...."

Wow....that sure wasn't very nice.


b. Then there is Richard Dawkins, an Oxford zoologist, author, and media commentator, famous for his popular science books on evolution and his views on religion, " It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."
Richard Dawkins - Wikiquote







2. Calm down!...what are these guys so incensed about?
If one is thoroughly convinced of their rectitude....why be so upset if some folks disagree? Especially if what they say is undeniably true.....or maybe that's the reason for the anger.

a. This is what mathematician Dr. David Berlinski says:
"So, it seems that in our time, much of science is involved in an attack on traditional religious thought, and rational men and women must place their faith, and devotion, in this system of belief [i.e., in science alone]. And, like any militant church, science places a familiar demand before all others:
“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”'








3. Berlinski had a recent best-seller, "The Devil's Delusion."
But, it's not just contemporary criticism....during, and even before Darwin, the problem was discussed. In fact, there were scientists who thought that the fossil evidence presented a significant obstacle to the kind of thinking that produced "On The Origin of Species."

There was Roderick Murchison, a Scottish geologist who first described and investigated the Silurian system, which he named after a Welsh tribe....he studied the lowest strata of fossils, which was in Wales. Some five years before the publication of Darwin's signature work, he pointed out the sudden appearance of complex organs, the compound eyes of the first trilobites. So, he said, trilobites could not have evolved gradually from some primitive, simple form:
"The earliest signs of living things, announcing as they do a high complexity of organization, entirely exclude the hypothesis of a transmutation from lower to higher grades of being."
Sir Roderick Impey Murchison, "Siluria," p.469.

Gee....that sounds like science: take a demonstrable fact, and draw a conclusion from same.


a. Uh, oh.....if these organisms sprang, fully formed.....what can be the explanation? Can't be the kind of gradual change due to the compilation of random mutations, Darwin's theory.....
If that were the case, there would be fossils of transitional forms.....and there are not.

What should Zuckerkanl say?? Or Richard Dawkins??

Like..."Murchison is a little intellectual insect....or Murchison is ignorant, stupid or insane or wicked,..."

"Sir Roderick Impey Murchison, 1st Baronet KCB DCL FRS FRSE FLS PRGS PBA MRIA (22 February 1792[1] – 22 October 1871) was a Scottish geologist who first described and investigated the Silurian system." Roderick Murchison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Now...Darwin, he accepted the criticism...and faced the problem.

b. "The difficulty of understanding the absence of vast pile of fossiliferous strata, which on my theory were no doubt somewhere accumulated before the [Cambrian] epoch, is very great. I allude to the manner in which numbers of species of the same group suddenly appear in the lowest known fossiliferous rock."
Darwin, "On The Origin of Species," p. 306-307.





4. Even the other great geologist of the era, the one who named the Cambrian, that is, Adam Sedgwick...."For one summer of his work in Wales which was to lead to this controversy, Sedgwick made a fateful choice of field assistant: a young Cambridge graduate named Charles Darwin."( Adam Sedgwick (1785-1873))

But this didn't stop Sedgewick from spanking Darwin in 1859, upon reading his masterpiece: "You have deserted- after a start in that tram-road of all solid physical truth- the true method of induction."
CRITICS OF DARWINISM






So, what if Darwin's theory has holes in it.....big gaping holes.
Shouldn't conjecture....hypothesis...be inserted to fill those holes?

No matter where said conjecture leads us?
Why not simply say 'I have no idea of how the events could have produced trilobites.....and brachiopods, so prevalent in the Cambrian....without previous attempts, and failures, documented by transitional fossils.'

That would be the truth.

Why no truth?
'Cause it might lead to where most folks, including most scientists believe it would lead.


"According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not."
What do scientists think about religion? - Los Angeles Times


Is that what the fanatics so afraid of??
 
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Yeeshhh......anyone dares to criticize Scientology and they face all kinds of abuse, up to and including finding a rattlesnake in their mailbox!

Perhaps not to that extent....but dare to criticize evolution theory and the vituperation and verbal abuse....including slander and lies.....is but a moment away!

Why?
Do real folks engaged in and dedicated to 'science' behave that way?


1. The irrationality here is that any who suggest lapses, or errors in Darwinian evolutionary theory, gets attacked as...well, like this:

a. Emile Zuckerkandl, one of the founders of the field of molecular evolution, writing in the journal "Gene," found it difficult to contain his indignation:

"The intellectual virus named 'intelligent design'...the 'creationists'...have decided some years ago...to dress up in academic gear and to present themselves as scholars...laugh off this disguise...Naive members of the public...the wrong-foot...the only foot on which the promoters of intelligent design can get around...guided by a little angel...medieval concept...and intellectually dangerous condition...the divine jumping disease...humanity dug itself into 'faiths' like a blind leech into flesh and won't let go....Feeding like leeches on irrational beliefs....offensive little swarms of insects...."

Wow....that sure wasn't very nice.



b. Then there is Richard Dawkins, an Oxford zoologist, author, and media commentator, famous for his popular science books on evolution and his views on religion, " It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."
Richard Dawkins - Wikiquote


2. Calm down!...what are these guys so incensed about?
If one is thoroughly convinced of their rectitude....why be so upset if some folks disagree? Especially if what they say is undeniably true.....or maybe that's the reason for the anger.
I'm confused. If a few proponents of evolution spoke in an aggressive manner against the opponents of evolution, then that makes them similar to Scientologists? I agree that the way they spoke was out-of-hand, but I don't necessarily see a strong correlation between the two.

a. This is what mathematician Dr. David Berlinski says:
"So, it seems that in our time, much of science is involved in an attack on traditional religious thought, and rational men and women must place their faith, and devotion, in this system of belief [i.e., in science alone]. And, like any militant church, science places a familiar demand before all others:
“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”'
Mainly because science usually has valid evidence to support its claims, which is more reliable than the supposed information that most religions have to offer. However, that doesn't mean to put complete faith in scientific discoveries and theories, which often change. It's never a bad idea to question the information that is presented to you.


There was Roderick Murchison, a Scottish geologist who first described and investigated the Silurian system, which he named after a Welsh tribe....he studied the lowest strata of fossils, which was in Wales. Some five years before the publication of Darwin's signature work, he pointed out the sudden appearance of complex organs, the compound eyes of the first trilobites. So, he said, trilobites could not have evolved gradually from some primitive, simple form:
"The earliest signs of living things, announcing as they do a high complexity of organization, entirely exclude the hypothesis of a transmutation from lower to higher grades of being."
Sir Roderick Impey Murchison, "Siluria," p.469.

Gee....that sounds like science: take a demonstrable fact, and draw a conclusion from same.

a. Uh, oh.....if these organisms sprang, fully formed.....what can be the explanation? Can't be the kind of gradual change due to the compilation of random mutations, Darwin's theory.....
If that were the case, there would be fossils of transitional forms.....and there are not.
The explanation that I, and possibly many others, would come up with is the Cambrian explosion. The Cambrian explosion presented dramatic changes in Earth's biosphere (i.e. immense rise in oxygen levels, increase of calcium in the oceans, etc), which allowed more complex life to form. However, there is still a lot of speculation on the exact causes of the effects of Cambrian explosion.

What should Zuckerkanl say?? Or Richard Dawkins??

Like..."Murchison is a little intellectual insect....or Murchison is ignorant, stupid or insane or wicked,..."

"Sir Roderick Impey Murchison, 1st Baronet KCB DCL FRS FRSE FLS PRGS PBA MRIA (22 February 1792[1] – 22 October 1871) was a Scottish geologist who first described and investigated the Silurian system." Roderick Murchison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think it's unfair to put words in other people's mouths. We have no way of knowing what they would say... especially with Mr. Dawkins who is deceased.


So, what if Darwin's theory has holes in it.....big gaping holes.
Shouldn't conjecture....hypothesis...be inserted to fill those holes?
They had holes in them at the time, and he certainly didn't make much of an attempt to cover them up. Thankfully, we have developed them a bit more since then.

No matter where said conjecture leads us?
Why not simply say 'I have no idea of how the events could have produced trilobites.....and brachiopods, so prevalent in the Cambrian....without previous attempts, and failures, documented by transitional fossils.'
Most scientists say pretty much that, but they almost always speculate, which helps them form hypotheses. Hypotheses are essential in the formation of theories and facts. It's what helps our scientific understanding grow.

That would be the truth.

Why no truth?
'Cause it might lead to where most folks, including most scientists believe it would lead.


"According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not."
What do scientists think about religion? - Los Angeles Times
There are always going to be things that we do not understand or know... that is the purpose of science. It is a wonderful tool that aids us in our understanding of the universe. Unfortunately, some people take the easy way out and use the concept of god as an explanation for everything. This makes sense because not knowing can often be a bit frightening for some, and the existence of a god is very comforting. Of course, I completely understand why people did that hundreds of years ago, but... I honestly do not see a need for that now.
 
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Yeeshhh......anyone dares to criticize Scientology and they face all kinds of abuse, up to and including finding a rattlesnake in their mailbox!

Perhaps not to that extent....but dare to criticize evolution theory and the vituperation and verbal abuse....including slander and lies.....is but a moment away!

Why?
Do real folks engaged in and dedicated to 'science' behave that way?


1. The irrationality here is that any who suggest lapses, or errors in Darwinian evolutionary theory, gets attacked as...well, like this:

a. Emile Zuckerkandl, one of the founders of the field of molecular evolution, writing in the journal "Gene," found it difficult to contain his indignation:

"The intellectual virus named 'intelligent design'...the 'creationists'...have decided some years ago...to dress up in academic gear and to present themselves as scholars...laugh off this disguise...Naive members of the public...the wrong-foot...the only foot on which the promoters of intelligent design can get around...guided by a little angel...medieval concept...and intellectually dangerous condition...the divine jumping disease...humanity dug itself into 'faiths' like a blind leech into flesh and won't let go....Feeding like leeches on irrational beliefs....offensive little swarms of insects...."

Wow....that sure wasn't very nice.



b. Then there is Richard Dawkins, an Oxford zoologist, author, and media commentator, famous for his popular science books on evolution and his views on religion, " It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."
Richard Dawkins - Wikiquote


2. Calm down!...what are these guys so incensed about?
If one is thoroughly convinced of their rectitude....why be so upset if some folks disagree? Especially if what they say is undeniably true.....or maybe that's the reason for the anger.
I'm confused. If a few proponents of evolution spoke in an aggressive manner against the opponents of evolution, then that makes them similar to Scientologists? I agree that the way they spoke was out-of-hand, but I don't necessarily see a strong correlation between the two.

a. This is what mathematician Dr. David Berlinski says:
"So, it seems that in our time, much of science is involved in an attack on traditional religious thought, and rational men and women must place their faith, and devotion, in this system of belief [i.e., in science alone]. And, like any militant church, science places a familiar demand before all others:
“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”'
Mainly because science usually has valid evidence to support its claims, which is more reliable than the supposed information that most religions have to offer. However, that doesn't mean to put complete faith in scientific discoveries and theories, which often change. It's never a bad idea to question the information that is presented to you.



The explanation that I, and possibly many others, would come up with is the Cambrian explosion. The Cambrian explosion presented dramatic changes in Earth's biosphere (i.e. immense rise in oxygen levels, increase of calcium in the oceans, etc), which allowed more complex life to form. However, there is still a lot of speculation on the exact causes of the effects of Cambrian explosion.


I think it's unfair to put words in other people's mouths. We have no way of knowing what they would say... especially with Mr. Dawkins who is deceased.



They had holes in them at the time, and he certainly didn't make much of an attempt to cover them up. Thankfully, we have developed them a bit more since then.

No matter where said conjecture leads us?
Why not simply say 'I have no idea of how the events could have produced trilobites.....and brachiopods, so prevalent in the Cambrian....without previous attempts, and failures, documented by transitional fossils.'
Most scientists say pretty much that, but they almost always speculate, which helps them form hypotheses. Hypotheses are essential in the formation of theories and facts. It's what helps our scientific understanding grow.

That would be the truth.

Why no truth?
'Cause it might lead to where most folks, including most scientists believe it would lead.


"According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not."
What do scientists think about religion? - Los Angeles Times
There are always going to be things that we do not understand or know... that is the purpose of science. It is a wonderful tool that aids us in our understanding of the universe. Unfortunately, some people take the easy way out and use the concept of god as an explanation for everything. This makes sense because not knowing can often be a bit frightening for some, and the existence of a god is very comforting. Of course, I completely understand why people did that hundreds of years ago, but... I honestly do not see a need for that now.





What a well paced and reasonable rebuttal.
Good thing I didn't say all the folks supporting Darwin behaved like the fanatics.


1. "If a few proponents of evolution spoke in an aggressive manner against the opponents of evolution, then that makes them similar to Scientologists?"
I referred to Scientology based on exactly what you stated:
" ...proponents of evolution spoke in an aggressive manner against the opponents..."

Some proponents of Scientology are abrasive fanatics....as are some proponents of Darwinian evolution.




2. "... science usually has valid evidence to support its claims,..."
And there is no argument with those aspects.

This OP is specific, it refers only to the Cambrian fossils that Darwin needed to support his model of evolution.
They don't exist.....yet large segments of the science establishment continues to stone-wall the public,
"There are no weaknesses in the theory of evolution."
This was the testimony of Eugenie Scott to the Texas State Board of Education in January when the Board was debating new state science curriculum standards.
Dr. Scott is Executive Director of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), ..." Stutz, T. Texas education board debates teaching of evolution. Dallas Morning News, January 21, 2009....

Yet another example of science as scientology.





3. "... more reliable than the supposed information that most religions..."
Not about reliable information.
The OP deals with an area without such reliable information, and points out that the scientists-cum-scientologists rely on the same faith that religious people do.



4. "...The Cambrian explosion presented dramatic changes ....which allowed more complex life to form."
You misunderstand.

Environmental changes notwithstanding, where is the proof that simple organisms became the specimen of the Cambrian...."the age of the trilobites"?
They don't exist.
Murchison says that.
Sedgewick says that.
Darwin says that.
Therefore, to accept that the accumulation of random mutations, selected by the environment, produced the trilobites and brachiopods.....requires a form of faith....religious faith.
Agree, and we have no argument.


a. “By definition, all “theories” allegedly solving the same problem must begin with equal standing- in which case, anyone could invent a theory to account for the diversity of life (that all species came from outer space, for instance) and be given equal standing on a stage with Darwin and Wallace.”
Dr. Andrew Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p. 192 (He supports evolution)






5. "I think it's unfair to put words in other people's mouths. We have no way of knowing what they would say."
Of course we do.
They used the terms in attacks on any who do not accept the standard Darwinian theory.





6. "They had holes in them at the time, and he certainly didn't make much of an attempt to cover them up. Thankfully, we have developed them a bit more since then."

No we haven't.

a. "There is no fossil record establishing historical continuity of structure for most characters that might be used to assess relationships among phyla."
Katherine G. Field et al., "Molecular Phylogeny of the animal Kingdom," Science, Vol. 239, 12 February 1988, p. 748.

b. "We are now about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn't changed much -- ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin's time. By this I mean that some of the classic cases of Darwinian change in the fossil record such as the evolution of the horse in North America, have had to be discarded or modified as a result of more detailed information." (Field Museum of Natural History Bulletin, Chicago, 50:22-29)





7. "Unfortunately, some people take the easy way out and use the concept of god..."

And, about the scientists who resort to science-as-absurdity,....you say?

Berlinski calls them on it, as follows:

a. Dawkins, among others, has embraced the ‘multiverse,’ [the Landscape] idea, that there could be an infinite number of universes, each with some permutation of the natural laws of physics, vastly different from ours.

Why, then, scruple at the Deity? After all, the theologian need only apply to a single God and a single universe. Dawkins must appeal to infinitely many universes crammed with laws of nature wriggling indiscreetly and fundamental physical parameters changing as one travels the cosmos.

And- the entire gargantuan structure scientifically unobservable and devoid of any connection to experience.


b. Now, get this: Dawkins actually writes, “The key difference between the radically extravagant God hypothesis and the apparently extravagant multiverse hypothesis, is one of statistical improbability.”



I appreciated your responses.
I hope you'll consider mine.
 
It's important to understand that the criticisms of Evolution are ideological, not scientific. It comes primarily from the religious right because they have a vested interest in destroying the scientific explanation of the origins of life.

The religious right is not interested in scientific discovery. They are interested in promoting their religion first and foremost. Evolution challenges the Christian narrative of God creating the universe. Destroy the theory of Evolution and you destroy a primary criticism of the existence of God.
 
It's important to understand that the criticisms of Evolution are ideological, not scientific. It comes primarily from the religious right because they have a vested interest in destroying the scientific explanation of the origins of life.

The religious right is not interested in scientific discovery. They are interested in promoting their religion first and foremost. Evolution challenges the Christian narrative of God creating the universe. Destroy the theory of Evolution and you destroy a primary criticism of the existence of God.

It should also be stated that the religious right wants to attract the uni-brow/paste-eater/low thinkers to carry-on their economic terriorism of the middle class.
 
At the present time, the modern Theory of Evolution is simply the most robust of the Scientific Theories. It is supported by every cell in your body, PC. Cells which have over 90% of the same genetic material as a chimpanzee.

The geological record has many very complete records of evolution. From the formations of the Karoo, to the John Day Formation here in Oregon. But, giving links to these is a waste of effort, PC. For your objections to the Theory of Evolution are based on a world view that is definately 18th century.
 
Religions are not the savoir of the human race nor the planet. Religion has not stopped war, poverty or famines.
Religions are just as much responsible for the human condition on the planet as political ideologies.
 
Yeeshhh......anyone dares to criticize Scientology and they face all kinds of abuse, up to and including finding a rattlesnake in their mailbox!

This entire thread is born out of fear and ignorance: Fear of something you don't understand. You don't understand it and feel threatened by it so you attack it. It is irrational, and not based on reasoned understanding. And ignorance of the massive amounts of data that supports the theory of evolution. Ignorance of the benefits we all enjoy because of research that originated from the application of that theory. Research that continues to this day.

Perhaps not to that extent....but dare to criticize evolution theory and the vituperation and verbal abuse....including slander and lies.....is but a moment away!

tumblr_m1vi0yICPU1rrx2mao1_400.gif


Oh please.

Why?
Do real folks engaged in and dedicated to 'science' behave that way?

Why don't you get a science education and find out?

1. The irrationality here is that any who suggest lapses, or errors in Darwinian evolutionary theory, gets attacked as...well, like this:

a. Emile Zuckerkandl, one of the founders of the field of molecular evolution, writing in the journal "Gene," found it difficult to contain his indignation:

"The intellectual virus named 'intelligent design'...the 'creationists'...have decided some years ago...to dress up in academic gear and to present themselves as scholars...laugh off this disguise...Naive members of the public...the wrong-foot...the only foot on which the promoters of intelligent design can get around...guided by a little angel...medieval concept...and intellectually dangerous condition...the divine jumping disease...humanity dug itself into 'faiths' like a blind leech into flesh and won't let go....Feeding like leeches on irrational beliefs....offensive little swarms of insects...."

Wow....that sure wasn't very nice.

Why should we be nice? Would you be nice to a pharmacist who sold you a pint of petroleum jelly and called it a cure for cancer? What we have here are utterly unqualified individuals spending fortunes (likely stolen from their congregations) to try to get naïve and undereducated people to believe that they are eminently qualified to tell people that the theory of evolution is a lie - a theory that is based on 150 year years of hard-won scientific enquiry.


b. Then there is Richard Dawkins, an Oxford zoologist, author, and media commentator, famous for his popular science books on evolution and his views on religion, " It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."
Richard Dawkins - Wikiquote

Is he wrong? I don't think he is.

2. Calm down!...what are these guys so incensed about?
If one is thoroughly convinced of their rectitude....why be so upset if some folks disagree? Especially if what they say is undeniably true.....or maybe that's the reason for the anger.

Why are we so incensed? Because you people think you can sit at the table at school board meetings across the country and pretend that you have equal academic status to decide what should and should not be taught in our science classrooms.

a. This is what mathematician Dr. David Berlinski says:
"So, it seems that in our time, much of science is involved in an attack on traditional religious thought, and rational men and women must place their faith, and devotion, in this system of belief [i.e., in science alone]. And, like any militant church, science places a familiar demand before all others:
“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”'

Utterly absurd. Science goes where the data leads it, and I think Berlinski, of all people, should understand this. David Berlinski is one of the principles of the Discovery Institute, the same religious organization that tried to get ID taught in the schools in Dover, Pennsylvania, the same organization that was roundhoused by a Bush-appointed Federal judge because they were misleading people into believing that ID was something other than what it actually was - creationism, which cannot, according to SCOTUS rulings, be taught in our public schools because it is a religious doctrine, not science.

3. Berlinski had a recent best-seller, "The Devil's Delusion."
But, it's not just contemporary criticism....during, and even before Darwin, the problem was discussed. In fact, there were scientists who thought that the fossil evidence presented a significant obstacle to the kind of thinking that produced "On The Origin of Species."

The only ones deluding themselves are people like Berlinksi, who, by the way, has no professional credentials in paleontology, and is well known for quote mining.

There was Roderick Murchison, a Scottish geologist who first described and investigated the Silurian system, which he named after a Welsh tribe....he studied the lowest strata of fossils, which was in Wales. Some five years before the publication of Darwin's signature work, he pointed out the sudden appearance of complex organs, the compound eyes of the first trilobites. So, he said, trilobites could not have evolved gradually from some primitive, simple form:
"The earliest signs of living things, announcing as they do a high complexity of organization, entirely exclude the hypothesis of a transmutation from lower to higher grades of being."
Sir Roderick Impey Murchison, "Siluria," p.469.

Murchison was a brilliant stratigrapher, and correctly identified the Silurian system. However, no one had yet correctly identified the Ordovician, the Cambrian, or the precambrian, and he did not understand when he made that statement that Trilobites did not originate in the Silurian system. What's more, the eye did not originate in trilobites, since many other organisms before them also had eyes. Furthermore, neither Darwin nor any other evolutionary scientist since has suggested that there is an arrow of complexity in evolution, as I've pointed out to you MANY times. Species adapt to their environment. The more unstable the environment, the more adaptable they must be. The more stable the environment, the LESS adaptable they need to be. Darwin understood natural selection, but did not understand genetic drift - no one in his day did. Murshison was more of a Lamarkian at the time of his discovery of the Silurian system.

This is a classic example of taking quotes out of context - quote mining.

a. Uh, oh.....if these organisms sprang, fully formed.....what can be the explanation? Can't be the kind of gradual change due to the compilation of random mutations, Darwin's theory.....
If that were the case, there would be fossils of transitional forms.....and there are not.

Write this down and stick it on the side of your monitor for future reference - ALL SPECIES ARE TRANSITIONAL". Got it?

Now...Darwin, he accepted the criticism...and faced the problem.

b. "The difficulty of understanding the absence of vast pile of fossiliferous strata, which on my theory were no doubt somewhere accumulated before the [Cambrian] epoch, is very great. I allude to the manner in which numbers of species of the same group suddenly appear in the lowest known fossiliferous rock."
Darwin, "On The Origin of Species," p. 306-307.

Let's see what he actually said (put it back into context):

http://www2.hn.psu.edu/faculty/jmanis/darwin/originspecies.pdf

To the question why we do not find records of these vast primordial periods, I can give no satisfactory answer. Several of the most eminent geologists, with Sir R. Murchison at their head, are convinced that we see in the organic remains of the lowest Silurian stratum the dawn of life on this planet. Other highly competent judges, as Lyell and the late E. Forbes, dispute this conclusion. We should not forget that only a small portion of the world is known with accuracy. M. Barrande has lately added another and
lower stage to the Silurian system, abounding with new and peculiar species. Traces of life have been detected in the Longmynd beds beneath Barrande’s so-called primordial zone. The presence of phosphatic nodules and bituminous matter in some of the lowest azoic rocks, probably indicates the former existence of life at these periods. But the difficulty
of understanding the absence of vast piles of fossiliferous strata, which on my theory no doubt were somewhere accumulated before the Silurian epoch, is very great
. If these most ancient beds had been wholly worn away by denudation, or obliterated by metamorphic action, we ought to find only small remnants of the formations next succeeding them in age, and these ought to be very generally in a metamorphosed condition. But the descriptions which we now possess of the Silurian deposits over immense territories in Russia and in North America, do not support the view, that the older a formation is, the more it has suffered the extremity of denudation and metamorphism.

Notice that what he is talking about is the fact that many strata that would be useful to science in answering these questions were not known to be available in Europe but that they WERE available in Russia and North America, which has vast deposits of Silurian and much older rocks, including all the rocks he needed to more fully use to describe his theory.

Keep in mind that these gentlemen were discussing the state of the science IN THEIR DAY. 150 years have transpired since these conversations took place. And in that time, we have advanced by orders of magnitude our understanding of the fossil and stratigraphic record. So here we have Berlinski trying to convince us that these 19th century conversations about what was then the unknown is applicable to today's science where they have long been addressed to the satisfaction of every geologist and biologist alive (except Berlinski, of course).

4. Even the other great geologist of the era, the one who named the Cambrian, that is, Adam Sedgwick...."For one summer of his work in Wales which was to lead to this controversy, Sedgwick made a fateful choice of field assistant: a young Cambridge graduate named Charles Darwin."( Adam Sedgwick (1785-1873))

But this didn't stop Sedgewick from spanking Darwin in 1859, upon reading his masterpiece: "You have deserted- after a start in that tram-road of all solid physical truth- the true method of induction."
CRITICS OF DARWINISM

Let's read what he actually said, shall we"

If I did not think you a good tempered & truth loving man I should not tell you that. . . I have read your book with more pain than pleasure. Parts of it I admired greatly; parts I laughed at till my sides were almost sore; other parts I read with absolute sorrow; because I think them utterly false & grievously mischievous-- You have deserted-- after a start in that tram-road of all solid physical truth-- the true method of induction. . .

Keep in mind that Sedgewick subscribed to the theory of catastrophism, which fell out of favor soon after his death. Darwin's research was one of several nails in the coffin that sank that theory, and so it should surprise no one that despite their long-time friendship, Sedgewick would be a bit upset with his findings.

Also note that in the very article where you took that quote, we find this:

He (Sedgewick) originally followed his collegue William Buckland in believing that the uppermost Pleistocene deposits had been laid down by the Biblical Flood, but retracted this belief after many of these deposits turned out to have been formed by glaciers, not floods. Sedgwick also did not object to evolution, or "development" as such theories were called then, in the broad sense -- to the fact that the life on Earth had changed over time. Nor was he a young-Earth creationist; he believed that the Earth must be extremely old. As Darwin wrote of Sedgwick's lectures, "What a capital hand is Sedgewick [sic] for drawing large cheques upon the Bank of Time!"

So in concluding, what we find here is a very poorly constructed attempt to make one believe (via quote mining) that the state of 19th century science is the state in which we find scientific enquiry today, that it has not progressed, that none of Darwin's questions or doubts have been resolved, when the fact of the matter is that none of them have NOT been resolved.[/quote]
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Bump. No response? I didn't think so.
 
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It's important to understand that the criticisms of Evolution are ideological, not scientific. It comes primarily from the religious right because they have a vested interest in destroying the scientific explanation of the origins of life.

The religious right is not interested in scientific discovery. They are interested in promoting their religion first and foremost. Evolution challenges the Christian narrative of God creating the universe. Destroy the theory of Evolution and you destroy a primary criticism of the existence of God.



Sorry you were unable to understand the issue.....really, it's quite simple: the evidence that is needed to support Darwin's theory, in reverence to the Cambrian Explosion is AWOL.

There is no denying that, other than outright lying.

Therefore, the question remains.....is there some other explanation?


Get it?
 
At the present time, the modern Theory of Evolution is simply the most robust of the Scientific Theories. It is supported by every cell in your body, PC. Cells which have over 90% of the same genetic material as a chimpanzee.

The geological record has many very complete records of evolution. From the formations of the Karoo, to the John Day Formation here in Oregon. But, giving links to these is a waste of effort, PC. For your objections to the Theory of Evolution are based on a world view that is definately 18th century.


I have no objections to any concept documented with proof.

If you understood science, you'd feel the same way.


"Although Darwin’s theory is often compared favorably to the great theories of mathematical physics on the grounds that evolution is as well established as gravity, very few physicists have been heard observing that gravity is as well established as evolution."
Dr.David Berlinski, mathematician
 
Religions are not the savoir of the human race nor the planet. Religion has not stopped war, poverty or famines.
Religions are just as much responsible for the human condition on the planet as political ideologies.

Not hardly, drop-draws.


In 2007, a number of scientists gathered in a conference entitled “Beyond Belief: Science, Religion, Reason, and Survival”
in order to attack religious thought and congratulate one an -
other on their fearlessness in so doing. The physicist Steven
Weinberg delivered an address. As one of the authors of the
theory of electroweak unification, the work for which he was
awarded a Nobel Prize, he is a figure of great stature.

“Religion,” he affirmed, “is an insult to human dignity. With or
without it you would have good people doing good things and
evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things,
that takes religion” (italics added).

In speaking thus, Weinberg was warmly applauded, not
one member of his audience asking the question one might
have thought pertinent: Just who has imposed on the suffering
human race poison gas, barbed wire, high explosives, experiments in eugenics, the formula for Zyklon B, heavy artillery,
pseudo-scientific justifications for mass murder, cluster bombs,
attack submarines, napalm, inter continental ballistic missiles,
military space platforms, and nuclear weapons?

From "The Devil's Delusion," Berlinski
 
Does the Theory of Evolution postulate that aliens came down after an intergalactic battle and deposited souls into volcanoes?

No?

Then no, they are nothing alike...
 
Religions are not the savoir of the human race nor the planet. Religion has not stopped war, poverty or famines.
Religions are just as much responsible for the human condition on the planet as political ideologies.

Not hardly, drop-draws.


In 2007, a number of scientists gathered in a conference entitled “Beyond Belief: Science, Religion, Reason, and Survival”
in order to attack religious thought and congratulate one an -
other on their fearlessness in so doing. The physicist Steven
Weinberg delivered an address. As one of the authors of the
theory of electroweak unification, the work for which he was
awarded a Nobel Prize, he is a figure of great stature.

“Religion,” he affirmed, “is an insult to human dignity. With or
without it you would have good people doing good things and
evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things,
that takes religion” (italics added).

In speaking thus, Weinberg was warmly applauded, not
one member of his audience asking the question one might
have thought pertinent: Just who has imposed on the suffering
human race poison gas, barbed wire, high explosives, experiments in eugenics, the formula for Zyklon B, heavy artillery,
pseudo-scientific justifications for mass murder, cluster bombs,
attack submarines, napalm, inter continental ballistic missiles,
military space platforms, and nuclear weapons?

From "The Devil's Delusion," Berlinski

None of which is relevant to the issue of the theory of evolution. But congratulations on being the winner of the 'miss conflating the issues' beauty pagent.
 
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Notice how she didn't even tough my response #12. It must have left her speechless, eh?
 
It's important to understand that the criticisms of Evolution are ideological, not scientific. It comes primarily from the religious right because they have a vested interest in destroying the scientific explanation of the origins of life.

The religious right is not interested in scientific discovery. They are interested in promoting their religion first and foremost. Evolution challenges the Christian narrative of God creating the universe. Destroy the theory of Evolution and you destroy a primary criticism of the existence of God.



Sorry you were unable to understand the issue.....really, it's quite simple: the evidence that is needed to support Darwin's theory, in reverence to the Cambrian Explosion is AWOL.

There is no denying that, other than outright lying.

Therefore, the question remains.....is there some other explanation?


Get it?

Being as clueless as you are to even the most basic precepts of the many sciences that support evolutionary biology makes you a poor candidate for any critique.

You are capable only of cutting and pasting from extremist websites. Why would you think that your cutting and pasting of phony, edited and parsed "quotes" would be taken seriously?
 

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