Intelligent, Respectful Political Discourse, RIP

[CrusaderFrank]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.

Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

What happened was the Clinton Administration. Every political battle became take no prisoners, shoot the survivors blood sport.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.

Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[BlueGin]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.

Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

That was a great example.
What happened? Reality TV (which is hardly reality) the entertainment source of the unwashed masses. That is how you get a reality TV host with no experience in government other than manipulating it for personal benefit as a president.

It didn’t start with Trump....sorry. The majority of politicians in Washington are not qualified to be there and then they turn around and sell favors to get their even less qualified kids/spouses/assorted relatives jobs in government...It’s been going on for decades. Weed them out, if you are not willing you are part of the problem. Obama is an empty suit that was ( and still is ) propped up by Hollywood and the entertainment media for superficial BS and had no business being president .but lefties worship at his feet. Same with every single member of “ the squad”.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.

Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

The Left smartly won the culture war and the right realizing this is lashing out. What do I mean by that?

- White Privilege is now a given
- People picking their own gender and biological men who think they are women are competing in sports vs actual women and using women’s locker rooms and bathrooms.
- BLM and Antifa burning down legitimate places of business with almost no repercussions. Think about this. During COVID a business owner is punished for opening their business but a looter is not for burning it down.
- Election of devout Muslim extremists into Congress who became a major voice for the party. Not one Democrat showed up for the embassy opening in Jerusalem. BDS movements are a norm at major universities and no one really cares. Blatant Antisemitism at work.
- Shows like the Jeffersons and Archie Bunker will never be on the air again. Even Gone with the Wind has been dropped by HBO. Many schools banning books like Huck Finn.
- Statues of our founding fathers are suddenly offensive.
- Kneeling for the anthem is the norm in some sports now.
- Defunding and or eliminating the police is a true mantra of the party.
- Nuclear Family is a white thing.
- US was built on racism not on hard work and freedoms.
- Big Tech uncomfortably favors the Left.
- Those who push back are threatened with cancel culture.

Most of not all of these are now adopted and readily taught at major universities. The Left has successfully won the culture war and many on the right who only worried about elections are realizing how badly they messed up and are now trying to fight back. Very difficult to have peaceful and courteous discussions when we cannot even agree what is a man and what is a woman.

Apologies for the long post.

 

[BigDave]

Didn't you see the disrespectful way the democrats tried to grill Barr? They were doing talking points and not letting him respond.
The gloves are off. Politics is now a contact sport. Wait until the senate drops the "filibuster" rule. Then its majority rules, period.

The days of friendliness across the political aisle are over for good never to return

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.
Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.
So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

Thanks for reposting this famous video. It gives a tiny glimpse of why the quiet and always brilliant Noam Chomsky was so respected as an anti-imperialist. Here he speaks far less than the verbose and pontificating Buckley but, in my opinion, is devastatingly effective and always factually on point. Of course William Buckley ran this TV program for years and published a well-financed and influential national conservative magazine, while Chomsky remained disdained as a “leftwing” kook, his views and perspectives always frozen out of the mass media and national conversation.

 

[WelfareQueen]

There used to be a fellow around here called Mac1958 who showed promise by way of understanding this, but then he caught the TDS virus and turned all woke. I miss the days when this fellow talked about the way the left assigns various identities to classes of either oppressor or oppressed and then reacted to these assumptions accordingly. Nowadays, he is one of the chief practitioners of this very process.

I've tried to impress that very same thing on him many times... he's denied it.

I have as well. Mac and I had many discussions, most worthwhile and useful. That person is gone. He denies it, but TDS has erased all rationality. Now he is one of the worst marginalized hacks on the board.

And Mac, I breathlessly await your thanks or funny to this post.

Here is a posting of his from 2018

How come dems don’t placate to whites or Christians?

At first glance it’s like they try to appease virtually every group that’s out there, but I got to thinking what it’s really about is pitting all of these groups against the majority, thus creating chaos and trying to destroy American society. Sure they pit everyone against each other, but in...

www.usmessageboard.com

I think it is only natural to ask. "Is this even the same person?!".



Oh, and as far as his recent penchant for funnying people's posts to show derision? Setting aside the fact that this totally undermines any appeal he might make by way of seeking respectful debate, this is also an entirely new practice for him as well.

Excellent example. Thank you. Great post by Mac that that shows how often we are all pitted against each other for political gain. Imho it was logical and reasonable. Any fair minded person could see his point.

And yeah, now it's like his account has been hacked. Mac has become like the tribe of Billy's on USMB that purely troll far left hate. There is no logic and reason behind it, just pure vitriol and disdain.

 

[MarcATL]

When do you wager this first took place OP?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Do you basically agree with this?

With all the rioting going on, there should be some clarity as to who is fighting for what......my best guess...

It seems Antifa simply wants chaos. This Soros funded group grabs whatever straw for the day they can use to create that chaos.
The end goal being to attract young anarchist and to have them at the ready when they are needed down the road.
The mayors of Portland and Chicago fit best into the Antifa clan. As well as that DA in St. Louis going after the white
couple who defended their home with their guns. They are probably getting a lot of financial support from Soros so they are bought.

BLM is supposedly riled up over Police Brutality towards blacks.
The problem I have with this is that in reality, more whites die in Police hands than blacks. Especially now.
The media only covers the black abuse. And unless you are free thinking, you easily buy the Medial propaganda.
So BLM is a group that feeds into the racism of extremist blacks.
They say their primary goal is Police reform, but being extremists, I doubt this is as far as they want to go.
They may become a political party with Maxine Waters as their idol and create a lot more racial division in America.

Then we have the Social Justice Warrior groups. Mostly white young liberals. These are simply indoctrinated, low IQ morons who think they
can still save the world by agreeing with BLM and Antifa. They have been ingrained with misinformation and hatred by leftist professors who convince
them that they are worthless, arrogant white piles of racist trash and that their only redemption is through admitting this.

Finally, we have the majority.
The majority consists of all the people who have worked hard and earned their pensions and good life or at least some stability.
Most of them probably believe that if they just don't bring attention to themselves, they can avoid all the changes, Transformations and violence.
The elder in this group especially. They will remain quiet to try to cling to their earnings and stash. The younger in this group
are more vocal and talk of militias and complain on forums, but tampered by their elders, also mostly remain silent.

And let's not forget AOC, another DIVISIONIST interest group looking to bring Socialism to America.

The bottom line is if the majority fails to quell these separatist uprisings, America will indeed fall just as Rome did.

 

[candycorn]

It’s still there but there is less of it.

 

[my2¢]

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

My conclusion has been conservative talk radio and liberal late night comedians have transformed politics into a sporting event. Added to that in search of the mighty dollar network news departments which once prided themselves on actual journalism are now under the guide of those from the entertainment departments. CNN in my view became worthless when they brought in a guy whose claim to fame, I read, was bringing Friday morning mini-concerts to the Today Show.

 

[Oddball]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.

Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

How many righties have been shouting down, charging stages with intent of assault, rioting, and/or cancelling a single leftist speaking anywhere?

Name one...I ******* defy you.

 

[mudwhistle]

Since A House Divided Against itself Cannot Stand.......

How long before the nation falls, and how badly wlll the suffering be for all when it does?

Lastly, will Democrats and Leftists find happiness after they achieve this goal, or will they find themselves screwed?

The terrible truth is most of these traitors are same-sex, and Communists/Islamic radicals put those types to death.
I believe that the Democrats will be falling under the knife very quickly the way Brownshirters met a quick death ala "Night Of The Long Knives".

Night of the Long Knives - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Oddball]

There used to be a fellow around here called Mac1958 who showed promise by way of understanding this, but then he caught the TDS virus and turned all woke. I miss the days when this fellow talked about the way the left assigns various identities to classes of either oppressor or oppressed and then reacted to these assumptions accordingly. Nowadays, he is one of the chief practitioners of this very process.

I've tried to impress that very same thing on him many times... he's denied it.

I have as well. Mac and I had many discussions, most worthwhile and useful. That person is gone. He denies it, but TDS has erased all rationality. Now he is one of the worst marginalized hacks on the board.

And Mac, I breathlessly await your thanks or funny to this post.

No shit...He piously decries "wingers" while having thrown in with the very worst of them.

Once again giving evidence to my oft made observation that self-awareness is completely absent from the left.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Do you basically agree with this?

With all the rioting going on, there should be some clarity as to who is fighting for what......my best guess...

It seems Antifa simply wants chaos. This Soros funded group grabs whatever straw for the day they can use to create that chaos.
The end goal being to attract young anarchist and to have them at the ready when they are needed down the road.
The mayors of Portland and Chicago fit best into the Antifa clan. As well as that DA in St. Louis going after the white
couple who defended their home with their guns. They are probably getting a lot of financial support from Soros so they are bought.

BLM is supposedly riled up over Police Brutality towards blacks.
The problem I have with this is that in reality, more whites die in Police hands than blacks. Especially now.
The media only covers the black abuse. And unless you are free thinking, you easily buy the Medial propaganda.
So BLM is a group that feeds into the racism of extremist blacks.
They say their primary goal is Police reform, but being extremists, I doubt this is as far as they want to go.
They may become a political party with Maxine Waters as their idol and create a lot more racial division in America.

Then we have the Social Justice Warrior groups. Mostly white young liberals. These are simply indoctrinated, low IQ morons who think they
can still save the world by agreeing with BLM and Antifa. They have been ingrained with misinformation and hatred by leftist professors who convince
them that they are worthless, arrogant white piles of racist trash and that their only redemption is through admitting this.

Finally, we have the majority.
The majority consists of all the people who have worked hard and earned their pensions and good life or at least some stability.
Most of them probably believe that if they just don't bring attention to themselves, they can avoid all the changes, Transformations and violence.
The elder in this group especially. They will remain quiet to try to cling to their earnings and stash. The younger in this group
are more vocal and talk of militias and complain on forums, but tampered by their elders, also mostly remain silent.

And let's not forget AOC, another DIVISIONIST interest group looking to bring Socialism to America.

The bottom line is if the majority fails to quell these separatist uprisings, America will indeed fall just as Rome did.

Great analysis imho. I would only add a simple maxim from Hinduism: Good builds and creates. Always. Evil destroys. Always.

Think of the various factions operating in America now and ask yourself a simple question. Who is seeking to build and who is seeking to destroy?

If you answer that question honestly you will know where to stand.

 

[White 6]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.

Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

That was a great example.
What happened? Reality TV (which is hardly reality) the entertainment source of the unwashed masses. That is how you get a reality TV host with no experience in government other than manipulating it for personal benefit as a president.

It didn’t start with Trump....sorry. The majority of politicians in Washington are not qualified to be there and then they turn around and sell favors to get their even less qualified kids/spouses/assorted relatives jobs in government...It’s been going on for decades. Weed them out, if you are not willing you are part of the problem. Obama is an empty suit that was ( and still is ) propped up by Hollywood and the entertainment media for superficial BS and had no business being president .but lefties worship at his feet. Same with every single member of “ the squad”.

"Majority of politicians in Washington are not justified to be there...,sell favors to get their even less qualified kids/spouses/assorted relatives jobs in government " Yep. Sounds about right to me. We agree.
Obama an empty suit? Certainly not as filled out as far left supporters in Hollywood and media, portend. But to me he is not relevant now, just as Baby Bush and Jimmy (Mr Peanut) Carter. I am aware of the worship at feet, bit along with "the squad". That kind of thing only possible with a reality TV audience like mindset and values.
Trump did not start it? No, but he saw the advantage of manipulating a reality TV national audience for ratings not sound leadership coalitions across the electorate.

 

[Mac1958]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.
Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.
So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

Thanks for reposting this famous video. It gives a tiny glimpse of why the quiet and always brilliant Noam Chomsky was so respected as an anti-imperialist. Here he speaks far less than the verbose and pontificating Buckley but, in my opinion, is devastatingly effective and always factually on point. Of course William Buckley ran this TV program for years and published a well-financed and influential national conservative magazine, while Chomsky remained disdained as a “leftwing” kook, his views and perspectives always frozen out of the mass media and national conversation.

I suspect the media figures he's too dry for mass consumption. He has no interest in speaking in sound bytes, he's very patient in making points, and he's not at all given to hyperbole. That's an unattractive mix for too many people, sadly.

 

[007]

There used to be a fellow around here called Mac1958 who showed promise by way of understanding this, but then he caught the TDS virus and turned all woke. I miss the days when this fellow talked about the way the left assigns various identities to classes of either oppressor or oppressed and then reacted to these assumptions accordingly. Nowadays, he is one of the chief practitioners of this very process.

I've tried to impress that very same thing on him many times... he's denied it.

I have as well. Mac and I had many discussions, most worthwhile and useful. That person is gone. He denies it, but TDS has erased all rationality. Now he is one of the worst marginalized hacks on the board.

And Mac, I breathlessly await your thanks or funny to this post.

No shit...He piously decries "wingers" while having thrown in with the very worst of them.

Once again giving evidence to my oft made observation that self-awareness is completely absent from the left.

How can they be self aware when they've been indoctrinated into group think? They know that to stray off the leftist plantation is suicide, that is strictly forbidden, so they blindly follow the herd, unthinking, unquestioning, like the good little brain dead, lock step sheeple they've been taught to be.

 

[Fang]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.

Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

Look in the mirror, ass wipe.

Your irony is enough to make a horse laugh.

^^^^ THIS

/thread end

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.
Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.
So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

Thanks for reposting this famous video. It gives a tiny glimpse of why the quiet and always brilliant Noam Chomsky was so respected as an anti-imperialist. Here he speaks far less than the verbose and pontificating Buckley but, in my opinion, is devastatingly effective and always factually on point. Of course William Buckley ran this TV program for years and published a well-financed and influential national conservative magazine, while Chomsky remained disdained as a “leftwing” kook, his views and perspectives always frozen out of the mass media and national conversation.

Chomsky is a fan of Pol Pot.

His polical views are extremely derivative and hackneyed. All a person has to do is read Bin Laden's Letters to America and then read Chomsky on the same subject. All he does is regurgitate Bin Laden's talking points, but dresses them up with that hallmark lurid prose of his.