Insurance driving police reform.

[SavannahMann]

I don’t believe in Rights. Definitely not for criminals.

The Constitution does. In fact. About half of the Bill of Rights covers courts and rights of the accused.

 

[August West]

Police reform? By early 2022 there was a 43% increase of Police Officers who were shot by felonious criminals. If a segment of society needs to be reformed it might be the judicial system.

They were shot by people with GUNS. Can we even make an attempt to keep the GUNS out of the wrong hands? Reform the judicial system?

 

[fncceo]

Can we even make an attempt to keep the GUNS out of the wrong hands? Reform the judicial system?

Not sure what judges have to do with keeping guns out of the wrong hands. Judges hear cases, legislators pass laws.

 

[Anathema]

The Constitution does. In fact. About half of the Bill of Rights covers courts and rights of the accused

The US Constitution ceased to be a meaningful document when Abraham Lincoln used it for proverbial toilet paper in 1861.

 

[dblack]

The US Constitution ceased to be a meaningful document when Abraham Lincoln used it for proverbial toilet paper in 1861.

To you, clearly.

 

[gipper]

You claimed Jeff Bezos has more rights than the rest of us. In particular, you said he "can get away with murder*. Why?

Money.

This isn’t hard.

 

[dblack]

Money.

This isn’t hard.

No - you claimed he could get away with murder. Do you have any evidence of that? Or is this just he usual socialist envy screed?

 

[gipper]

No - you claimed he could get away with murder. Do you have any evidence of that? Or is this just he usual socialist envy screed?

Yeah. The rich always get a different level of justice.

Socialist envy??? Is this what you think I’m promoting? Lmfao.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They're not dictating anything. They're just offering insurance coverage. Take it or leave it.

Bullshit. It's almost bribery. Do things our way and you get a discount on your insurance. Do things your way and it's more expensive That's not dictating?

 

[dblack]

Bullshit. It's almost bribery. Do things our way and you get a discount on your insurance. Do things your way and it's more expensive That's not dictating?

No, it's not. At all.

This view is the source of so much ill-conceived government regulation. If a company refuses to do what you want, they're not forcing anything on anyone. You (and in this case the municipalities looking for insurance for their police departments) don't have to do business with them. People really need to learn this.

Tell me, do you think the government should dictate terms to the insurance company instead? Does the insurance company have a right to say "no"?

 

[Quasar44]

Not sure what judges have to do with keeping guns out of the wrong hands. Judges hear cases, legislators pass laws.

Most of these mega leftist cities all have fake radical leftist judges

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, it's not. At all.

This view is the source of so much ill-conceived government regulation. If a company refuses to do what you want, they're not forcing anything on anyone. You (and in this case the municipalities looking for insurance for their police departments) don't have to do business with them. People really need to learn this.

Tell me, do you think the government should dictate terms to the insurance company instead? Does the insurance company have a right to say "no"?

It's not about rights, it's about insurance companies dictating by cost. Perfectly legal but also immoral because it gives them the ability to control police protocol since everybody opts for lower costs, More officers killed? Who cares, as long as you do things our way, you'll get cheaper rates.

 

[dblack]

It's not about rights, it's about insurance companies dictating by cost. Perfectly legal but also immoral because it gives them the ability to control police protocol since everybody opts for lower costs, More officers killed? Who cares, as long as you do things our way, you'll get cheaper rates.

I'm not really seeing why it's "immoral", but to be clear, you're not saying they should be forced to insure the cops, right?

 

[SavannahMann]

Bullshit. It's almost bribery. Do things our way and you get a discount on your insurance. Do things your way and it's more expensive That's not dictating?

Insurance rates are based upon risk for the rest of us. If you have a lot of accidents. Your insurance rates go up. If you get speeding tickets. Your insurance goes up.

A DUI will see your insurance skyrocket.

If you own a company and have a lot of accidents. Your business insurance will go up won’t it? The insurance company may require you to make some changes to continue the coverage.

Risk assessment is the reality we all face. And somehow this is unfair when applied to the police.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Insurance rates are based upon risk for the rest of us. If you have a lot of accidents. Your insurance rates go up. If you get speeding tickets. Your insurance goes up.

A DUI will see your insurance skyrocket.

If you own a company and have a lot of accidents. Your business insurance will go up won’t it? The insurance company may require you to make some changes to continue the coverage.

Risk assessment is the reality we all face. And somehow this is unfair when applied to the police.

True but this is more like risk transfer. Transfer the risk from the bad guy to the good guy which will result in more dead or seriously injured police officers.

 

[SavannahMann]

True but this is more like risk transfer. Transfer the risk from the bad guy to the good guy which will result in more dead or seriously injured police officers.

Actually. No.

This is nothing more than the same Risk Assessment that every other endeavor endures.

Things evolve. New techniques. New practices. New policies. All of these things are by design intended to reduce injuries and accidents.

Let’s take St. Ann and the pursuit policy as an example.

Their old policy was once a pursuit was joined it was never called off. If the pursuit ended in an accident with an injured or killed civilian. Well. That was just too bad.

Risking the civilians was a choice. A choice to have a high risk policy. One that resulted in a ton of lawsuits because of injuries and deaths. So the pursuit while it might catch a guy, and see him charged with felony refuse to stop or whatever the crime is there, resulted in millions in legal expenses.

If you were lucky the bystander wasn’t hurt badly. If you were unlucky it resulted in crippling injuries or death. Those resulted in even more expensive payouts.

So that pursuit got you a minor crook and a major expense in the best case.

Now. Other departments around the nation have long ago abandoned the pursuit at all costs policies. They did it because the risk to the civilians was too high. For those other departments the idea of injuring or killing a civilian over an idiot driving dangerously was intolerable. Additionally cops were injured and killed in pursuits too. And that means you lose a trained cop to a stupid accident.

So what the Insurance Company is doing is telling St. Ann to get with the times. Smarten up. So far this year. More than thirty cops have died in automobile accidents. In and out of pursuits. Almost as many as have been killed by gunfire.

So the cars are just about as dangerous as the guns in the hands of criminals to a cop.

Statistics. Statistics should tell you to protect your officers. Reduce the risk. Losing a cop to an idiotic accident is just as bad as losing him to a baddie with a gun.

So St. Ann had said the risk is worth it to us. Then they had to reconsider because the Insurance Company said we will drop you if you don’t join the rest of the departments across the nation and implement a sane pursuit policy.

Stop the high risk behavior.

The same thing you as an employer face if you have a pattern of injuries at your workplace. The same thing anyone faces.

For a long time Astronauts couldn’t get life insurance. Their work was so high risk that no insurance company would cover them. In time that changed. But it took time for the risk mitigation and experience to come into play.

Neil Armstrong Couldn't Afford Life Insurance, So He Used A Creative Way To Provide For His Family If He Died

www.businessinsider.com

So the cops face the same scrutiny as any other workplace. And everyone else has the same risk mitigation demands from their insurance companies. Doctors have similar restrictions. Demands that their care follow established guidelines from the AMA and FDA.

Why should cops be immune from such risk mitigation standards.

 

[surada]

For one your link is a paywall, two, I don't buy into conspiracy theories.

Right now cities across the country are having a hard time recruiting new police officers. The one time most desired job in the country is now the least desired job. I know, my city has been looking for new officers for the past year, and have few applicants. But it's happening all across the country. Satan is winning the war now.

Violent crimes on the rise in 2022, following previous unprecedented spike in murders

Data from major cities such as Baltimore, Chicago, Los Angeles, New York City, Philadelphia, Seattle and Washington, D.C, show there has been an increase in violent crimes this year compared to 2021.

www.foxnews.com

A Violent Crisis (Published 2022)

The Brooklyn shooting and other headline-making violence are part of a broader trend.

www.nytimes.com

Los Angeles Murders Are Up 35% in Two Years as Gun Violence Surges

www.bloomberg.com

Veteran officers are taking early retirement while those still working are leaving the profession or heading away from the big cities. As liberal law makers write policies that favor the criminal at the disadvantage of our police officers, they finally say to hell with it and give up. In San Francisco shoplifting is a misdemeanor unless the criminal steals more than $1000,00 of merchandise. The police won't even come out in many cases. It's so bad that all the Walgreen's closed up in the area because again, when you invite crime to your city, you're going to have more crime.

Police Officers Calling It Quits, Retiring Early at Alarming Rate

Police officers across the nation are turning in their badges at an alarming rate.

www.nbcbayarea.com

Cedar-Riverside residents say they feel the effects of MPD officer shortage - MinnPost

Residents say people openly sell and use drugs, lamenting that when they call in the criminal activity, the dealers are gone by the time the officers arrive.

www.minnpost.com

Police face rise in crime amid shortage of officers

Police forces struggle to recruit and keep officers.

spectrumlocalnews.com

Satan? You don't say.

 

[pknopp]

No - you claimed he could get away with murder. Do you have any evidence of that? Or is this just he usual socialist envy screed?

Let's use Bill Gates instead. His name is all over Epsteins flight logs. Many others with money are also. What is being done about that?

Nothing.

 

[dblack]

Let's use Bill Gates instead. His name is all over Epsteins flight logs. Many others with money are also. What is being done about that?

Nothing.

We're talking about Constitutional rights. The claim was made that rich people have more rights than the rest of us. That isn't true. They may be corrupt. They might commit crimes and not get caught. But the have the same rights under the law as the rest of us.

It's the typical confusion between equal rights and equal outcomes (or I think "social equity" is the latest buzzword). We need to understand that they are contradictory goals. If we have equal rights, we will have decidedly unequal outcomes. And, to the extent that we try to equalize outcomes, we will sacrifice equal rights.

 

[pknopp]

We're talking about Constitutional rights. The claim was made that rich people have more rights than the rest of us. That isn't true. They may be corrupt. They might commit crimes and not get caught. But the have the same rights under the law as the rest of us.

If I'm diddling kids, no one is going to cover that up for me.

It's the typical confusion between equal rights and equal outcomes (or I think "social equity" is the latest buzzword). We need to understand that they are contradictory goals. If we have equal rights, we will have unequal outcomes. And, to the extent that we try to equalize outcomes, we will sacrifice equal rights.

We don't have equal rights. This entire thing revolves around the idea that the police can freely violate our rights with impunity.