Income equality bull shit.

[healthmyths]

What a load of horse dung.
When jobs began moving to Mexico under Reagan you're gonna tell me Reagan couldn't humble the unions instead?
Bull crap.
We saw what he did to the Air Traffic Controllers...he destroyed their lives.
It's all about displacing the American worker.

tell that to the people of Wisconsin...
9.2% in 2009 to 6.5% 2013 a 29% drop...
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=

Tell that to the people of florida..
11.4% in 2009 to 4.7% in 2013 a 41% drop..
In common.. GOP governor.. smashing unions.. teachers especially!

 

[healthmyths]

I mean really..
"Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets.

In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay.
The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing.

 

[rightwinger]

I mean really..
"Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets.

In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay.
The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing.

I smell Bullshit

 

[Dutch]

Major, Major, part of the problem is right here. No one is held accountable. If you or I had done something like this would we have been givin a raise, let alone kept our job?

A year after an embarrassing trading blowup led to millions of dollars being docked from Jamie Dimon's paycheck, the chairman and chief executive of JPMorgan Chase is getting a raise.

JPMorgan's board voted this week to increase Mr. Dimon's annual compensation for 2013, hashing out the pay package after a series of meetings that turned heated at times, according to several executives briefed on the matter. The raise—the details were not made public on Thursday—follows a move by the board last year to slash Mr. Dimon's compensation by half, to $11.5 million.

The debate pitted a vocal minority of directors who wanted to keep his compensation largely flat, citing the approximately $20 billion in penalties JPMorgan has paid in the last year to federal authorities,

Fined Billions, JPMorgan Chase Will Give Dimon a Raise

 

[Erand7899]

Considering the number of unemployed and underemployed far exceeds that of the Conservative, I would suggest they pick another meme.

How about "Jobs for US Citizens"?
Nah! That would infringe on FREEDOM!

Unlike progressives we conservatives care more about the country and about our descendants than we do about winning elections. For people like you and those you vote for, the ends justify the means, all you care about is getting the win at all costs. You can keep that shit.

All Conservatives care about is their money; they don't give a damn about the US or their children.

Getting a little frustrated that your BS is not selling? I fully suspect that you don't know enough about conservatives to know what they do, or do not, give a damn about.

If you gave a damn about your children, you wouldn't be so willing to burden them with our debts.

If you gave a damn about this country, you wouldn't be so willing to sell it down the river for a few pretty beads.

 

[PredFan]

Lol, really?

What about when a giant company lobbies to make it mandatory for sellers (within their industry) to purchase expensive licenses every year to do business? You don't believe that sort of thing goes on? You don't think that might make it more difficult for the new guy to get started? Come on, DUDE.

Again, that isn't the only opportunity a available. That one door may be closed but it isn't the only door. Do I need to give you examples of success stories to counter your examples of opportunities that weren't obtainable? We could go on forever back and forth.

Opportunity is always there, it is no guarantee that you will always find it and always be successful. As I said, no one has the right to equality of outcome.

LOL - Pred I get that, and understand there are other opportunities available.

I'm simply saying that the closing of the door was completely unnecessary so lets get it open again! If there's no societal or practical need for the license that limits opportunity how about we do away with it? Why are you settling for less? It makes no sense.

All I did with that example was show one way that crony capitalism would impede opportunity. I never claimed it would fully eliminate it..

Ok, well, I agree that crony capitalism is bad and needs to be done away with. I still maintain that we have equality if opportunity.

 

[PredFan]

It is Capitalism and only Capitalism that promotes this type of inequality. Want some examples? Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan. In the 19th century these guys were called "Robber Barons". They exploited workers, crushed their competition by manipulating the market and ran rough shod over anyone opposing them. Once enough damage was done, once the wealth was sequestered American took steps to prevent it in the future. But once the monied interests got their man in the Oval Office back in the 1980s, we heard of what his successor called "Voodoo Economics" and the race was on.

It has happened before and so long as there is greed and a willfully ignorant group of political zealots whose information is spoon fed to them by those monied interests, it can happen again.

That wasn't "the system" it was men manipulating and corrupting the system.

There is nothing innate about Capitalism that protects the interest of those actually doing the producing. It protects the ownership class. Today, Conservatives dismiss labor unions. Because the labor union protects the workers. Today Conservatives champion the wealthy because the wealthy tell them that it is the wealthy who create jobs.

But today, the wealthy aren't wealthy because they themselves have created anything. They are wealthy not from earning, but from manipulating money to their advantage. Wasn't it at least noble that Carnegie and Rockefeller actually produced something? Today's wealthy only produce more wealth for themselves.

Wrong again. Capitalism protects no one.

 

[PredFan]

Supreme Court denies RNC bid to end voter fraud consent decree - Los Angeles Times



your cheating is court documented all the way to the SCOTUS

Are you retarded?

Probably just drunk.

 

[Bombur]

Obviously there are major differences in parenting and many parents work very hard to give their children the best opportunity possible given their means.

There will never be absolute equality of opportunity.

 

[Jarhead]

Obviously there are major differences in parenting and many parents work very hard to give their children the best opportunity possible given their means.

There will never be absolute equality of opportunity.

true....but not as you may meant it

As a parent, I believe giving less to assist the child will open a vast amount of opportunities for that child.

I gave mine advice and an example to follow.....but as it pertains to materialistic thing?

He got nothing. Not a dime.

He is now 27 and making a bit more than 100K and on a path to greater things.

 

[KevinWestern]

Again, that isn't the only opportunity a available. That one door may be closed but it isn't the only door. Do I need to give you examples of success stories to counter your examples of opportunities that weren't obtainable? We could go on forever back and forth.

Opportunity is always there, it is no guarantee that you will always find it and always be successful. As I said, no one has the right to equality of outcome.

LOL - Pred I get that, and understand there are other opportunities available.

I'm simply saying that the closing of the door was completely unnecessary so lets get it open again! If there's no societal or practical need for the license that limits opportunity how about we do away with it? Why are you settling for less? It makes no sense.

All I did with that example was show one way that crony capitalism would impede opportunity. I never claimed it would fully eliminate it..

Ok, well, I agree that crony capitalism is bad and needs to be done away with. I still maintain that we have equality if opportunity.

Equality of opportunity implies that people succeed based on their merits, only. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with you in that not everyone starts off "the same" and it might be the case that Person A has to work a million times harder and overcome a hundred more obstacles than Person B to arrive at the skill level necessary to become a Professor at a University. That's just life, I get it.

But what do you call it when Person B gets the job anyways - despite not being anywhere near as qualified as person A - because "his uncle donated $50,000 to the college"?

Is that still truly equality of opportunity? I don't think so. Not saying I know how to fix it, I'm just calling it like it is.

 

[Bombur]

Obviously there are major differences in parenting and many parents work very hard to give their children the best opportunity possible given their means.

There will never be absolute equality of opportunity.

true....but not as you may meant it

As a parent, I believe giving less to assist the child will open a vast amount of opportunities for that child.

I gave mine advice and an example to follow.....but as it pertains to materialistic thing?

He got nothing. Not a dime.

He is now 27 and making a bit more than 100K and on a path to greater things.

and some kids are Waltons.

I applaud you for teaching your kid the value of hard work and earning things for themselves. Not all parents are made the same. Not all kids are made the same.

 

[Borillar]

So, the "problem" as you see it is that people like Oprah and Beyonce have tons of money and you have very little. Have you asked them to send some to you?

No, the problem is that when wealth is controlled by a few, we get an Oligarchy. The masses then start reaching for the pitchforks and torches and storm the Bastille. As I have stated before, it is amusing when you guys call Obama a socialist when he is nothing of the sort. He is a corporatist, just like every president. If Obama's a socialist, then he is the worst socialist that ever walked the earth.

obama is not a true socialist, he is as marxist collectivist. Nationalizing industry (healthcare) is a marxist collectivist mandate.

Oh, obviously. Every industrialized country in the world that provides health care to its citizens is a Marxist collective.

 

[Dutch]

I mean really..
"Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets.

In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay.
The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing.

Why do you hate these people for trying to earn money? You guys have no problem when a CEO retires or gets fired with a 30 million dollar buyout but by god if some Union guy earns 5 more dollars than you it's an outrage.

The sad thing is that those CEO's are laughing as we fight over someone making 20 dollars an hour vs 30 dollars an hour. They want the middle class at each others throats because they can go on raping this country while no one notices.

 

[Jarhead]

Obviously there are major differences in parenting and many parents work very hard to give their children the best opportunity possible given their means.

There will never be absolute equality of opportunity.

true....but not as you may meant it

As a parent, I believe giving less to assist the child will open a vast amount of opportunities for that child.

I gave mine advice and an example to follow.....but as it pertains to materialistic thing?

He got nothing. Not a dime.

He is now 27 and making a bit more than 100K and on a path to greater things.

and some kids are Waltons.

I applaud you for teaching your kid the value of hard work and earning things for themselves. Not all parents are made the same. Not all kids are made the same.

and not all kids listen.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

It's an election year and we will be hearing a lot if bull shit. No bigger pile of crap than "income equality" or lack thereof.

While we should have equality of opportunity (and we do), no one has a right to equality of outcome. The outcome of your opportunity is entirely up to you.

This whole issue is nothing but "spreading the wealth around" rehashed. Obama and the democrats didn't do anything about income equality in the first 5 years, in fact the gap has gotten worse, so they think that if they call it something else they can repackage it and sell it to the sheeple again and they will buy it. They have no real plan to do anything about it but campaign on it.

Equality of opportunity - free capitalist society
Equality of outcome - oppressive socialist society

Socialism rests upon Relativism.

Relativism rejects Objectivity.

Objectivity is essential to truth, trust, morality and justice.

Therefore, it is an axiomatic certainty that where you find socialism, you will find unchecked, all of the human frailties: wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony; which are readily manifested in unchecked corruption.

Now understand the bassackward nature of the conventional wisdom, which is rife throughout this board.

CW says that the 'inequality of outcome is due to capitalism'.

Yet Capitalism is nothing more than the free exchange of goods and services to the mutual profit of both parties.

Meaning that where the principles of nature, espoused through the dreaded Judea-Christianity (and wholly rejected by the socialists) are adhered to, wherein both parties bear their responsibility to trade in good faith and to not exercise their right to trade to the detriment of the means of another to do the same, then there is no chance that there will be any inequity, as both parties profit.

Judea-Christianity calls for the disciplining of one's natural traits. Socialism rejects any such discipline, covertly encouraging the promotion of human weakness.

Judea-Christianity calls for honesty in all bargains and professions. Socialism being relativist, rejects the soundly reasoned absolute which defines truth, thus socialism has no means to produce an honest bargain.

And so on.

Point being that there is nothing extreme about Capitalism or Judea-Christianity, from which American Principle is drawn. And there is nothing right about socialism, with the former representing the solution, and the latter: THE PROBLEM!

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I mean really..
"Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets.

In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay.
The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing.

Why do you hate these people for trying to earn money? You guys have no problem when a CEO retires or gets fired with a 30 million dollar buyout but by god if some Union guy earns 5 more dollars than you it's an outrage.

The sad thing is that those CEO's are laughing as we fight over someone making 20 dollars an hour vs 30 dollars an hour. They want the middle class at each others throats because they can go on raping this country while no one notices.

We don't have a problem with anyone earning a living. We have a problem with bargains that are made in bad faith. Socialized Labor, OKA: Unions, bargain in bad faith, holding the collective workforce hostage.

The example given provides that a highly productive individual, is paid X... . But the value only represents the specific scheme of production.

You people speak endlessly of fairness, yet there is rarely a point of true 'fairness' EVER advocated by you.

CEOs work damn near around the clock. When your union shift ends, guess who is still working. When you get to work, guess who's BEEN AT WORK long before you got there.

You THINK you know what being a Chief Executive Officer is, but in truth, you haven't the slightest clue.

Here's just a little clue: Without a highly effective CEO, there would be no work for you people to DO. No contracts to fill, thus no money with which to over-pay you.

 

[PredFan]

Obviously there are major differences in parenting and many parents work very hard to give their children the best opportunity possible given their means.

There will never be absolute equality of opportunity.

That isn't the kind of opportunity I'm talking about.

 

[Bombur]

Obviously there are major differences in parenting and many parents work very hard to give their children the best opportunity possible given their means.

There will never be absolute equality of opportunity.

That isn't the kind of opportunity I'm talking about.

What do you think the different kinds of opportunities being talked about are?

 

[PredFan]

LOL - Pred I get that, and understand there are other opportunities available.

I'm simply saying that the closing of the door was completely unnecessary so lets get it open again! If there's no societal or practical need for the license that limits opportunity how about we do away with it? Why are you settling for less? It makes no sense.

All I did with that example was show one way that crony capitalism would impede opportunity. I never claimed it would fully eliminate it..

Ok, well, I agree that crony capitalism is bad and needs to be done away with. I still maintain that we have equality if opportunity.

Equality of opportunity implies that people succeed based on their merits, only. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with you in that not everyone starts off "the same" and it might be the case that Person A has to work a million times harder and overcome a hundred more obstacles than Person B to arrive at the skill level necessary to become a Professor at a University. That's just life, I get it.

But what do you call it when Person B gets the job anyways - despite not being anywhere near as qualified as person A - because "his uncle donated $50,000 to the college"?

Is that still truly equality of opportunity? I don't think so. Not saying I know how to fix it, I'm just calling it like it is.

No, equality of opportunity only means that the opportunity is there for all. There is no guarantee of success even if someone works hard.

As for your example I'd say you go where the job is. You have a degree now, so you didn't get that teaching job, there are other universities, other opportunities.